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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: whitewater on September 13, 2011, 09:19:15 PM
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So I printed on some stained glass. 3 color job. Since I never did it before I took it as a challenge. There was a little trial and error but the folks at nazdar were helpful (after ordering a couple thing) and a sign guy and flat stock printer down the street gave a pointer.
So I got paid for doing this, but the customer is planning big things for the print on glass. I can only feasibly only do a certain amount per hour. If they do the numbers they think they will do then I would not be able to keep up.
They may never do those numbers but am preparing in case.
The customer wants is lining up 2 more printers to print and they want me to show them how I do it..
I don't really feel comfortable doing that. Even though I got paid for what I really don't want to share what I did with a competitor.
The customer came to me because no one else would try this printing in this area. Just like the mylar, no one else would even attempt it, I did and made some dough.
So how would I go about charging for this? Do I take what I make at my shop and multiply that by, what 2 hours?..
I'm torn, because if I could keep up with it then I would say NO, but since I know that I couldn't then I shouldn't hold them back, OR just tell them to have the other printers do their own r&d?
Any suggestions?
Thanks
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If you really have something to pass on, don't sell yourself short. Consultants make more than printers.
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Don't do it. Your customer wants you to make competition for yourself. Tell your customer you can produce what they need. As soon as you teach others then they will start the bidding war.
It's questionable business motives.
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Knowledge is money. The flat stock printer gave you a tip for free so I'm not sure when knowledge becomes yours to keep. I suppose it becomes "yours" when you say it is and saying it is now "yours" is totally appropriate, considering the customer wants to in essence, tell you how to run your business by what knowledge you will share.
If you're able to figure out a challenging print job, why couldn't you figure out a way to accommodate the possible increased work? You could contract it out to a printer who you know, trust and could have an agreement with, gentlemen's agreement, or otherwise.
The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business.
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mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival NEVER NEVER NEVER TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!
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mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival NEVER NEVER NEVER TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!
Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.
I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.
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mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival NEVER NEVER NEVER TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!
Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.
I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.
I touched on this in a quote from my previous post: "The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business."
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Exactly. Who's to say that the other shops won't simply take the whole job now that someone has done the legwork. Apparently they were too lazy to be bothered before. It's a bit like doing art on spec, then the customer or lowball printer asking for the art.
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that's not fair for your customer to ask YOU to train competition. It's like Papa Johns giving away their sauce recipe -sure anyone can make it, but it will take a whole lot of work to figure it out. . . . . Why can't you do the job? If you can only do so many per hour, either change how you do it - or charge accordingly. . .is this something that can go on an auto ;)
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A situation for sure. I honestly don't think I could bring myself to do what he ask.
I often wonder if we would be calling each other SOBs if all of our shops were in the same general area. ???
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YEs, you should charge for your R&D. Years ago I was asked to figure out how to print on Frogg Togg type material. It paid really well, then production was sent overseas, but it was understood from the get go that is how it was going to be.
The first time I did some R&D was when Adidas first started with their stretch under armour type volleyball jerseys. I figured out how to print on it really well, and someone from Adidas called me to ask me how to do it because one of their large printers was having issues. A few weeks later every box that came in with those Adidas jerseys had the printing instructions I gave them, and my contact started using another cheaper printer. I felt really dumb for giving those instructions...I could have at least charged them for it or kept the contract a little while longer. Live and learn..and I learned to charge for R&D from that point forward.
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mooseman"s rule no 1 of survival NEVER NEVER NEVER TRAIN YOUR COMPETITION!!!!!!
Aren't we all a "COMPETITION"? In different states and cities, but with internet, who knows where people can order from.
I guess, Pierre was wrong with helping me to get on my feet when I got my equipment (other side of town). I guess I'm wrong with helping Streeter (printhouse) with art files (about 40 miles south).
Whitewater's case might be a bit different, but the forum is essentially a place where you help your competition, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly when your next door printer reads your comments and learns from it.
I touched on this in a quote from my previous post: "The knowledge shared on this forum has value too but unlike your situation, we aren't being forced to share it to win business."
Dennis You might have missed my point, it is not about not helping, it is about not cutting your own throat, we Sicilians are funny like that.
mooseman
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Moose LOL
I did not miss your point, but you have to look at it this way too. We are competition.
On the boards, I'm willing to help a fellow printer, but in Whitewater's case, that is different.
I might have sounded a bit different than I wanted, but all I wanted to say that in the principle, we are all competition and we are still helping each other.
Which is great.
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How large are the pieces/print area? I bet you could do it.
Anything not really small is going to load/unload really slow (comparatively)
even with an auto. Can't exactly toss glass around...
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There is one main difference about helping on this board and helping someone your client wants you to train. On here we are helping people with their own jobs we don’t know the clients and don’t have any way of getting the job. Whitewater is training competition and the client knows who they are. I said this once before, the client is asking you to teach more people so they can have options to get their work done. (bidding war) Most likely they will never print more then you can handle. This sounds like one of those clients’ that thinks they will make millions on this and want to make sure you are ready to handle the work before they even sell a hundred.
I am yet to have a client tell me they will be printing thousands of shirts then end up printing thousands. The clients that print thousands of shirts never say they are a big customer and will bring you tons of work.
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I'm very ignorant in most of this (printing).
I do have a buddy that has a shop in town that has helped me a TON... he's my contract printer and is always showing me and encouraging me to just buy equipment and start making money. Then again... he's confident in his clientèle and isn't worried about losing the jobs. In that same respect I wouldn't go after his clients (knowingly) and try to steal them. But then again that is the type of people WE are. Your competitors could be completely different.
I also had my contract embroiderer basically walk me out of her shop because I was there to ask some questions about stabilizers for a particular garment I was trying to embroider. This was a client of a completely different business and they have about 20 single head machines like mine and two 6 head machines. I shouldn't be a threat in any regard. No matter... different type of person. Ironically, now I want to get big with embroidery and steal her clients. ;) I also make http://www.cajunwineglass.com (http://www.cajunwineglass.com) and sell them to her little boutique shop at wholesale. I'm not in anyway flexible with my pricing with her and the other day she asked for some LSU and UL etched ones and I did two samples. When I showed her she asked if they were gifts. I said, "Nope, these are samples" She ordered a dozen and I took my glasses and left. She gets NO special treatment from me if she is gonna be that way with her business.
I'm also in the computer business... I'm friends with several other repair shops and consultants. We can call on each other to help with jobs, problems or whatever. We are all very friendly and share tips on how to clean up stubborn new viruses all the time. I have often accidentally tried to steal clients but as soon as I find out who their IT guy is I tell them how good they are and that they are doing well by using them. We (the other IT guy and I) then laugh at the situation and sometimes he offers me the client because they just don't mesh well with them or something. He also refers clients to me all the time (he strictly does businesses now and I still do both residential and business).
But all that being said if a client says "hey, we are also gonna use Joe Blow's computer repair as well as you... could you show him how you do X,Y and Z?" I'd have to say no. I don't know Joe Blow and I'm not training them to steal my business. Will I lose that client anyway? Probably... but they are settling for inferior work now. Same as these companies that try to contract me out to go and do their jobs. They are large national IT support people that don't have a local office and just contract the job to the lowest bidder in the area. Well, you aren't going to get my level of service unless you call me. If they go with this big company and I do the work then they are getting MY level of service without growing MY company. If I DON'T do the job then they call some other company that probably won't do the job as well and maybe one day they will get fed up with that level of service. Probable? Probably not but I'm sticking to my guns here.
I'd say for your situation I'd just say "sorry, I don't have time to teach others how to do these jobs... especially if I'm going to have to try and keep up with the demand you are expecting. Stick with me and you will have this quality of work on your products consistently over and over."
Hey, if you really can't keep up with their demand they should just raise their prices... simple economics of supply vs demand. :)
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Thanks guys.. Been wicked busy to get on here today.
There is one main difference about helping on this board and helping someone your client wants you to train. On here we are helping people with their own jobs we don’t know the clients and don’t have any way of getting the job. Whitewater is training competition and the client knows who they are. I said this once before, the client is asking you to teach more people so they can have options to get their work done. (bidding war) Most likely they will never print more then you can handle. This sounds like one of those clients’ that thinks they will make millions on this and want to make sure you are ready to handle the work before they even sell a hundred.
I am yet to have a client tell me they will be printing thousands of shirts then end up printing thousands. The clients that print thousands of shirts never say they are a big customer and will bring you tons of work.
yeah i've had those. But there is a possiblity here and I just want to have the answer if the situation comes up.
On an Auto? Maybe? The glass needs to be stuck really well. The time consuming part is loading and unloading. PLus air dry. So its not just tossing in the dryer and falls in basket. I can't figure out a faster way at the moment.
I may find a better way. Thats what I did with the mylar. With that manually I was cranking out 175 per hour.
I was thinking about finding someone to work nights while I am home. But then there is the whole worry factor and if for SOME reason they don't come in or whatever then I'll have to do it.
Since I am always slammed here, maybe I should just come up with a consultation fee and and let someone else fool with it. ;D