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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: islandtees on January 06, 2015, 09:30:15 PM
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Im getting one to check out. We use Newman M3 and MZX frames. Wondering who has both and would you give up one for the other?
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I find the shurlocs just easier to deal with. I only have a couple M3s and I don't even use them. As much as I would like to be the shop that retensions their screens after every reclaim to keep them consistent across the board, it isn't happening for me and the shurlocs hold their tension very well and are far lighter than the M3s and MZXs. I will be looking to get some bigger ones down the road (25x36s and possibly some bigger specialty screens) . I would think that if you are the type of control freak that we would all like to have and retension consistently to keep everything on tract, then Newmans would be the way to go IMO, but if you want lighter, square (frame) and good tension, then I would think you are going to be more than happy with the 125s. Also if you go the way of shurlocs, don't let the bow of the frame freak you out after stretching. It did me, but it was of no concern.
~Ryan
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We recently got another dozen of the Shur-Loc in, and I'm not sure we'll be getting anymore rollers really, these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
Steve
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Thanks for the replys.
What tension do they normally start at?
Do they hold that tension after repeated reclaims?
I have seen posts saying they poped the screen stretching them on the frame. Have you had any problems?
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these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
This is 100% correct.. and that is the problem this industry faces when all one cares about it how easy or fast something is.
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these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
This is 100% correct.. and that is the problem this industry faces when all one cares about it how easy or fast something is.
Do you use easy frames or Newmans? What are your thoughts?
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these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
This is 100% correct.. and that is the problem this industry faces when all one cares about it how easy or fast something is.
Do you use easy frames or Newmans? What are your thoughts?
Our company has over 750 28x38 ezframes and yeah they're easy and fast. Faster than any static frame i've ever made and you never touch it again till the mesh break or falls to low in tension to be usable.
I've used roller frames for 25 years with more success than one can imagine. Was it easy, not one bit. It was work through and through to make and maintain all those frames over the years.
my thoughts.. a static frame is nothing but a waste of money on our end and a huge profit maker for the suppliers who sell and re-mesh those frames.
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these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
This is 100% correct.. and that is the problem this industry faces when all one cares about it how easy or fast something is.
Do you use easy frames or Newmans? What are your thoughts?
Our company has over 750 28x38 ezframes and yeah they're easy and fast. Faster than any static frame i've ever made and you never touch it again till the mesh break or falls to low in tension to be usable.
I've used roller frames for 25 years with more success than one can imagine. Was it easy, not one bit. It was work through and through to make and maintain all those frames over the years.
my thoughts.. a static frame is nothing but a waste of money on our end and a huge profit maker for the suppliers who sell and re-mesh those frames.
Those are big frames. Do you use any 23x31 frames? If so, are they rollers or ez frames?
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these things are just too easy (meaning fast)...
This is 100% correct.. and that is the problem this industry faces when all one cares about it how easy or fast something is.
I get what you're saying, but I don't really need to hear it. I've been printing t's for a very long time, longer than a lot of members have been alive actually. I've printed with stapled mesh and rollers, and there is no doubt about the wonders of high tension on the fabric. But since we're not printing reproductions of the Sistine Chapel or the like, getting good tight screens in less time is a plus, I'm sorry it doesn't fit in with your personal philosophy. Our work does not suffer because of it, our customers are very happy with our quality, and continue to return. We are also extraordinarily nice to them.
Steve
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I wasn't taking to you steve, just using the words to make a point.
No we don't have any 23x31 sized frames, only these monster sized screens. The only difference is just the size, the techniques to make any frame is the same.
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Anyone on the starting newtons when stretched. How about after reclaiming a couple times?
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Depends on the mesh count but we are generally 35-ish or more after adding a new panel and above 30 after several cycles. We have a some that have been in production over a year that are still in the 30-ish range.
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Once mesh on Newmans are work hardened, only after a few runs, the mesh should stay that way at 30n or 40n for
most of the life in that screen. A little more time up front, but more stable over time- years if handled properly.
Then can be tweeked if needed. I say just enough to let it (the mesh) know I'm here.
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I'll say this having used the Shurloc EZ frames, the regular ones for years, then rollers for years: The Shurlocs are a good compromise between newman rollers and statics, but they're still a compromise but with the right mesh they aren't as much of a compromise as with standard mesh. Another thing I'm very confident in saying is the extra time spent maintaining some roller frames pales in comparison to the time they save in virtually every area where we spend time. They will get rid of so many issues that the average print shop has and no matter of arguing with me is going to change that FACT, it's not an opinion. To get around some of those issues using better mesh counts on non-retensionables helps a lot, but they still don't touch the productivity levels you'll have all-around and long term that you get with a retensionable frame. Don't take this personal who this comment touches, but those that say they don't have time to deal with roller frames aren't taking into account all the benefits they provide, especially labor/time savings. They are just looking at as if the roller frames won't do anything but add maintenance time to the entire process, which isn't true AT ALL. The roller frame with smart mesh counts is the ultimate in screen printing performance and that's all there is to it. Whether or not you like to use that combo or something else is fine by me, I've said it many times, you can get from point A to B many different ways and as long as your customers are happy then that's the most important thing. And you have to be making enough money to make the effort worthwhile.
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I've been a pretty die hard newman guy for the last few years..... But with my coming expansion I'm needing around 800 screens in my inventory it's harder to justify that up front cost for the newmans. I have 16 shurloc frames coming along with s mesh panels for all of them that I will put into production next week. If anyone is curious as to what my thoughts are send me a PM after next week and I'll share my findings but I have high hopes that the shurloc frame w/ thin thread will be every bit as good as my newmans.
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Anyone on the starting newtons when stretched. How about after reclaiming a couple times?
Like GN stated, it's dependent on the mesh and the technique used to get the mesh to it's initial tension. The manufacturers specify what the optimum tension is for their mesh, check their website for the information or call them for tech questions.
With roller frames the two techniques used are the manual roll one tube at a time and the automatic pneumatic roller table that rolls all 4 tubes at once for instant stabilization.
When using the 1 tube method you are pulling the mesh in 4 different directions at different times, due to this you need to allow some time between initial tensioning to allow the mesh knuckles to flatten and stabilize. Before introducing the frame to production, it's better to re-tension 1 or 2 times after the initial tension/relax period bringing the tension up in stages. you'll have to work harden the screen with 3-5 more re-tension before the mesh completely stabilizes for daily production use.
With the all-at-once method using a special pneumatic table the mesh is pulled with equal force on all sides stabilizing the mesh almost instantly. You can bring the mesh up to 125% of the maximum tension on the first pull, lock all the bolts and put that frame into production immediately. The mesh will relax slightly, then after 2-3 more re-tensions the screen will last for years with minimal re-tension along the way.
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I've been a pretty die hard newman guy for the last few years..... But with my coming expansion I'm needing around 800 screens in my inventory it's harder to justify that up front cost for the newmans.
The market is flooded with used frames in the $25-30 range, so go that route first and then fill in the holes later with new frames.
I know when you order more than 500 new frames, you have some wiggle room on price.
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Anyone on the starting newtons when stretched. How about after reclaiming a couple times?
Like GN stated, it's dependent on the mesh and the technique used to get the mesh to it's initial tension. The manufacturers specify what the optimum tension is for their mesh, check their website for the information or call them for tech questions.
With roller frames the two techniques used are the manual roll one tube at a time and the automatic pneumatic roller table that rolls all 4 tubes at once for instant stabilization.
When using the 1 tube method you are pulling the mesh in 4 different directions at different times, due to this you need to allow some time between initial tensioning to allow the mesh knuckles to flatten and stabilize. Before introducing the frame to production, it's better to re-tension 1 or 2 times after the initial tension/relax period bringing the tension up in stages. you'll have to work harden the screen with 3-5 more re-tension before the mesh completely stabilizes for daily production use.
With the all-at-once method using a special pneumatic table the mesh is pulled with equal force on all sides stabilizing the mesh almost instantly. You can bring the mesh up to 125% of the maximum tension on the first pull, lock all the bolts and put that frame into production immediately. The mesh will relax slightly, then after 2-3 more re-tensions the screen will last for years with minimal re-tension along the way.
Sorry, I should have specified I was talking about Easy Frames. I have M3 frames and understand the stretching tech on them.
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First chance to check back since last night, and agree with Alan and John (maybe I took it slightly personally, but I did edit a couple of times before posting) I do see those benefits, but they don't show up here, probably because of the way we do things (ya think?) However, we are going through a number of changes to tighten up all of our processes and systems, and will probably revisit it all again, because quality printing always comes first, and anything that improves that without denting the bottom line is what we want to do. In the end, I guess the OP will have to do the testing to see if it works for him. And for what it matters, the best printing work I've seen was by Mark Coudray, with rollers at 25N; I'm not completely sold on the appreciable advantages of the extra 5, 10 or 15 Newtons...
Steve