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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: rmonks on September 14, 2011, 10:53:57 PM
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I have an M&R gauntlet, and need to get a no shirt detector, I know , I know , i can buy one from M&R. I am like everyone else trying to save money , NOT cut corners.
If it is just sensors and parts, I can do it with a little guidance . Has anyone made their own.
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Can someone explain to me why you need a no shirt detector? What else are you missing if you don't notice skipping a platen? We have an MHM and can stop it quickly, is it the issue that other presses can't be stopped if you mis-load?
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I do not know anything about operating an auto, I have never even seen one operating outside a trade show or youtube. having said that the following may or may not make sense for you..................
What I think you are looking for is basically an on / off switch for a function the press performs.
Think specifically about the "switching operation" you might think ablut using a photo sensor to initiate the process. Simply put the photo sensor electrically reacts to light or no light. Here is a $2.00 version
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=miniature+photocell&hl=en&rlz=1R2ACAW_enUS408&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1600&bih=721&wrapid=tlif131607710731410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11284900971665379957&sa=X&ei=K75xTtziGonj0QGWw931CQ&ved=0CFoQ8wIwAA# (http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=miniature+photocell&hl=en&rlz=1R2ACAW_enUS408&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1600&bih=721&wrapid=tlif131607710731410&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=11284900971665379957&sa=X&ei=K75xTtziGonj0QGWw931CQ&ved=0CFoQ8wIwAA#)
If you were to place it somewhere on the press where it would be covered by a loaded shirt the signal could be used to activate the print station. If you missed loading the sensor would send a different signal deactivating the print station. Keep in mind these are low voltage devices and would need to be associated with a circuit with some simple switching / relay elements but all triggered by the photo cell. These cells are quite small I have seen them smaller than a dime and aboyt 1/4 inch thick.
a little less sophiscated "switching element" you possibly use every day. It is a photo sensor on your automatic garage door, When you braek the beam the door opener is tripped. This beam could be located such that the shirt would interfere with the beam.
a little simpler and less selective is the IR detector on your automatic flood lights or door opener chimes . When you walk in front of the beam you are tripping a switch that turns on the lights or sets off the alarm , keep in mind the IR element of this device is just a triggering device that signals to some following function. We have a small door chime device in our shop focused on the entry door. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Trademark-Global-2-in-1-Motion-Sensor-Alarm-and-Chime/14948014 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Trademark-Global-2-in-1-Motion-Sensor-Alarm-and-Chime/14948014)
Bottom line think what would see or not see the shirt on the platten, let that sensor trip a relay (switch), with that start you could turn on or off anything you wanted to put in the switched circuit.
mooseman
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we used to have a no shirt detector, but found that the skip shirt pedal was more reliable.
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We have one on each press and couldn't live without them.
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Rick
I am with you...I was properly trained on my auto and we do not have a no shirt detector or foot pedal...in my opinion those devices are band-aids for poor training.
Training is key here....making sure all employees who use the auto know how to properly use it is the best...
Sam
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And if you are really in need of it...slow down since you can't keep up anyway.
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No shirt detector or foot pedal is a band aide? WTF?
Are you trying to say a loader should be able to load %100 perfect all day long never a mistake?
I use our miss shirt pedal when lets say the shirt i grab is tangled up, or someone distracted me, or I need to adjust something in the menus. None of those reasons have anything to do with proper training, the skip table allows me to keep the machine running full speed and take care of other issues when needed. Other wise I need to completely stop the machine and restart every time.
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To those that use a no shirt detector. What would be the answer to my question.
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I to dont have an auto but one has to ask himself, is it cost affective and time affective to try and make one, wire it to your press and hope it works compared to just buy it from M&R and following the instructions.
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part number CP18LDNLC from honeywell is the sensor
par number cong10-s5 from carlo gavazzi is the sensor cable, but im not sure if the ends are changed to mate with sensor and press.
i dont know whether or not your press uses a different sensor or cable though.
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I don't think it would be that easy to do. Integrating it to the press would be the real hurdle after you've successfully made the unit. I wish I had more to add but I really don't other than that.
On the subject of the idea of skipping misloaded pallets or empty ones, I hate stopping the press to reload or put a missed shirt on a pallet and much prefer just hitting one of the 3 buttons we have on our main control panel to tell the press not to print on that pallet.
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It is not so much the sensor itself that is costly it is the so called stand it mounts to. If I had a pic and measurements i could build the stand, and just buy the sensor and cable from M&R.
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It is not so much the sensor itself that is costly it is the so called stand it mounts to. If I had a pic and measurements i could build the stand, and just buy the sensor and cable from M&R.
i see, im sure someone here has the stand and will share some pics.
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believe it or not you can order all the individual parts from m/r including the stand and make one for under 300. its crazy but call them and price the separate parts. they do help while training as you can pull the shirt off and the sensor reads the mylar under the pallet and shust those heads off. maybe sam will sell you the one he got with his diamond back since he doesnt use it? i would ask him..
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believe it or not you can order all the individual parts from m/r including the stand and make one for under 300. its crazy but call them and price the separate parts. they do help while training as you can pull the shirt off and the sensor reads the mylar under the pallet and shust those heads off. maybe sam will sell you the one he got with his diamond back since he doesnt use it? i would ask him..
The parts I'm seeing are like $550
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Rich..I never got one of those....or the footpedal...you honestly do not need it....
Sam
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Anatol really made it easy on there presses I have a skip pallet botton on the control head and a mash botton on print head 1. I will agree with Sam & Rick Roth that to much automation mades you lazy and forgetfull if that part fails, not saying any of you guys are lazy. I really like having the skip botton, but try my best not to have to use or rely on it.
Darryl
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I am one of those people that i I screw up a load, I have to stop and regroup and think for a second. I was never a fan of the no-shirt detector.
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Rick
I am with you...I was properly trained on my auto and we do not have a no shirt detector or foot pedal...in my opinion those devices are band-aids for poor training.
Training is key here....making sure all employees who use the auto know how to properly use it is the best...
Sam
Sorry sam, your training was incorrect. The no-shirt detector is an invaluable tool when one really understands the dynamics involved with keeping a press turning. When you stop the machine, you lose time and heat when flashing, the no-shirt allows the operator to just let the machine go so he can push ink or some other press involved task on the first few heads. Then he can jump back into loading position and keep right on going. Then when the empty boards make their way to the unloader, he can go push ink and other press tasks until his loaded boards return.
This feature is also good for adhesive application or anything that requires the machine to keep turning.
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There's a reason the world record run relied heavily on these, no?
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And to the OP, I think the smash button is a more reliable option, much less expensive, and can
likely be wired to the same port on your press.
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believe it or not you can order all the individual parts from m/r including the stand and make one for under 300. its crazy but call them and price the separate parts. they do help while training as you can pull the shirt off and the sensor reads the mylar under the pallet and shust those heads off. maybe sam will sell you the one he got with his diamond back since he doesnt use it? i would ask him..
What you are paying for is the rights to the software and not just the components. Doing what you suggest is something you might want to think twice about before you hook into that circuit!
The parts I'm seeing are like $550
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believe it or not you can order all the individual parts from m/r including the stand and make one for under 300. its crazy but call them and price the separate parts. they do help while training as you can pull the shirt off and the sensor reads the mylar under the pallet and shust those heads off. maybe sam will sell you the one he got with his diamond back since he doesnt use it? i would ask him..
What you are paying for is the rights to the software and not just the components. Doing what you suggest is something you might want to think twice about before you hook into that circuit!
The parts I'm seeing are like $550
I not trying to be a SA but does that apply to any non M&R attachment such as a flash.
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No it does not apply to attachments. The shirt detector is a patented process and as such it applies. Non patented attachments that are not covered by a patented software are free to do whatever you wish of them.
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The No shirt detector is a patented process!
However, The patent is only good for a period 20 years from the date filed which was Oct.2 1990
So, The patent holder enjoyed many years of benefits $$$$$$$$$$$$.
It is now time time to let public domain, enjoy your 20 years of protection. That is the law!
However the skip shirt pedel is a simpler/ cheaper/better option for the real world.
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Rick
I am with you...I was properly trained on my auto and we do not have a no shirt detector or foot pedal...in my opinion those devices are band-aids for poor training.
Training is key here....making sure all employees who use the auto know how to properly use it is the best...
Sam
Of course your not suppose to mess up!
You never drop a shirt, or accidentally pull two? I know our new press indexes WAY quicker than the DB you have. But if i freak something up, i just pull back and another platten will be along in moments. You can trust the detector and not worry about the platten or hitting a button or whatever. Just keep going, keep going!
Another reason we like it is for speciality platens. We can get away with having only half the platens and skip loading every other pallet.
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Hey Rich: call off the patent cops, I found a used one. Cheaper that I could have built one.
Now I need some wing flood bars. my existing ones are 16in. wide.
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Apparently i am mistaken as to the price of the m/r parts..SORRY. I do think they are nice to have though regardless of need and training.you should be able to pick up a used one for around 400 or less from someone. apparently there are alot of m/r users who dont use them. sorry about the bad info about the parts.
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Hey Rich: call off the patent cops, I found a used one. Cheaper that I could have built one.
Now I need some wing flood bars. my existing ones are 16in. wide.
No one ever said we would enforce the issue. I just posted to explain what the price really covers. Its not all about the material. Now as far as those flood bars they are up on our store at store.mrprint.com.
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Hey Rich: call off the patent cops, I found a used one. Cheaper that I could have built one.
Now I need some wing flood bars. my existing ones are 16in. wide.
No one ever said we would enforce the issue. I just posted to explain what the price really covers. Its not all about the material. Now as far as those flood bars they are up on our store at store.mrprint.com.
What issue is there to enforce? Are we to believe that The Shirt Board is about "Friendly Screen Printers" and "not so Friendly Suppliers" be nice to us 244 we are your customers.
M&R builds decent equipment for sure, but why is there always a fight over such trivial things like used equipment?
Why can't rmonks connect his wife's hairdryer up to his machine if he so chooses?
What you are paying for is the rights to the software and not just the components. Doing what you suggest is something you might want to think twice about before you hook into that circuit!
the Bold text was the part we couldn't understand, (to be honest its a big turn off for us) if the patent has lapsed since 1990 why would it matter what the rmonks guy "hook(ed) into the circuit!"
The No shirt detector is a patented process!
However, The patent is only good for a period 20 years from the date filed which was Oct.2 1990
So, The patent holder enjoyed many years of benefits $$$$$$$$$$$$.
It is now time time to let public domain, enjoy your 20 years of protection. That is the law!
However the skip shirt pedel is a simpler/ cheaper/better option for the real world.
M&R is a good company, why not simply encourage us screen printers instead of scaring us with threats of circuit hookups? Just my 2 cents
Rant over
I heard a funny one the other day, if a penny for your thoughts is all someone ask for than why do we give a double dose by offering our 2 cents? LMAO
Elvis out
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Hey Rich: call off the patent cops, I found a used one. Cheaper that I could have built one.
Now I need some wing flood bars. my existing ones are 16in. wide.
No one ever said we would enforce the issue. I just posted to explain what the price really covers. Its not all about the material. Now as far as those flood bars they are up on our store at store.mrprint.com.
What issue is there to enforce? Are we to believe that The Shirt Board is about "Friendly Screen Printers" and "not so Friendly Suppliers" be nice to us 244 we are your customers.
M&R builds decent equipment for sure, but why is there always a fight over such trivial things like used equipment?
Why can't rmonks connect his wife's hairdryer up to his machine if he so chooses?
What you are paying for is the rights to the software and not just the components. Doing what you suggest is something you might want to think twice about before you hook into that circuit!
the Bold text was the part we couldn't understand, (to be honest its a big turn off for us) if the patent has lapsed since 1990 why would it matter what the rmonks guy "hook(ed) into the circuit!"
The No shirt detector is a patented process!
However, The patent is only good for a period 20 years from the date filed which was Oct.2 1990
So, The patent holder enjoyed many years of benefits $$$$$$$$$$$$.
It is now time time to let public domain, enjoy your 20 years of protection. That is the law!
However the skip shirt pedel is a simpler/ cheaper/better option for the real world.
M&R is a good company, why not simply encourage us screen printers instead of scaring us with threats of circuit hookups? Just my 2 cents
Rant over
I heard a funny one the other day, if a penny for your thoughts is all someone ask for than why do we give a double dose by offering our 2 cents? LMAO
Elvis out
I don't think you misunderstood what I meant. We have had customers who purchased machines from others and hooked up product that caused harm to the machine and then call us saying they have an issue with the machine. We cannot troubleshoot what we don't know of. There is no problem with rmonks doing whatever he wants to his machine. He bought it used and we do no service on the machine so what he puts into the plug doesn't matter to us. There are some machines that the shirt detector option was not ordered and the circuit was not activated and there are some that the option was not ordered and got out with it activated anyhow. That is all that I was stating and yes his wife can hook up her hair dryer if he wants!! What issues of patent infringements on used equipment that are always "popping" up are you referring to? I am not aware of any.
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I've never heard of a company going after a patent infringement on an end user that fabricated his own parts....and technically, could it be patent infringement if you buy all the parts from the company? Like what if I built our Gauntlet S into a revolver, buying only parts from M&R or authorized dealers. Would that be infringement? Just wondering.
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I think some of you misunderstood Rich's statement about being careful when you plug into the circuit. He wasn't stating that he would come after anyone for building their own accessories, I think he really just meant to be careful because it could seriously screw something up.
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I think some of you misunderstood Rich's statement about being careful when you plug into the circuit. He wasn't stating that he would come after anyone for building their own accessories, I think he really just meant to be careful because it could seriously screw something up.
That is what I was trying to say. I really dont care what you plug into the machine as long as I dont have to troubleshoot it.
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I've never heard of a company going after a patent infringement on an end user that fabricated his own parts....and technically, could it be patent infringement if you buy all the parts from the company? Like what if I built our Gauntlet S into a revolver, buying only parts from M&R or authorized dealers. Would that be infringement? Just wondering.
The discussion is all about software. The revolver is strictly software. If you were to buy a interface for one of our presses and ran the revolver program without being licensed yes you would be infringing. Are we and do we go after end users that use our patents on our machines, no. Will we go after someone using our patented software on a competitors machine if warranted, yes.
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I didn't figure you guys would. And I would go after competitors over the revolver program...you guys own it and for as long as the patent is good, you should reap the rewards of your labor.
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I think some of you misunderstood Rich's statement about being careful when you plug into the circuit. He wasn't stating that he would come after anyone for building their own accessories, I think he really just meant to be careful because it could seriously screw something up.
That is what I was trying to say. I really dont care what you plug into the machine as long as I dont have to troubleshoot it.
Rich we all know that is not true! Many of us here will attest that you have called us on the weekends and in the late hours of the day to help out even when it was not your equipment (my American dryer for example). Your willingness to help and support the end user is unparalleled in this industry. It seems the idiot is trying to stir everything up again. . . Elvis has left the building!!! (permanently!)
pierre
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(http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/did%20not%20read/grand/didnt_read_fat_guy_dancing_gif.gif)
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Rick
I am with you...I was properly trained on my auto and we do not have a no shirt detector or foot pedal...in my opinion those devices are band-aids for poor training.
Training is key here....making sure all employees who use the auto know how to properly use it is the best...
Sam
And I agree with that Sam, but, poop happens, and a quick way to stop the press is a good thing. We have no detectors either, on either auto, maybe a plate gets printed once every few years, we can live with that. I figure the loader knows he missed a shirt and can stop it before something worse happens.
Steve
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I think some of you misunderstood Rich's statement about being careful when you plug into the circuit. He wasn't stating that he would come after anyone for building their own accessories, I think he really just meant to be careful because it could seriously screw something up.
That is what I was trying to say. I really dont care what you plug into the machine as long as I dont have to troubleshoot it.
Rich we all know that is not true! Many of us here will attest that you have called us on the weekends and in the late hours of the day to help out even when it was not your equipment (my American dryer for example). Your willingness to help and support the end user is unparalleled in this industry. It seems the idiot is trying to stir everything up again. . . Elvis has left the building!!! (permanently!)
pierre
Are you referring to me being an idiot. I just ask this question. I have an M&R gauntlet, and need to get a no shirt detector, I know , I know , i can buy one from M&R. I am like everyone else trying to save money , NOT cut corners.
If it is just sensors and parts, I can do it with a little guidance . Has anyone made their own.
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I think some of you misunderstood Rich's statement about being careful when you plug into the circuit. He wasn't stating that he would come after anyone for building their own accessories, I think he really just meant to be careful because it could seriously screw something up.
That is what I was trying to say. I really dont care what you plug into the machine as long as I dont have to troubleshoot it.
Rich we all know that is not true! Many of us here will attest that you have called us on the weekends and in the late hours of the day to help out even when it was not your equipment (my American dryer for example). Your willingness to help and support the end user is unparalleled in this industry. It seems the idiot is trying to stir everything up again. . . Elvis has left the building!!! (permanently!)
pierre
Are you referring to me being an idiot. I just ask this question. I have an M&R gauntlet, and need to get a no shirt detector, I know , I know , i can buy one from M&R. I am like everyone else trying to save money , NOT cut corners.
If it is just sensors and parts, I can do it with a little guidance . Has anyone made their own.
Monk, you're not paying attention. Read the thread keep responses in context. The idiot to whom Pierre referred was shown the exit and has left the building!
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Also, rmonks, didn't you find one used? That is a much better option than building your own in most cases.
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Sorry Frog, its monday I get a free pass . LOL . And yes I did find a used one. Thanks to all and to all a good day.