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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: ol man on March 24, 2015, 09:17:06 AM
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please tell me silicon or hsa is the answer -- tired of mixed results with plastisol on poly blends.
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performance plastisol has worked GREAT for us here.. even tough 100% poly garments like A4.
are you having dye migration (after the cure) or dye sublimation (while curing, or immediately afterwards)?
Dye Sublimiation is due to over-cure...
Dye Migration is a whole different animal, although I've heard good things about the Silicone inks.
remember that with both silicone and hsa you have to flash after every color...
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I've been struggling with it lately. I've tried blocker grays with poor results. Best results with plasti has been with Endurance series from Rutland. Rutland still hasn't released it's silicone line yet, sounds like June release
The Core 365 line sold from Alpha sucks for Bleed migration! Just a heads up
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we use the wilflex epic performance and it works awesome. since we started using it, we have had no issues. but, the downside is its expensive.
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we use the wilflex epic performance and it works awesome. since we started using it, we have had no issues. but, the downside is its expensive.
I should have mentioned above, that's what we use here -- not enough coffee yet :)
Rutland Performance Plus bled like crazy here, even with a gas dryer and making sure the shirts didn't get above 300 degrees... Rutlands answer was their Underbase-Grey... but we ended up not bothering as the Wilflex Performance worked so well.
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If you use HSA on bleeders - You will need to print their HSA Barrier Grey.
Silicone has no fiber matte characteristics, so it is meant for synthetic fabrics - Poly, Nylon, etc...
We have been using Wiflex Top Score inks for a while and they work well. Sprint 2000 HO 12 foot chamber. We run right at 295 with a 1 minute retain time. Very Few bleed issues.
But it doesn't matte fibers to save its life. So its a poly only ink. Also, when warm the ink becomes very runny like most Wilflex inks.
Just tried the .357 white from One Stroke. Slightly better fibre trap and Zero bleed on crappy hoodies and Crew Sweatshirts that would not stop bleeding with the best low bleed whites. But the .357 has very low viscosity - I had to add cabosil to the ink to get it to print better/fibre trap better.
Does the Wilflex Performance white have good fibre trap on hoodies? This will be for both manual and Auto printing.
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Just tried the .357 white from One Stroke. Slightly better fibre trap and Zero bleed on crappy hoodies and Crew Sweatshirts that would not stop bleeding with the best low bleed whites. But the .357 has very low viscosity - I had to add cabosil to the ink to get it to print better/fibre trap better.
We have been very happy with the .357 as well... We like creamy, I've NEVER seen a poly white that creamy, amazing!
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Its definitely after the cure -- give it a few hours , or overnight and blam! its grey..
we have been using triangle poly white...280 -290 cure temp...
Most of our issues are on blends - not so much on 100 percent polys
thank you for all the input --
i guess i'll be ordering some more poly whites
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I'm fixing to try some ELT one stroke ink. Supposedly it cures at 250 degrees.
Anyone else tried it yet?
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Its definitely after the cure -- give it a few hours , or overnight and blam! its grey..
we have been using triangle poly white...280 -290 cure temp...
Most of our issues are on blends - not so much on 100 percent polys
thank you for all the input --
i guess i'll be ordering some more poly whites
I changed the color of your problem up above. Throw that crap away. We have had excellent results with Rutland Super Poly White and Wilflex Performance. We are a Wilflex shop but the Supper Poly white is hands down the best performing ink around. Countless jobs run with no issues even when over cured.
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Its definitely after the cure -- give it a few hours , or overnight and blam! its grey..
we have been using triangle poly white...280 -290 cure temp...
Most of our issues are on blends - not so much on 100 percent polys
thank you for all the input --
i guess i'll be ordering some more poly whites
over cured
Is this a new Technique that I am not aware of? Things must be slow at your shop if your over-curing your shirts. LOL
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I'm fixing to try some ELT one stroke ink. Supposedly it cures at 250 degrees.
Anyone else tried it yet?
Yes, I tested it during the last workshop and turned the dryer down 50 degrees and the inks cured properly. They also printed great. I haven't tested the white fully yet. I mentioned this on another thread but we use One Stroke Production white for our poly needs and it's been great.
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A couple of things I noticed about the ELT: states cure temperature of 250-330F on the TDS. Specifically states "We recommend curing the ink film to 270ºF to 280ºF" for cotton and poly printing. Still a low temp, but not 250, which is for polypropylene bags (hint no washing!); or nylon with a catalyst additive.
Also, understand that as you lower the CURE temp of the ink, you are generally decreasing the GEL temperature as well. What does this mean to you --- gelling in container in hot months specifically during transit. Those brown trucks can get hot! In my previous life, we sold a 270 cure temp ink (Wilflex MCV-FF) in 250 gal flow bin containers to a customer. These flo bins containers had to be sprayed with a polyurethane insulation in an effort to keep the ink from gelling during transit.
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The ELT SERIES INKS from One Stroke Inks do fully cure at 250F into a fully washable ink film. The 250F-320F cure temperature range means this ink series is versatile enough to be used on the polypropylene bags that melt, the under armour hoodies that shrink if cured over 270F, or can be ran at a normal cure temp with the peace of mind that if a heating element goes out on your dryer, you still have cured ink!! As far as long term viscosity stability during transit, we have overcome this problem with new plasticizer technology we helped develop. When used with the ELT SERIES Digital black underbase, you have absolutely no bleed on the sublimated camo, or solid color poly bad bleeders. The ink film is very similar to Stahls heat press vinyl when cured. And on top of that, EVERYTHING sold at One Stroke Inks has a 100% money back guarantee,,, return it if you don't like it and we will refund your money no questions asked!!!
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Rocky - thanks for sharing this information. Reading the tech sheet, it is a little confusing with the significant curing range. Question -- if the ink is fully washfast at 250F - why would you suggest curing on higher temps specifically on 100% polyester? I mean, 250 should be well below the sublimation point of polyester dyes, so why even run higher temps? Personally, I would run as low a temperature as possible on these garments.
Also, very interesting to hear about your plasticizer technology to overcome the viscosity stability that generally plagues low cure plastisol.
Again, thanks for jumping in!
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Rob- Ever wash a red 100% polyester garment in the wash with a white towl??? Even though the temperature of the polyester never comes close to reaching its sublimation temperature, the dyes are still released from the garment! The additives that give the ELT SERIES ink its best bleed resistance work in the 270-300F range ( and no this ink WILL NOT GHOST AT ALL!). We would never recommend running at the bottom temperature cure range of any ink series unless the garment or material dictate so. If someone turns on a fan, or opens an overhead door you may get just enough of a breeze through a dryer to not fully cure whatever you are running. As I stated above, sublimation dyes do not have to reach their sublimation temperature to want to leach into vinyl no matter if it is cad cut, or printed plastisol.
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as a few others have said, Wilflex Performance! I have tried tons and always go back to it, its that good.
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If I have time this week I'm going to test the ELT I have with a little more detail and using the donut probe. All I did when using them at the workshop I just dropped the temp on the dryer and crossed my fingers. I didn't measure the ink temps coming out of the dryer or with the donut probe but I can just to give a shop's perspective. Not that the ink gurus word isn't enough but getting information from different shop environments can only help to back up what the manufacturers are saying about their product. I'll try my best to get some real numbers posted.