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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: screenprintguy on September 09, 2011, 08:18:59 PM
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I got an email with an ad video for a new discharge base and pre-mix white from Ryonet. Anyone try this yet? The video shows it to be a lot nicer to work with than matsui pre-mix white. I also noticed their product item number starting with cc-, think this is a private labeled CCI product?
Thanks guys
Mike
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We tested that ink for them a few months ago. Results were pretty good, the only issue we had was that it was a little stanky, at least more than our current bases... You should hit up Ryonet for a sample. I am sure they will send you some amount free of charge... It is a private label. I forgot who was making it, but it is CCI or IC or something...
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Thanks for the info Dan! What discharge are you finding to be the best/easiest to work with? We are still new to the water based system, our customer base is loving it and we see ourselves doing alot more of it in the near future, but the white has been a huge issue. I have found the Matusui pre-mix white, mixing it several different ways that other printers have advised still mixing up like ricotta cheese in texture, then clogging mesh of all types. The best result that I've had with the white so far was adding so much water to make it creamy that it really made a mess on the auto. I add print gen to the mix as well but we still end up with a chunky mix after a while. I could deal with a lil stank if the ink stayed creamy, flowed nice, didn't clump in the screen, and had a sweet finish to it. Thanks for the info Dan!
Mike
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Their Plastisol inks are from IC.
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I was just in a discharge white thread on TSF in the last couple of weeks. Is it cool for me to post a link to a thread from another forum on here?
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I think that in this instance it would be fine. Certainly better than the copy and paste posts that seem to keep some places going.
What we don't want are links to negative crap, or inter forum intrigue.
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Thanks for the info Dan! What discharge are you finding to be the best/easiest to work with? We are still new to the water based system, our customer base is loving it and we see ourselves doing alot more of it in the near future, but the white has been a huge issue. I have found the Matusui pre-mix white, mixing it several different ways that other printers have advised still mixing up like ricotta cheese in texture, then clogging mesh of all types. The best result that I've had with the white so far was adding so much water to make it creamy that it really made a mess on the auto. I add print gen to the mix as well but we still end up with a chunky mix after a while. I could deal with a lil stank if the ink stayed creamy, flowed nice, didn't clump in the screen, and had a sweet finish to it. Thanks for the info Dan!
Mike
Hey Mike,
It's all in the mixing technique and knowing that 301 bases and white inks don't like the activator and are known to clump. You need to compensate for the lack of moisture in the whites with clear bases and water.
The best stand alone white ive made to date uses Matsui's Discharge Brite White with Discharge Brite base at 50/50 or 60/40 mix and 5% activator.
When I add the activator, I add it to a small cup of water = to 3% ink weight first, swirl it around till it dissolves and then add that to the ink and stir. It won't clump and is one of the brightest whites you've seen. For problem shirt colors use the 60/40 mix and p-f-p for a really brite white.
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Hey Mike,
Yes, it is CCI. Good stuff. But Matsui is great as well. However, with the CCI inks you only have to use 3% activator. And I agree with John about the discharge white and the discharge base mix. But to avoid any "clumps" we mix the white/base and any pigments first, then the fixer, anything else such as water, and then dead last the activator. If doing large runs just mix a gallon or whatever you need and then before going to press add the activator. Have fun!
- Brandon
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Ryonet isn't the only distributor private labeling CCI's discharge base and white and activator. I'm not a fan of their white as a stand alone, but have been using the base/white in combination for UBing plastisol with good results, very easy to print. The activator works well with other brands of ink as well.
My vote for stand alone white is Rutland White Plus (straight out of the bucket w/6% activator), prints easy and it looks great even after dozens of washings which is more than I can say for some other brands of discharge white.
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Thanks Guys! I have gone to diluting the activator in water before mixing in, mixing brite base, pre-mix white, and print gen first, then adding the diluted activator. After about 20 seconds the whole mix starts to tighten up almost like the activator activating the white part of the mix starts to seize. Then I'll add more water little more print gen, but no matter how smooth the mix starts, I keep ending up with this ricotta cheese type texture, it's a real P.I.T.A. The last run we did with white, I had to make it so watery I couldn't back flood or it was starting to drip through the mesh. I'm not giving up on it, just trying to find my even ground, my customers are all over the prints so I really need to perfect my white. All other pigment mixes have worked out awesome. I haven't had any seizing of discharge mixed with other pigments, just the white mix. That's the only reason I asked about this advertisement, he makes it seem like it's a ready to go issue free mix, but we all know he's a good video salesman so until you have it in the shop you really don't know. I'm going to ask my guys at SPA what other white they are carrying and I'll email someone at RY to see if they can send a sample. I'd like to just get what I have here working and stay with one system. Practice makes perfect right! Thanks again for all the pointers guys!
Mike
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Thanks Guys! I have gone to diluting the activator in water before mixing in, mixing brite base, pre-mix white, and print gen first, then adding the diluted activator. After about 20 seconds the whole mix starts to tighten up almost like the activator activating the white part of the mix starts to seize. Then I'll add more water little more print gen, but no matter how smooth the mix starts, I keep ending up with this ricotta cheese type texture,
You might want to check and see if the pre-print white is discharge compatible. Not all whites can be discharged.
You need to use Brite Discharge Base and Discharge White DSFP or other brand specific discharge white and your problem will go away.
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yeah this is the the Matsui pre-mix white discharge, smells like fiberglass resin. I'll be doing more this week and prayin to have better luck with the mix. Now, with that said, both gallons of the pre-mix white I have been using out of, I got from Ryonet, I'll get some from SPA this week and see if there is any difference in what comes in the bucket because both of those buckets came with their own label on them that say eco series ryonet pre-mix white matsu.
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yeah this is the the Matsui pre-mix white discharge, smells like fiberglass resin. I'll be doing more this week and prayin to have better luck with the mix. Now, with that said, both gallons of the pre-mix white I have been using out of, I got from Ryonet, I'll get some from SPA this week and see if there is any difference in what comes in the bucket because both of those buckets came with their own label on them that say eco series ryonet pre-mix white matsu.
Ok.
Could just be bad ink.
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So somewhere along the line I think Matsui changed the formula for their pre-mixed discharge white, cause the last couple gallons I've used smelled like fiberglass resin as well. It used to stink a bit, but not this bad. Also, it used to mix a bit smoother and had a slightly longer pot life before gumming up.
I'm trying out the Ryonet (CCI) pre-mix white and clear and I must say it's much better, especially printing manually. For just doing single color white prints on black I did a 75% white/25% clear mix with 4% activator, and about 3% water. Prints with one sharp easy stroke.
I'll post again when I get some more time with it.
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Sorry guys, I signed off for the weekend after my last post... Here's that TSF thread, we started talking about emulsion, then got into discharge, same subject:
http://www.t-shirtforums.com/water-based-ink-screen-printing/t152096.html (http://www.t-shirtforums.com/water-based-ink-screen-printing/t152096.html)
jsheridans info up above is excellent help too. The only thing I could add to what he said is try dissolving that activator down in the same quantity of warm water...
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Dan, thanks for the link and info. I have ordered some of the CCI/Ryo white discharge to try, and well as actual, Brite White Discharge Matsui from SPA to compare with the pre-mix white discharge Matsui that I had gotten from Ryo. Praying for good results. We have gotten our exposure issue knocked out by upgrading to a 10,000 watt SolarBeam Richmond unit, let me tell you, that sucker exposes like a beast!!!! Now, we just have to nail down the clumpy ricotta white issue. Once we have those, we will be alot happier and more comfortable setting up and running these w/b jobs. We had been burning a second set of back up screens as well, hopefully the new exposures will limit how many extra screens needed. Customers are all over it and we stopped the push for now but they keep coming and I'm not going to turn it down, just work through the issues. Thanks for all the help guys!
Mike
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That's awesome Mike!!! I think if you follow the advice from jsheridan and what I wrote further down in that TSF thread, you will find some relief from the ricotta. I'm not afraid to spend money experimenting with inks, so if you feel comfortable with the expenditure, I'd say invest in a little Rutland discharge base too to experiment with... I am a little envious of your exposure unit admittedly! Good luck and keep us posted!
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We got a super sick deal on this exposure unit from an aerospace lab, so even though it's used, it is in new condition as they used it to expose circuit boards and it never got beat up in a dirty reclaiming screen printers area ;D, what a blessing!!!!, I might do that with the Rutland, it's worth the investment to us for the R&D of this method. If we end up with a couple of different products to pull off the final products that we are looking for, we are all about it. You know as well as anyone how time sucking issues can stress out the work place. As my friend Tanner Smith said, hey Mike find what works best for your shop to prevent such a "butt puckering" process, hahahaha.
1 thing I did want to ask you, what do you do for blocking out screens for w/b. I've taken a few other's idea of using the very same emulsion, block out for pin holes and uncoated screen areas, then expose once dry. PMI used our shop last month and our friends at Real Thread Orlando to do some adheasive testing and they have increased the aggressiveness of their tapes now to keep the water from making it's way under the tape, yet still having the easy removal property that they have always had. But, I know that once a pin hole that could have been made comes up, no tape can stop it. Have a great weekend Dan! I'll report all of the progress as we work to nail this whole thing down.
Have a great weekend all!!!!
Mike
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Yes, we have about 5 different bases on hand. Some we've ordered to test, some have been sent to us to test, some our our daily go to bases, etc... We like to have different ones around because they all behave differently, our stellar mix with base 1 will work on 95% of the garments we produce, and then sometimes you get a real stubborn garment - in those cases, dependent on volume, we may try to mix down with other bases just to get it to work... We have Jantex, Matsui, Rutland, Ryonet, Wilflex, and maybe one or two others, but we order and use Matsui mainly.
Tape's a big one, we've tried and searched and had to make changes when adhesives change or costs change, and we use a TON of it to prohibit the water base issues... You have to figure out all gaps where the water can get under and start breaking the adhesion, you have to tape and overlap in certain directions and in a certain order to prevent the squeegee from pulling the tape up, etc. We currently use the Newman 3" clear tape from Stretch Devices. We were using some stuff from Ryonet that was about half the price, but the adhesive proved nearly impossible to get off during washout... For quick pinhole fixes, nail polish will help you "nail" down the process! We've never messed with any of those block out pens or anything...
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We have gotten our exposure issue knocked out by upgrading to a 10,000 watt SolarBeam Richmond unit, let me tell you, that sucker exposes like a beast!!!!
We've had a 10K Solarbeam for 15+ yrs, it has been a fantastic unit and is built like a tank. You're going to love making screens with it!
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Ok, R&D part 1---
Ok so, putting aside the pre-mix white discharge that I already had here. SPA sent me a quart of Matsui -Brite-White-premix discharge. As instructed, I measured out 300 grams to test with, did a 6% activator diluted into a 10% addition of water, mixed that diluted activator into the brite white discharge ink. As I began mixing, it began clumping and stiffening as usual within seconds. I then began adding a bit more water until I acheived the nice creamy mix. It still held chucks, just like a cottage/ricotta cheese. Now, I will say, that by mixing this, by itself, without adding any brite base, as I had done in the past, was alot easier to work with, and did not get gritty in texture. I let it sit to activate, and manually printed a bunch of shirts. It stayed clumpy on press, but, did not lock in screens and stayed a nice creamy, yet clumpy mix. Discharged awesome, bright white prints after curing, better than when I would do the 50% premix white and 50% brite base mix in the past. This, I could deal with as I feel the squeegee on the auto would break those clumps up in a larger run.
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I also ordered a gallon of the Ryonet/CCI bright white pre-mix discharge white. I wanted to do it just as Ryan did in his video. I mixed 6% activator, using Matsui activator powder, directly into 300 grams of the ink. I mixed up smooth, stayed loose, no water to loosen the mix needed, and the crystals seemed to dilute on their own in the ink instantly. I let it sit, came back to it, whipped it up more, didn't take much effort and it was smooth like white pudding. Put it in the same screen that I had just done the other white in. Prints came out just as bright, if not whiter, I had no clumping what so ever, had a fully opaque mix not having to add any water to keep it smooth and consistent. I feel a bit of printgen wouldn't hurt when using on the auto, but it printed sweet, and was alot easier to work with than the Matsui mix done an hour earlier. I will next do a mix trying 50% of this Ryo discharge white, and brite base, to see what kind of outcome we have. I think most like to do the 50/50 mix to spread the white out and conserve since it's a higher cost than the plain base. All in all, from this small test, I would say that we will steer towards this CCI bright white discharge over the Matsui, just from the ease and consistency that it had from mix to print, to re-potting. Like Dan said, it did have a little more stink to it than the Matsui white, but, all of the other discharge based pigment mixes that we set up with Matsui smell the same, so that isn't going to be a factor at all, bottom line, most of this stuff STANKS!! =-).
So far, what I know about purchasing Rutland inks locally here, I would have to use a distributor that we really don't want to buy from, so until we can find another seller of that product, I'm holding off on that test, although I would like to see if it out performs what we see to be a better choice for us in the CCI discharge white.
I'll post some pics of the mixes and the final prints when I get a chance.
Mike
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That's an awesome report! I have no idea what could be causing your issues with the clumping still...
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Both examples are direct from the bucket, no adding of brite base. Both mixed to spec, in fact the sui mix needed additional water to make it mixable.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/5571c.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/5571c) This is the Matsui bright white premix white discharge, with water diluted activator after mixing for at least 5 minutes and adding another dose of water. Notices the ricotta/cottage cheese clumps I keep talking about.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/37cb3.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/37cb3) This is the CCI/Ryonet bright white premixed discharge white with the activator powder mixed directly in, no water. Very smooth, very creamy, stayed nice and loose, but not loose enough to fall through 110 mesh.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/f9d80.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/f9d80) This is the sui white after a dozen or so prints, still clumpy, you can see the streeks from the clumps when flooding.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/0abab.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/0abab) This is the sui white poored to screen right after mixing.
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/t/861a8.jpg) (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/861a8) The cci/ryo white on screen after a couple dozen prints.
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There's something wrong with that Matsui base I think... Have all your tests with this clumpy mixture been from the same bucket, and if so, how old is that bucket? Ours never looks like that, it always mixes out like your pic of the Ryo inks... Ohhhh. Here's a big one I never thought to ask. How are you mixing? Are you using a jiffy mixer? If not, it's a must and you should buy one today and use it.
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How are you mixing?
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Doh! Dan beat me to it.
Also, it bears mentioning, if buckets aren't filled completely you can have issues with evaporation
which may or may not be fixable with additional water.
Also, where in the country are you located?
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Uh...don't mix the activator with water before you add it to the ink. You're just asking for trouble.
Here's my fool proof ritual for the Matsui white:
(all amounts are mixed by weight)
75% pre-mix white discharge
25% brite discharge base
Mix
Add 3% Fixer N
Add 3% Printgen C softener (if printing 230 or higher mesh counts)
Mix
Add 1-3% water
Mix WELL
Add 5% activator
Mix VERY WELL
Let stand 3-5 minutes
Mix well
The only way to get it all from clumping is to make sure the activator is the VERY last thing added after all other additives, pigments, water, etc and nothing else.
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Not dissing the Matsui products but I like simple.........CCI white plus a little water now and then.
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Everything that you guys are mentioning have been done over and over with the same exact result. Mixing the agent direct, or diluted same thing, only mixing the agent direct ended with a grit to the texture. This mix of matsui was from a brand new bucket just delivered yesterday from a different distributor than the last pre mix whites that we have got in the past. Trust me when I say, every person leaving a comment with instructions, minus a few that don't post on this board, I have tried everyone's methods only to get the same result. Now you can see why it's been so frustrating. 5 people can say no no, mix the activator by itself into the mix, 5 others will say no no no, dilute it first, matsui will say yes, dilute the activator for white. The bottom line is, its' all coming out the same. I actually thought last night, man, what if there is something in our water here that is making that clumping happen. I'll try a mix today using distilled water. My wife is laughing at me because she's like how many different methods are you going to keep trying and getting the same mix result. When I say we have had to add a ton of water to get it loose, man, it almost seems to double the amount of the mix and still ends up as in the pics. I'll see what the distilled water has to do vs the tap water. Again though, Jason, John, Dan, Tony, all you guys, I really appreciate everyone wanting to help me out. I've been trying to get time to run over to Pat's at Real Thread since all he does is W/B printing and shadow him for a few hours, it's just been, thankfully, too busy to leave.
Mike
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I've been using Matsui bright and premix whites and the premix white has a super strong odor. I ordered a gallon of Union's premix white and base but haven't printed with them yet but will post back results. First thing I did notice when opening the clear base is the different consistency, very clear and thin/watery compared to matsui bright. AND the ODOR of the Union bright base.....BUBBLE GUM SCENTED! Initial thoughts on scent is that it could be good or bad, won't really know until it fills the shop and draws in the neighborhood kids like the Pied Piper lol.
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That scent is not uncommon. It is used in many products and is classified as an odorant. Typically added to mask unpleasant scents. Sorry but the clumping has me stumped though the water might be possible. The only time I ever encountered this was accidental freezing. I've literally used every discharge ink around for decades and have not had those issues. I understand that some reps and end users suggest dilluting but I have to say it is totally unnecessary.
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Yeah I haven't ever diluted the premix matsui white. It is very thick and locks up when you add the agent, but if you let it sit it loosens back up on its own.
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Everything that you guys are mentioning have been done over and over with the same exact result. Mixing the agent direct, or diluted same thing, only mixing the agent direct ended with a grit to the texture. This mix of matsui was from a brand new bucket just delivered yesterday from a different distributor than the last pre mix whites that we have got in the past. Trust me when I say, every person leaving a comment with instructions, minus a few that don't post on this board, I have tried everyone's methods only to get the same result. Now you can see why it's been so frustrating. 5 people can say no no, mix the activator by itself into the mix, 5 others will say no no no, dilute it first, matsui will say yes, dilute the activator for white. The bottom line is, its' all coming out the same. I actually thought last night, man, what if there is something in our water here that is making that clumping happen. I'll try a mix today using distilled water. My wife is laughing at me because she's like how many different methods are you going to keep trying and getting the same mix result. When I say we have had to add a ton of water to get it loose, man, it almost seems to double the amount of the mix and still ends up as in the pics. I'll see what the distilled water has to do vs the tap water. Again though, Jason, John, Dan, Tony, all you guys, I really appreciate everyone wanting to help me out. I've been trying to get time to run over to Pat's at Real Thread since all he does is W/B printing and shadow him for a few hours, it's just been, thankfully, too busy to leave.
Mike
I would contact the distributor and let them know what's going on (and maybe get a refund/replacement).
In the meantime, call CCI and order some white. That's what I am switching over to once the Matsui I have on hand is exhausted.
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To add more fuel to the fire, be sure that your drill or whatever your mixing with is on the highest
speed possible.
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And some of you wonder why us plastisol guys haven't been all that eager to make the switch :) Seriously though, that is a little intimidating when we are so used to flinging ink into a screen and being done with it. I'll be ordering this CCI stuff in the next week or so and give it a whirl on some of our white only designs.
(all amounts are mixed by weight)
75% pre-mix white discharge
25% brite discharge base
Mix
Add 3% Fixer N
Add 3% Printgen C softener (if printing 230 or higher mesh counts)
Mix
Add 1-3% water
Mix WELL
Add 5% activator
Mix VERY WELL
Let stand 3-5 minutes
Mix well
The only way to get it all from clumping is to make sure the activator is the VERY last thing added after all other additives, pigments, water, etc and nothing else.
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And some of you wonder why us plastisol guys haven't been all that eager to make the switch :) Seriously though, that is a little intimidating when we are so used to flinging ink into a screen and being done with it. I'll be ordering this CCI stuff in the next week or so and give it a whirl on some of our white only designs.
You can just toss in some activator, stir it up and go to town.
My mix is for manual printing, with a touchy old dryer, so the consistency and cure-ability has to be spot on for me. Also, I don't stock any RFU ink, I mix all the colors from pigment.
As with any product - YMMV.
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I have talked to both distributors that I have ordered the sui pre white from. Both have said the same thing, never hear of it happening, yet, it's happening. The cci pre white is working just as the other should. The sui white in the pics is from a batch just sent to the distributor, which is a different distributor from past batches. None the less, I'll be using the CCI/Ryo stuff. It wash test way better too. We took both batches of shirts to the washers, the cci held bright, the sui faded a little, neither had any residual hand. For me, it's been a search for a product that would be easier and less stressful to use. I'll be interested in trying the Rutland as well, but for now, the CCI was boom, activator directly into the mix, whip it up, let it sit, no water, nothing good to go. I would literally, after trashing 5 gallons of the sui white, have to stand with someone using the same product, shadow them to believe that it won't do to them, what we are seeing. Also, tried distilled water, same effect. The guy from Ryonet says it's the white pigment that Matsui uses that clumps up. Now, I haven't mixed it with a drill, maybe that type of force would break up the clumps, but that is an extra step, if CCI will whip fast by hand with no issue, print nicer, hold up on press better, and in the end, have a better white print, wash better, I think the answer was clear enough for me there. Now, other pigment mixes in Matsui brite base have been easy and awesome, so I'll stay with that, but the white, will be CCI for me. Thanks for the great thread everyone, I think the tips will be used by many!
Mike
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Good to hear Mike. Some may know I've been a big fan of the CCI products since they beta tested here. BTW although I haven't checked lately I believe the white is the cheapest in town........certainly cheaper than plastisol. And you really need to try to get it to freeze up in the screen.
tp
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As I mentioned before, wasn't as happy with the brightness of the white of CCI as compared to Rutland or Matsui (right after printing), but I think it deserves another shot. It is definately the cheapest discharge white I know of. A little bird told me you can buy it under the imagestar line, IMS1011. The "imagestar" discharge base I do use and like a lot, especially the price.
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I should stress again, you need a jiffy mixer in your shop. They're totally affordable, and when you get it, you will wonder why you didn't have it before.
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Do not mix by hand. High speed/high shear mixing is necessary. Says it right there on the pail.
Alan you're gonna love the CCI white, or any discharge white for that matter.
Little more prep on the front end but the ease of use and results are worth it.
I hate it when we have to print plastisol white.
But, to mention, CCI's plastisols are pretty nice too.
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It may say it on the bucket but it's not necessary. I've been mixing discharge with a stainless steel ink knife for forever with zero problems.
Whatever floats your boat though. Certainly won't hurt.
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It may say it on the bucket but it's not necessary. I've been mixing discharge with a stainless steel ink knife for forever with zero problems.
Whatever floats your boat though. Certainly won't hurt.
Anything above a quart and I spin it, but just so my hands don't get tired. Other than that, hand mixing works just fine. I use silicone spatulas most of the time, as it's easier to scrape ALL of the ink into the mix.
This is my favorite:
http://www.goodcook.com/item/20365/TOUCH_Scraper_Spatula (http://www.goodcook.com/item/20365/TOUCH_Scraper_Spatula)
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Jiffy mixer? is that an actual product? Ill check into that. Carpal tunneled up wrists as it is, this may lessen the stress factor a bit. You mean one of those paint whips that you put on a dril?
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You mean one of those paint whips that you put on a dril?
Yep!
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Jiffy mixer? is that an actual product? Ill check into that. Carpal tunneled up wrists as it is, this may lessen the stress factor a bit. You mean one of those paint whips that you put on a dril?
Thats the one. They make them in a small size for qt containers.
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http://www.jiffymixer.com/ (http://www.jiffymixer.com/)
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thanks for the link Dan. I noticed a couple that I had here in a closet have a paint coating on them, probably not a good idea to use those, I'll order a couple of these bad boys.
Mike
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We've got a jiffy mixer but rarely use it. We don't buy too many 5 gallons of anything because I just can't commit to any white or even black ink long enough to do so. I mix our gallons with our goop scoop and use an up and down motion like a jackhammer to mix and it works great. It seems to loosen up the ink better and faster than stirring in a circular motion.
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We use these from Home Depot for stubborn WB on a drill, $4.98 each, they work in quarts just fine.
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9846/fa4449dd465b4c5dbf11c1e.jpg)
I got this idea from another generous member whose name I can't remember, wide wood paddle bits and grind the tips flat, cut the shank to your taste, these will be waaay easier to clean, it's on my to-do list.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/1711/0092085700021.jpg)
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Tanner Smith from SPA is coming by today to look at these mix issues with the discharge whites and see what's up. I hope to have someone in person see the issue at hand with the sui.
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Been a while since my last post on this, been busy, thanks to God!!!! Tanner from SPA spent an afternoon with us to see what our issue was. In the end, he recommended the same thing, using a powered mixer of some type, mini drill press with the ground down paddle, power drill ect. I had done so many mixes for tests it was nuts. Here is where it gets funny. I had a run last week where I mixed a half gallon of the cci white straight, no dilution at all. Mixed easy, stayed creamy, didn't lock up after being on press for 2 hours, came out of the screen after the run just as creamy as it went in. Today, I wanted to test a design. I figured heck let me see something. Put some of that mix from last week in the screen, ran a couple shirts. Boom, discharged just as bright as the run from last week. Now this stuff had been sitting in the mix bucket with aluminum foil on it as a lid. It didn't dehydrate, didn't separate, and after a week still discharged. Just to play, it had about 800 grams of ink in it, I then added 400 grams of Matsui brite base to the mix, whipped that up, added another 20 grams of activator to compensate for the newly added base,, whipped that up, let it sit for 20 mins. Came back loaded up the screen. Not only did it discharge even better, brighter, it was totally brite white, not the normal bone white that most of the discharge white printing I have tried came out with. The two brands mixed together fine, stayed creamy and wet in the screen and had an awesome eye popping end result. Try it if you have any of it around the shop and an hour to mess with. Everyone's white that I have seen from discharge printing has always been more bone or off white, this one was like looking at wilflex quick white plastisol. Anyway, thanks again to everyone for their input. We have a new found excitement with printing white discharge. I'm trying to get with any customers of Screen Process of Alabama to bulk a nice order of CCI white so that they can move that into their inventory. I know it's available through other places, but just like we got them to carry Matsui, it would be cool to see them get the CCI white as a stock item. Have a great Friday guys!
Mike
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I have about a gallon left of the Matsui white and once that's gone I'm going with the CCI stuff. I just did a run of one color white-on-red with the CCI, uncut. Single stroke pass with a light flood. Bright, clean white print. Much easier on the hands than the Matsui printing manually, I can't print with way less pressure.
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I agree man, mixes easier, stays creamy, and it really is brighter white.