TSB
screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: PylonPress on March 12, 2015, 11:38:36 PM
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I am just wondering why most shops are using to print positives for their jobs.
We are currently using an Epson E1900 with Accurip software and Black max cartridges. Printing on R-films because they are relatively inexpensive and have always done a good job.
It has worked well for the past 5 years but it on its last legs so I want to see what else is out there. For a replacement I was thinking an Epson R1430 because the R1900 is out of production and it seems a popular option and will still work with Accurip.
I have a hard time justifying the costs of a DTS printer for a small shop like mine, or even a OYO imagesetter. I also very rarely print over 13" x 19", and if I ever do I can double up 2 films as long as there is no halftones in the print. Its frustrating these things break every few years, but replacing a $300-400 printer still seems more feasible.
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We're using an Epson 4880 w/accurip and have been every happy with it. We also use an hp5000 for single color jobs.
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I am using an old Epson 1100. I can print up to 13x19 with it. Using Accurip as well. I have had two 1400/1430 crap out on me lately.
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The blackmaxx cartridges are an unnecessary expense. You can get equal results with a good uv blocking bulk ink and refillable cartridges for literally a tenth the cost.
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We use an hp officejet 7610..LOL...we output halftones in photoshop. just do adjustments before printing to make more of an ink deposit.
on sale for $175 at staples....LOL
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I'm still using my R1800,.
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Been using our 1900/AccuRip/All Black for years and love it, but probably ready for new.
What is the newest model number say 13" Epson now a days?
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LOL I remember talking with Scott Fresener many years ago when the OYO and Xante etc was the kings for our film output devices. We were talking about the epson 1450 and the 3000 which was being tested in a defunct rag called the Press using David Graines rip/film...Scott's words to me is it will never be as good a real imagesetter, now years later what percentage of screen printers use the epson? and use them to make very high end seps, Yeah I know CTS/DTS is making a huge charge but not everyone can just rush out and buy a CTS/DTS.
darryl
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inkjets will never be as good as imagesetters...they will also never be as expensive to maintain and for consumables. They are more than adequate for our industry though.
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3Deep- is that a balloon in your avatar? Why didn't you get it from? Was it something I said? ;)
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I see all sides of this argument. I currently use an oyo and love it, would ideally go dts but cost prohibitive right now, and Im not 100% sold on the current offerings. Alot of people will say the oyo is too expensive but by the time you figure in film, inks etc its not too much more than inkjet and there is a definite quality difference that really cant be argued.
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I see all sides of this argument. I currently use an oyo and love it, would ideally go dts but cost prohibitive right now, and Im not 100% sold on the current offerings. Alot of people will say the oyo is too expensive but by the time you figure in film, inks etc its not too much more than inkjet and there is a definite quality difference that really cant be argued.
I have the 14" techstyler. I feel like that is one of the best purchases I ever made. I would love to move to DTS but I need to upgrade my exposure first!
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epson 3800 (we picked it up after the 4800 died) with one black cart, the rest are full of cleaning fluid. AccuRIP, and we get a good deal on Ulano film from Garston, though I've used quite a few others. I liked Fixxons, but they are on the west coast, and we're on the east coast, so the five days travel time doesn't always work out if I get forgetful, not that it ever happens :o
Steve
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DTS is great, I won't go back o film, even if it was imagesetter film. putting the film on the screen is a step I don't miss AT ALL.
I did actually prefer the 3000 over the 4800. I liked the rolls on the 4800, but I like non-wp film better. I also ran the Hybrid ink and could get hella dense d-max values on that stuff. I swear it would block out the sun.
I never tried that ink the 4800, maybe if i did it would be a different story.
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Small operation, bottom end of the scale here, and still amazed at the quality I can put out with my Epson 1100, using Cobra Pigment inks (I do a lot of transfers as well) on inkjet.net films.
13x19 is plenty big enough for me. I'd just farm out jthe printing on jobs requiring a bigger image anyway.
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The blackmaxx cartridges are an unnecessary expense. You can get equal results with a good uv blocking bulk ink and refillable cartridges for literally a tenth the cost.
I know right! Got a link for that... quick search I found this, UV blocking ink (http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh) for ya..
I'm still using my R1800,.
what a great printer that is so overlooked from the rest of the epson line.
I got mine off cragislist for 50 bucks, cleaned it up real nice and loaded it up with the JetBlack Inks, as they were the best UV blocking DYE ink that I could find to make the films as opaque as possible on a clear non waterproof film. That combo allowed me to hold a 3% dot on my 272 mesh using high output black light fluorescent tubes in my lawson exposure.
CARTS - http://www.cisinks.com/empty-refillable-ink-cartridge-set-for-epson-r800-r1800-p-921.html?osCsid=3435b5528ffe654e41ce395613b0abd1 (http://www.cisinks.com/empty-refillable-ink-cartridge-set-for-epson-r800-r1800-p-921.html?osCsid=3435b5528ffe654e41ce395613b0abd1)
DYE inks - http://www.filmoutputsolutions.com/dyeink (http://www.filmoutputsolutions.com/dyeink)
FILM - http://stuff4print.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_28 (http://stuff4print.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=43_28)
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Small operation, bottom end of the scale here, and still amazed at the quality I can put out with my Epson 1100, using Cobra Pigment inks (I do a lot of transfers as well) on inkjet.net films.
13x19 is plenty big enough for me. I'd just farm out jthe printing on jobs requiring a bigger image anyway.
Andy, I'm having issues with dripping.... ever get that on your 1100?
Seems like sometimes all the ink just leaks out.
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Nope, not at all, although I've had a mark here and there on the edge of papers, usually after a misfeed/jam, so I figure it's wet ink being tranferred.
Where does it leak? Could it be an aftermarket cart issue?
btw, DK is another WF1100 user who had his more than a year before I got mine.
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My understanding is that it can't be the carts. As long as the print heads are primed it shouldn't be able to pull any more ink out of the cart than is requested.
I've got two different printers that are doing it though. :(
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So now you have me worried.
Perhaps you should ask in a new thread. I know we have at least four or five other 1100 users here. (probably way more, as we're not the only cheapies, LOL!)
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No sweat, Ross is giving me some instructions. We just aren't always moving in the same direction. :)
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Epson 3000 with t-rip and also an Oyo thermal image setter
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Small operation, bottom end of the scale here, and still amazed at the quality I can put out with my Epson 1100, using Cobra Pigment inks (I do a lot of transfers as well) on inkjet.net films.
13x19 is plenty big enough for me. I'd just farm out jthe printing on jobs requiring a bigger image anyway.
Andy, I'm having issues with dripping.... ever get that on your 1100?
Seems like sometimes all the ink just leaks out.
I use a 1100 as well.
I scratched my print head with a jammed film, and magenta has to be emptied because there would be a thin layer of magenta on the film.
The ink I use is original Epson refillables (L-series)
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So now you have me worried.
Perhaps you should ask in a new thread. I know we have at least four or five other 1100 users here. (probably way more, as we're not the only cheapies, LOL!)
I use 1100 also, been using it every day for about 3 years. No problems. With cis system all black inks.
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Been on the ScreenWriter (Xante) for about 8 years. Started on the 3 it died, went to the 4 which was great, but when we swithched to Mac based cpu's only the 5 was compatible so I bought that about 3 years ago I've had problems printing over 12.25" wide since day one. We have to warm it up and run a few sheets of paper before trying to print up to the full 13" wide max. It's been a bit of a headache...
I've really been wanting to check out the OYO but I just haven't found any good info or talked to many people who can speak much good about it. I see alot of guys using the epson's but I just have a thing that I don't want to go to inkjet....maybe I just need to get over it and give it a try.
Any one with a OYO and who is mac based that can share any info...the good the bad and the ugly. Your time would be appreciated.
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Been on the ScreenWriter (Xante) for about 8 years. Started on the 3 it died, went to the 4 which was great, but when we swithched to Mac based cpu's only the 5 was compatible so I bought that about 3 years ago I've had problems printing over 12.25" wide since day one. We have to warm it up and run a few sheets of paper before trying to print up to the full 13" wide max. It's been a bit of a headache...
I've really been wanting to check out the OYO but I just haven't found any good info or talked to many people who can speak much good about it. I see alot of guys using the epson's but I just have a thing that I don't want to go to inkjet....maybe I just need to get over it and give it a try.
Any one with a OYO and who is mac based that can share any info...the good the bad and the ugly. Your time would be appreciated.
I am mac based and have been using the oyo for several years. I LOVE the thing. The films are always crisp and accurate. It is not as dark as our old silver plate films but it is great for what we do today. The tech support is great. I do buy the premium plus film. It is more expensive per roll but as long as you are using it the machine is guaranteed. I have a had a few minor issues that I have been talk through repairs. I had one big issue with the machine loosing alignment. I sent it back to oyo. They fixed it in a day or two and sent it right back. I have said many times that the oyo is one of the best business decisions that we have made. I will admit that do like the idea of CTS though.
If you have any specific questions feel free to ask.
Matt
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[quote author=acescreen link=topic=14385.msg139005#msg139005 date=1426310371
I've really been wanting to check out the OYO but I just haven't found any good info or talked to many people who can speak much good about it. I see alot of guys using the epson's but I just have a thing that I don't want to go to inkjet....maybe I just need to get over it and give it a try.
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We used a GCC same as the Xante and was hesitant to switch over 6 years ago. Had used velum since it's inception and was
leery because I didn't see it giving good halftones, Wrong. Oyo if you can afford it, but the most prevalent used output
system in the industry now for years, is inkjet. Just look at the peeps on this site, even the high-end printers use it unless they can justify direct to screen. Pretty inexpensive, go for it! If you can afford an imagesetter like Oyo, it will of course have a nicer output than inkjet.
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Any one with a OYO and who is mac based that can share any info...the good the bad and the ugly. Your time would be appreciated.
I've used many a Techstyler in my days, nice machine but sadly the technology is outdated.
With the cheap cost of Inkjet that can hold just as good and better dots than the OYO, you're better off buying a used 4880 Epson and a new imac with the left over cash.
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My problem with the oyo's is that at $10k, you might as well pony up and get CTS!
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The techstyler is a great imagesetter. Now owned by Exile Technologies yet still the same machine. I had a 12 inch for years and upgraded to the techstyler 14inch about 9 to 10 years ago amd it still runs strong. I go through a roll of film monthly sometimes twice a month. Have inly had to replace one of the rollers since purchasing. Not bad at all. The price has dropped since my purchase as well. Think I payed 19k for mine direcrly from oyo. Not ao think they list around 10k. With no inks to buy it is a great asset and offers great films and halftones. The next best thing would be a direct to screen.
Richard Reilly - Fluid
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How much is paper vs film?
Ink is pretty cheap though.
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We have a4900 and a 78 sum thing we just got new.
Cobra carts and ink, Accurip.
If art is good, great screens.
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Epson 1400 and Cobra Dye based Black. Refillable carts from Cobra. All black. Accurip using an all black setting on Fixxons water resistant (not!) 13x19 films.
I purchased a 4800 off of Craigslist but it still is awaiting its installation...partly because I'm still MAD about the Ridiculous UPS shipping fee, and partly because my 1400 is so darned reliable I just haven't seen the need.
I have an 1100 too, and it has been excellent up until recently. The dripping Kevin referred to has been happening to me also. It gets Cobra inks but it hasn't printed a film in a long while. It prints 4 color pigment ink, and was retired to the office when I started with 1400's and dye based inks for films. I was told that dye based black had a higher D-Max and the 1000 has had pigment ink since day 1.
For the 1400 dripping proplem, l fold a couple or 3 layers of Bounty paper towels, and lay it down under the printhead and slide the printhead back and forth on top of the paper. It's a little awkward to start, but it works for a few days or weeks. Once in place you can lightly dampen the towel with yiur prefeered cleaning solvent for whichever inks you use. I use Greased Lightening from Ace Hardware.
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200 foot rolls are roughly $400 depending on who you get it from.
Richard Reilly - Fluid
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Another good thing is you can replace a film from a previous job months later and it lines up perfectly. The bad thing is the film is heat sensitive and leacing in your car, near a flash, etx. Will black out the entire film. Other than that the best there is aside from dts. Plus it prints about 6 times faster than a epson.
Richard Reilly - Fluid
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That's a hard sell... I love the idea, just can't see the numbers.
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Agree. I use one as I have been offering film outout since day one and give the best I can give. Just like when I had my shop, used the best equipment, inks and consumables. Cheap in usually.means cheap out. Not all instances uet many. The epsons are great and do the job. Use what best fits your budget and needs.
Richard Reilly - Fluid
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Another good thing is you can replace a film from a previous job months later and it lines up perfectly. The bad thing is the film is heat sensitive and leacing in your car, near a flash, etx. Will black out the entire film. Other than that the best there is aside from dts. Plus it prints about 6 times faster than a epson.
Richard Reilly - Fluid
Speaking of films lining up. My cheap 1100 blows my mind that as long as adjusted properly, it is amazingly accurate for lining up on a second trip through.
Here's an image, the black plate, I output, and then noticed that the lines on the rings were too wimpy.
I was able to go back and add these two 1.25 pt. lines and they were dead on! In this example, I have removed the left hand one, but you can see the right.
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For those of you with WF1100's and no problems.
Do you guys power off your machines (with the button) from time to time?
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Hardly ever off in a few years.
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Mine is on all the time. Sometimes not used for a week or two. No issues.
BTW, I use Fixxons all the time for film. (I do not know if I answered that on this thread)
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Ross with inkjetcarts.us says you should turn it off from time to time, like over the weekend for optimal performance. Caps the heads better or something.
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For those of you with WF1100's and no problems.
Do you guys power off your machines (with the button) from time to time?
Never turn it off
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I turn lots of people off. But never my 1100. I was told not to.
Of course, I am one of THOSE people who have trouble with dripping. :o