TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ericheartsu on February 20, 2015, 06:43:43 PM
-
Who is using automatic coaters on here? What are you using?
-
We use a uni kote from m&r...... One of the best machines we have for sure....... It can repeat within 1% eom all day long and anyone can operate it. I mean anyone LOL..... We coat everything in our shop 1/1 with it, and depending on mesh use either the sharp edge or round edge of coater(15-16% difference in eom)
If you have any specific questions ask away, but for sure one of the best things we've put in our shop. Works great with cts
-
I was looking at coaters for many months and wanted to get the M&R uni for the Jak shop as it was the only one that fit the size I wanted, coated both sides at once, was stupid easy to use for anyone and fit's just about any screen up to 40+ inches.
-
i don't really have any specific questions, I just wanted to see what everyone was using. Wether it be the unikote, or the Saati one. It's the next thing we are going to get in the shop in the next couple of months, as I feel like it'll just take one more variable out of the question.
-
What is the price range on a coater?
-
Well I will say there's lots of advantages but one major thing was quality of life. I busted my back for years doing all the coating, then I went through a good amount of employees which all hated coating. Just never seemed like I could get an employee that truly enjoyed coating. Now everyone in my shop begs to coat because all they have to do is push a button lol I just left the shop for the night and the last thing I did was coat 50 screens. Took me a little over a half hour but I'm in a good mood my back feels great and I have perfect screens ready to go for Monday. Once you start auto coating you won't look back. Our uni kote rocks it for us here
-
What is the price range on a coater?
Around 16K
-
What is the price range on a coater?
When we bought our m&r coater they were around 15k at that time
-
Well I will say there's lots of advantages but one major thing was quality of life. I busted my back for years doing all the coating, then I went through a good amount of employees which all hated coating. Just never seemed like I could get an employee that truly enjoyed coating. Now everyone in my shop begs to coat because all they have to do is push a button lol I just left the shop for the night and the last thing I did was coat 50 screens. Took me a little over a half hour but I'm in a good mood my back feels great and I have perfect screens ready to go for Monday. Once you start auto coating you won't look back. Our uni kote rocks it for us here
We were looking at the Uni Kote back in the fall for this exact same reason. We hope to squeeze one into our budget soon. Saving up my dollars. 8)
-
there are a couple of digikotes and digikote IIs around...but i'm finding buying new is the way to go. So much less headaches. Plus M&R support as everyone knows is awesome.
-
there are a couple of digikotes and digikote IIs around...but i'm finding buying new is the way to go. So much less headaches. Plus M&R support as everyone knows is awesome.
I'll look at my notes when I get to my shop tomorrow but I think we've done around 10,000 screens since we got our uni kote last year and its been awesome. I do not like the machines that coat two screens at once mainly because it's double the work cleaning the throughs when your done plus your having to fill four throughs at once which require a ton of emulsion. In my shop uni kote was the best choice and it has not let us down. I love it almost as much as our cts but not quite :P uni kote is so easy to use anyone can coat screens I even let my 4 year old run it lol
-
there are a couple of digikotes and digikote IIs around...but i'm finding buying new is the way to go. So much less headaches. Plus M&R support as everyone knows is awesome.
uhhh.. former II user here and ahh.. yeah that's all i have to say about that ???
Danny just nailed it plus the thing has a HUGE footprint.
-
We made the decision to go auto coating right off the bat (we bought it 4 months before even ordering a press) simply because it does not require skilled labour which is almost impossible to find, let alone keep.
This is the unit we settled on after searching worldwide http://www.grunig.ch/en/products/coating/g-coat-404.html (http://www.grunig.ch/en/products/coating/g-coat-404.html). The quality of the scoop coater design is what swayed me. It doesn't have some of the bells and whistles of other units around, but I prefer all our gear to have elegant and thoughtful design not be full of bells and whistles that rarely get used and in the end are just more not better.
Unfortunately after the Swiss francagedon recently it just went up in price by quite a bit.
-
Unfortunately after the Swiss francagedon recently it just went up in price by quite a bit.
How does the Grunig compare in price versus the Uni-Kote?
-
One of my customers has had the Grunig coater for years now, and they coat hundreds of screens a day with no issues. The main advantage they like about an auto coater is they can take anybody off the street give them a job, and have them coating consistently and correctly in a matter of minutes. Like TCred said though, Grunig's pricing is usually pretty high.
-
I know if you drink enough of the Saati Kool Aid, they may hook you up with a free one as long as you use all their stuff. At least that is what was presented to me....
-
After watching the video of the grunig coating machine I would still suggest the uni kote. The uni kote coats both sides at the same time so right there it's double the speed to coat a single screen. You also have to flip the screen on the grunig and looks like two hands required to operate the machine. With my uni kote I can load screens with one hand and press the start button with the other hand. It's very fast and efficient compared to what I see in that grunig video. I'm sure the grunig is a good machine but after watching the video I'm confident the uni kote will do the same amount of screens in less then half the time. That's huge to me
-
It looks like the Grunig is all electric. No air. I could see how that would be appealing. Plug & Play.
-
Think Kiwo makes one too.
-
It looks like the Grunig is all electric. No air. I could see how that would be appealing. Plug & Play.
I assume most print shops have air in their shop, I just put a tee on one of our heat press air lines and ran to the coating machine. After uncrating our uni kote we were coating screens within 10 minutes. It was plug and play for us, and one of the easiest machines to learn we've got.
-
The bargain hunter in me would probably take a close look at this (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Autotype-ScreenMaster-automated-screen-film-coater-applicator-/120143158307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1bf9171c23) if we did enough screens to justify an auto coater.
-
Think Kiwo makes one too.
They have a very good one but, it coats two screens & is kind of bulky, & as Danny said, more troughs to clean.
Murphy37
-
The bargain hunter in me would probably take a close look at this ([url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Autotype-ScreenMaster-automated-screen-film-coater-applicator-/120143158307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1bf9171c23[/url]) if we did enough screens to justify an auto coater.
That has been for sale FOREVER, many a time I have wondered what freight on it would be.
-
They are pretty simple machines for the most part, not much that couldn't be fixed if the plc is working.
-
I remember using a Harlacher 20 years ago. Built like a tank.
I'm sure M&R would be a good thing though, keeping in mind service and all.
-
Owning/using a coating machine is kind of like CTS units.
Those that don't have them make excuses that involve "Good Enough'!
Those that own/use them would never choose to do without.
~Kitson
-
Auto coater is on our "buy soon" list.
now if somebody could come out with a good, quick and in-expensive screen auto-cleaning solution (notice I said all 3!)... I'd be in heaven.
way cheaper to automate than it is to add staff, especially with how much they're raising minimum wage.
-
Owning/using a coating machine is kind of like CTS units.
Those that don't have them make excuses that involve "Good Enough'!
Those that own/use them would never choose to do without.
~Kitson
I think it's more of a demographic thing, we coat about once a week or so, if we were doing it daily it might be a different story and the ROI on an automated unit may start making sense. The Graphic screen shop I managed had one and while it was great as a hands-off time saver, the clean-up was more labor than hand-coating, and coating wasn't that much more uniform as it varied with emulsion levels in the scoops and emulsion viscosity variance from a new bucket to a older 1/4 bucket. Funny thing is the other graphic shop I worked at could have really benefited from one as they did a ton of 4cp. work where eom is more critical, and the screens were ~9' x 5' I was literally too short to scoop coat them.
At least the math on a coater is very straight forward and easy to show, for a busy shop it's a no-brainer I think.
-
I know every shop is different. But a coating machine is a necessity here. Along with the machine, coating two screens at a time, we can also image and expose screens at the same time. One person doing three tasks at the same time. I've had a coating machine for over ten years. Quality, consistency, ease of use. So many reasons to appreciate it. And this unit has been running since install with absolutely zero down time.
-
We bought the Uni-Kote by M&R. Once setup and aimed on the unit, it just makes life so much easier and consistent across the board. But yes, two troughs to clean up. Yes there is but I couldn't imagine it having it any other way.
-
We bought the Uni-Kote by M&R. Once setup and aimed on the unit, it just makes life so much easier and consistent across the board. But yes, two troughs to clean up. Yes there is but I couldn't imagine it having it any other way.
you guys are in humble right? Can I come over and check it out?
-
After watching the video of the grunig coating machine I would still suggest the uni kote. The uni kote coats both sides at the same time so right there it's double the speed to coat a single screen. You also have to flip the screen on the grunig and looks like two hands required to operate the machine. With my uni kote I can load screens with one hand and press the start button with the other hand. It's very fast and efficient compared to what I see in that grunig video. I'm sure the grunig is a good machine but after watching the video I'm confident the uni kote will do the same amount of screens in less then half the time. That's huge to me
Danny
about how long does it take to clean the machine up when completed with coating?
-
We coat two screens at a time, thus four troughs to clean. Takes someone that cares (vs. someone just putting in their time) about five minutes to clean up.
-
How does the Grunig compare in price versus the Uni-Kote?
I can't comment on the M&R unit, but the Grunig 404 cost us 11539.60 CHF
-
Auto coater is on our "buy soon" list.
now if somebody could come out with a good, quick and in-expensive screen auto-cleaning solution (notice I said all 3!)... I'd be in heaven.
way cheaper to automate than it is to add staff, especially with how much they're raising minimum wage.
This!
-
Since I haven't really seen anything from my perspective on the auto coater I feel like I should say why we won't be buying one any time soon. Not that in the future it might become a good idea but right now, I put more emphasis on speed because I've got 3 guys, my printer, my screen tech and myself that can coat screens that are within microns of each other in thickness and consistency and we can coat 30 screens in less than 30 minutes. I know you can do other things while coating screens if you have a setup like the M&R room and maybe some day we'll have something like that, but as things are constructed and run here, I know our screens are as good as they can get, coated automatically or manually. Doing our volume with a skeleton crew and one auto, speed is of more concern in my mind, especially considering what we manage to achieve quality wise doing it manually. Achieving a high quality stencil has never been much of a problem here and I've had no less than 6 or 7 screen techs that have done the job and maybe it has something to do with luck, or maybe it's because we coat screens a certain way and we don't deviate from that technique because it works so well. Now reclaiming screens worth a damn is another story, and getting someone to show up every day without calling in sick once every 3 weeks, knowing that we don't need to underbase navy ink on a medium pink shirt, being appreciative when you receive a decent raise, etc...yeah we struggle in those areas.
-
After talking with Kiwo this week I learned that the G-Coat 404 is no longer brought into the States in bulk. So if you want one, you have to order 1. From Switzerland. Therefore, they're expensive (Although still cheaper than a Uni-Kote. But they only do one side at a time).
The Simplex model is the next option from Kiwo/Grunig. It can do both two screens at a time, both sides. Price is about $5k more than what I was unofficially quoted for a Uni-Kote. Much larger machine though and until we expand wouldn't be an option purely out of space restrictions.
-
King, the Simplex is what we have. Works great in our system.
-
Yes. We're in Humble. Give me a call.
-
We have had our Uni Kote for about a month or so and it seems we are putting down way to much emulsion. How do you adjust it and what kind of stensil do you get on it. Ours have ranged from so thick that the emulsion won't dry to having emulsion dripping of the screen. When the guy from M&R set it up he seemed to be having trouble getting it right but he was also on a tight time schedule. Could use a little help.
-
We have had our Uni Kote for about a month or so and it seems we are putting down way to much emulsion. How do you adjust it and what kind of stensil do you get on it. Ours have ranged from so thick that the emulsion won't dry to having emulsion dripping of the screen. When the guy from M&R set it up he seemed to be having trouble getting it right but he was also on a tight time schedule. Could use a little help.
Where are you located? feel free to contact me and I will get you some help.
-
We have had our Uni Kote for about a month or so and it seems we are putting down way to much emulsion. How do you adjust it and what kind of stensil do you get on it. Ours have ranged from so thick that the emulsion won't dry to having emulsion dripping of the screen. When the guy from M&R set it up he seemed to be having trouble getting it right but he was also on a tight time schedule. Could use a little help.
What type of emulsion?
What type of frames?
What type of screen mesh(thread diameter as well)?
What are your current settings(speed, air pressure, sharp or round side of trough, etc)?
Do you have a eom gauge to test thickness or are you using another method?
We've made around 10k screens with our cts and this coater tested around 40 emulsions and I have not seen one that was too thick it wouldn't dry so something with your process or the machine is not right. I think with more info the guys successfully using our uni kotes can give you some suggestions that should get you within a good eom range.
-
I'm sorry for the late response. We made progress on our coater today. Seems to be going in the right direction. We sent 100% yet but we will get there.
-
sorry to drag this from the dead, but does any one have a Saati Coater?
Iss is around the corner for us, and we are either going with M&R or Saati.
-
sorry to drag this from the dead, but does any one have a Saati Coater?
Iss is around the corner for us, and we are either going with M&R or Saati.
Can't speak for the saati unit but I know we were one of the first with the uni kote and we've had absolutely no issues with ours...... I'll have to go see how many screens we have coated but I know we are into the 20,000+ with it. Coating 1 screen at a time I feel is better then doing the 2 at once for a shop your size. Like I said I cannot speak for the saati unit but if you went with the uni kote you would be coating perfect screens the day you get it. I have some recipes for PHU2 emulsion if your still using that.