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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: travis.hoyme on April 18, 2015, 11:35:51 PM

Title: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: travis.hoyme on April 18, 2015, 11:35:51 PM
Can anyone tell me what's going on?

We printed grey blocker, flashed, and then printed red, blue, white, flashing between each color.  Then ran through the dryer.  Temp reading of 270. 

It looks like they're not curing!

These things are horrible to print on.



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Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Frog on April 18, 2015, 11:51:40 PM
Can anyone tell me what's going on?

We printed grey blocker, flashed, and then printed red, blue, white, flashing between each color.  Then ran through the dryer.  Temp reading of 270. 

It looks like they're not curing!

These things are horrible to print on.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn't 270 a little low for conventional inks?
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: cbjamel on April 19, 2015, 12:03:41 AM
If not poly ink then to low for sure in my mind. What type ink?
Shane
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: dirkdiggler on April 19, 2015, 09:02:14 AM
Try Augusta digital camo, way better than Badger, they are made different for better decorating results.
Title: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: travis.hoyme on April 19, 2015, 09:09:31 AM
My rep said 270 is the low end for curing the ink.  Said it should be fine.  I don't think Augusta has the Royal/Red/White digital camo.

He said that lower is better so that the dye in the jersey doesn't sublimate through the plastisol as well.


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Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Frog on April 19, 2015, 09:37:18 AM
My rep said 270 is the low end for curing the ink.  Said it should be fine.  I don't think Augusta has the Royal/Red/White digital camo.

He said that lower is better so that the dye in the jersey doesn't sublimate through the plastisol as well.


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What inks specifically, and how are you measuring the temp?
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Steve Harpold on April 19, 2015, 11:10:44 AM
Can anyone tell me what's going on?

We printed grey blocker, flashed, and then printed red, blue, white, flashing between each color.  Then ran through the dryer.  Temp reading of 270. 

It looks like they're not curing!

These things are horrible to print on.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Quick explanation that might help some....
1. standard inks from most companies are listed to cure at 320. (See ink data sheets)
However, many dryers are set at 340 - 400. This will make the ink come to temp faster and allow for the capacity desired. However considered the shot gun approach each garment type and ink type will come to different values based on the belt speed. Most likely all values higher than 320 allowing for decent results. As heat transfers to the colder object the higher the energy level in the dryer the greater chance of scorching, burning, over curing. In theory a company should set a dryer to 320-330 and take of the heat knob.  As we don't want anything to rise above 330. Problem is you would need much longer dryers to achieve this goal and still have any capacity at all.

2. Low cure inks, here lies the problem, they will fuse at 270 which is great. However the shot gun approach is a much bigger problem. Follow the above example in order to get decent results on ink that cures at 320 May dryers are set to 340 and above. When you want to cure at 270 you set the temp to 270 you will need a very long cure time for the full ink deposit to absorb enough energy and cure if you can only use 270 degrees.  If you simply raise the temp up many of advantages of the low cure ink are lost.

I hope this helps, many of these concerns and posts on this board have lead to the invention of the Fire Fly. 4/24/2015 - (The Fire Fly in full production hits the web)

Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Big Daddy D on May 19, 2015, 11:09:10 PM
I screen print alot of digital camo jerseys.  We cure them at 365 in our conveyor dryer.  We have to catch them as they come off the dryer and et them cool.  After they cool, we have no issues with the ink coming back off.  If they fall off the dryer and the paint touches itself, it tends to mess up the print.  I do not know why, but that was the easiest solution.  I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Robert Clark on May 20, 2015, 08:46:59 AM
We printed grey blocker, flashed, and then printed red, blue, white, flashing between each color.  Then ran through the dryer.  Temp reading of 270.

  Hi Travis,

    If this is not a low cure ink, then this is your problem. But if it is... Then check your dwell time. Running a low temp ink with four different colors will require a longer dwell time.. 1:15 dwell would be my guess. Not knowing your dryer it could be a bit longer. You need to bring them up SLOW N LOW.. Just like cooking BBQ : ).. now I am hungry.

     Our ELT series can help in this department. It will even fix Big Daddy's problem of shirts sticking to each other after they fall off the belt. No sticking and no ghosting with this series. Take a look at the pic below. If you have any other questions or need some help just give me a call.

This pic was sent from Rick @ Skeeter Kell
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Big Daddy D on May 20, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
Robert,

Can you tell me more about your inks?

Derek
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Robert Clark on May 20, 2015, 02:11:16 PM
Hi Derek,

   Take a look at the ELT webpage. This is an ink series that has all the bells and whistles built in.   

http://www.printelt.com/ (http://www.printelt.com/)
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: tonypep on May 20, 2015, 02:31:58 PM
LCA additive from Excalibur
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Steve Harpold on May 20, 2015, 06:52:18 PM
Hey,

Wouldn't this be great p/f/p only!

Top half washed (considered 20 washes) bottom half original

Woops, I wasn't after clean edges just testing bleeds. I will try again keeping in mind your suggestions for bleeds and smoothness. 

Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: mimosatexas on May 21, 2015, 10:01:02 AM
Why are the edges of that print so fuzzy and the finish so rough?
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: jvanick on May 21, 2015, 10:07:35 AM
you could also do matsui waterbase: underbase black, followed by white-CL on top.. with the addition of fixer-N, you can cure these puppys at 230 degrees....

they look great, and wash great... however, don't dry them in a home dryer as they will dye migrate a bit.

guessing this is the same case with any of the plastisols too?
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Robert Clark on May 21, 2015, 11:05:51 AM
 Not with the ELT. When this inks is printed right and cured right it will last. The ELT has proven itself time and time again.

 The more education we give our printers and the more the printers educate the consumer, the better off everybody is going to be. Just sending out a simple washing instruction sheet with each and every order of camo shirts the better off we will all be.

  Is it your fault the shirt bleed after washing it in hot water and drying on the hottest temperature ? No ...you did your part by printing the garment correctly and using the proper product. But in the consumers eye YOU did a bad job and you don't know what you are doing ! Now that bad print is showing up at the ball park and your name is being passed around and you are losing business, all because your customer DID NOT know how to handle this garment in the beginning  ..  So Educate your customers !
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: mk162 on May 21, 2015, 11:10:40 AM
Quote
Why are the edges of that print so fuzzy and the finish so rough?

shorter mimosa: "Why do those prints look like sh!t?"
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: mimosatexas on May 21, 2015, 12:00:43 PM
:D
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: tlopina on May 21, 2015, 04:20:49 PM
Here are some pictures of sublimated Badger shirts that we print daily with silicone with no show-through. We also print with plastisol if requested. The silicone ink we are using to block the sublimation is Rutland's Barrier Black. On our solid bodied garments there is no need to use the barrier with silicone. We are working on a training video to distribute that will show our techniques for success with silicone and plastisol.

Tom Lopina
Print Manager
Badger Sport
704-871-0990 ext 235
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Robert Clark on May 21, 2015, 04:28:35 PM
Nice looking prints Tom !
Title: Re: Digital Camo Polyester Issues
Post by: Rob Coleman on May 21, 2015, 04:30:08 PM
Hi Tom and welcome to the boards!  I am sure you can be of great value to the members here - especially in terms of printing on traditional polyester and polyester camo dye sublimated fabrics. 

Hope all is well with you, and look forward to seeing you soon.

...Rob