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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Denis Kolar on June 18, 2015, 11:52:01 AM
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This might be a stupid question, but here it is anyhow.
Just ordered new aluminum pallets from Action for my Antec Legend press.
They come with a soft top rubber on them .
Do I still use pallet tape on them? If I do, what is the purpose of the rubber? Would the paper affect it at all?
Thanks
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Two different things.
Rubber is for the softer surface that some prefer for printing, as well as heat dissipation.
Pallet tape is for easing clean-up of adhesive.
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we use those...and we put paper on them.
back in the days of spray tack we didn't use paper and then used mineral spirits to clean the platens. this hardened the rubber faster and was probably not the best thing for them.
we now use paper and waterbased tack and it's great
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Great, I use waterbase glue also.
I just did not know if the paper will affect the rubber
Thanks guys
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I can answer this very quick, put glue on that rubber top and then try and clean it after a few print runs and you'll gladly use the pallet tape after that. Having rubber tops give you a softer surface to print on and plus it helps on flash temps, wish I had rubber tops on my manual, but I know for an auto rubber top pallets is king maybe not so much for a manual.
darryl
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Great, I use waterbase glue also.
I just did not know if the paper will affect the rubber
Thanks guys
Just don't leave the tape on there too long. In our experience if we don't change it out frequently enough it can become very hard to remove. Frequently for us is probably a lot less often than most places because we are not high volume so we are changing it out every 3-6 months.
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Frequently for us is probably a lot less often than most places because we are not high volume so we are changing it out every 3-6 months.
wow, I wish I could change out the platen tape every 3-6 months... we're doing so many hoodies (even in the summer!), and performance fabric that we're switching platen tape out several times a week, if not daily.
(when printing performance fabric, you need SMOOTH platens or you'll see the lint/strings/etc telegraph into the print)
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Are you not wetting and scrubbing off the lint? I can go months with the same tape as well and refresh the glue as needed. Few squirting with water and a scrub pad and they are good as new for a long time. The glue releases all of the lint easily when wet. I have seen people apply glue over the lint but never saw the point as it still leaves a shitty print surface and scrubbing off the lint takes like 5 seconds per pallet
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we have not had good luck scrubbing the lint off here... it never leaves the platen tape clean enough?
Maybe we're doing something wrong... but the procedure i've tried in the past:
spray with water from a spray bottle.
scrub with red scrubby pad.
- just makes a sticky mess.
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we have not had good luck scrubbing the lint off here... it never leaves the platen tape clean enough?
Maybe we're doing something wrong... but the procedure i've tried in the past:
spray with water from a spray bottle.
scrub with red scrubby pad.
- just makes a sticky mess.
Are you sure you are using the right glue? Or a right tape?
Mine comes off pretty easy all the time unless I use Spray Tack for hoodies.
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we are using TexTac, but had the same problems with XenTac from Sonny.
tape was both Sonny's platen tape and something from R-Tape that we get from one of our suppliers that we have better results applying.
how wet does the platen need to be?
how do you clean up the scrubby pad?
how do you deal with the remaining glue that's there? just let it stay?
we like the platens perfectly smooth for performance fabric, and going from crappy linty gildan to performance is always a challenge.
-J
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we are using TexTac, but had the same problems with XenTac from Sonny.
tape was both Sonny's platen tape and something from R-Tape that we get from one of our suppliers that we have better results applying.
how wet does the platen need to be?
how do you clean up the scrubby pad?
how do you deal with the remaining glue that's there? just let it stay?
we like the platens perfectly smooth for performance fabric, and going from crappy linty gildan to performance is always a challenge.
-J
I spray a few spritzes, and it (usually) stays on for a rotation. Then a wipe with a scrub pad, from which the lint is picked off in a solid hunk after doing all the boards.
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yeah, there should be some glue left over...most of the time we can just warm the glue back up and run.
we use a heavily diluted degreaser...the purple stuff from sams, 1c per 5 gallons of water.
get the platens wet, not soaking, but wet.
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After hoodies, and before performance fabric we change paper too, over rubber tops.
I use Transferrite Low Tac paper in 16" wide rolls for the Gauntlet auto AND the manual, and they both have aluminum platens with the (silicone?) rubber soft tops. THIS PARTICULAR paper comes off nicely.
I was told that Buna N (Buna Nitrile, I think....) rubber sheeting is economical and pretty heat resistant. I've yet to try it, and I'm not sure where to source the adhesive. I've got to re-do a board or two and I can source the Buna N locally, in about eighth inch thick sheets.
We use waterbased adhesive whenever possible, and web spray on fleece. Web Spray is just like spray tac but comes out a little stringier than "mist" so it has less overspray.
The rubber tops tend to shrink over time. Otherwise, I really like them. All my platens have them except the homemade, odd sized MDF boards I keep around for my manual.
The fuzz comes off easily from printing normal tees. Just water and spongy scotch brite pads is what we use. Once around to soak, then scrub off the fuzz on the second round and towell off. I pick the fuzz off the scotch brite pads pretty often, but there is not a significant of adhesive that comes off the paper. Almost none...
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yeah, there should be some glue left over...most of the time we can just warm the glue back up and run.
we use a heavily diluted degreaser...the purple stuff from sams, 1c per 5 gallons of water.
get the platens wet, not soaking, but wet.
I have done my own fully accredited scientific testing of purple power vs. simple green brand cleaners. Hands down simple green is the way to go, full strength with a stiff bristle brush I picked up from tractor supply. I was a die-hard water-only advocate before making this switch, but it really is better with simple green. Purple power was WORSE than just plain water in my super scientific studies lol
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we have not had good luck scrubbing the lint off here... it never leaves the platen tape clean enough?
Maybe we're doing something wrong... but the procedure i've tried in the past:
spray with water from a spray bottle.
scrub with red scrubby pad.
- just makes a sticky mess.
I am using TexTac also and do literally exactly what you're doing, no sticky mess at all, and all that comes off is the lint, which kind of collects itself into long wet linty rolls that arent even the least bit sticky and can be pulled off the pad easily. I spray a good amount of water on before scrubbing, usually spraying all the pallets then scrubbing all the pallets, so they do soak for a few seconds i guess. I also dilute my textac before applying, usually 1 to 1 with water, which could be the main difference. I found straight textac was too tacky and needed lint buildup just to prevent image distortion when removing the shirts. Diluted it works perfectly and refreshes great after spray/scrub/flash. After scrubbing, they are pretty much good as new with basically all of the glue still on the platen, no lint at all or very little and it isn't balls or strings that would affect a print as those easily come off onto the pad. I usually can spray/scrub a good ten times at least before having to put on more glue, and after scrubbing you just flash and the glue is nice and tacky again.
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I'll try this during the afternoon print runs and see how diluting and letting them soak works.. :)
Not having to reglue would be awesome.
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I seriously can't imagine having to reglue or change tape regularly. It would suck complete ass...
That's one of the main benefits of the waterbased adhesive, once wetted it releases all the lint and a quick flash will make it good as new tackiness-wise.
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Depending on the performance material we will also retape because every little lint bump or string can show through in the print. Fortunately we do not have many customers using performance material and being in New Orleans we have a very short window in which we print fleece. I am on my way to change out the pallet tape and re-level the press as soon as I hit Post!
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I just tried letting them soak, and no luck... maybe it wasn't a sticky mess, but the platens are far from smooth... I'll try diluting the textac, as maybe that has something to do with it.
on the auto, we can change all the platen tape in less than 10 minutes, so it's really not a huge productivity waste, but it would be great to figure out what's going on.
-J
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Yea that's weird. I would start fresh with new tape, dilute the glue 1 to 1, apply, flash, and go. When you would normally change it, try cleaning instead. It should clean up very nicely. I apply with a squirt bottle like you would use for condiments, and spread with paper towel which has the benefit of cleaning up any excess. I end up with a very thin and even coating, no thick spots.
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I may be covering ground that's aleady been covered, but I'm too busy to look through the thread just now.
Applying new WB Tac over fuzz doesn't work for me. If i'm going to apply more tac, I defuzz first. Not so with spray.
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My pallets are on around the 7th or 8th cleaning I think right now with the same glue and tape, and I usually only clean the lint off each pallet after running a few hundred shirts. Each pallet will see a good 50-150 shirts depending on the brand before the tac is too low due to lint buldup to work well enough. Sometimes it can be a lot more though if I am doing one color stuff or using a brand/style that isn't too fuzzy. I know I've gotten at least 300 on a single pallet a few times. Sometimes it is WAY less like certain comfort colors and some random tanks and blends. Not sure how this compares to you auto guys, but it seems good enough for me.
I have only actually purchased one gallon of textac like 4 or 5 years ago and still havent used it up, though I am finally getting close. With diluting and refreshing the same glue so many times between reapplying, it just lasts forever.
I attached a photo of a "dirty" pallet and one post spray/scrub/flash. The photos probaby don't really do it justice showing the lint vs no lint, but it's the best I can do with my cellphone. Also have a photo of the scrub brush showing just how much came off. These were cleaned just prior to my last two runs, a 60 shirt 6 color front 1 color back run using black gildan 5000's and a 150 shirt front and back run 3 colors per side using black A980's just as an FYI.
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scrub brush with lint from the single cleaned pallet. Like crooked said, I always defuzz before ever applying more glue. Glue was probably reapplied last week sometime, maybe two weeks ago. I couldn't even tell you how long ago I changed the tape...
the lint is wet from the water, but not at all sticky.
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Jvanick if you really want your pallets nice and clean and not remove the platen tape, lightly spray the platen with screen opener or press wash, then take an old squeegee or flood bar and it all comes off very easy, you might have to re-glue but your pallet is clean. So far on our press it don't seem to hurt the platen tape at all, most times I do what every one else does with the scrub pad and water.
darryl
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Just realized I never posted back on this thread...
The 'trick' seems to be the dilution of the Textac with water (I'm using 50%-ish)... not only does it go along way now, doesn't clog the deli bottle I'm using, but with a few quick sprays of water, all the lint comes off and it's tacky again without re-applying tack.
I'm still a touch worried about when they get badly built up if they'll be smooth enough for performance fabric, but for typical t-shirt printing, it's perfect.
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Glad you got it working. I was told early on to dilute it and after testing it seemed obvious. It will last you a long time. I'm not joking about having only bought one gallon in four years and it still isn't empty. I actually use to dilute it like 75% water 25% tax but that won't be sticky enough for some brands like the dreaded comfort colors.
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Just realized I never posted back on this thread...
Thanks for the follow up. I often forget to post final thoughts.
I'm glad you've got it too! Like Mimosa, early on, somebody saved me a lot of frustration. And, I've still not QUITE used a full gallon yet either.
I'm still a touch worried about when they get badly built up if they'll be smooth enough for Performance Fabric, but for typical t-shirt printing, it's perfect.
If you use low tack paper, changing to freshen up the surface isn't so painful. I usually only change just before printing (HUCK! PHOOEY!!) Performance Blends (grrrr......) or after a largish hoodie job, requiring webspray tac. As much as I hate printing performance fabric, fresh paper with 50/50 WB liquid adhesive is MUCH better than spray tac.
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As much as I hate printing performance fabric, fresh paper with 50/50 WB liquid adhesive is MUCH better than spray tac.
you'd hate working here then... we are doing a minimum of 5 performance jobs a day right now...
Today we'll switch over to fresh paper before the afternoon's jobs, then tomorrow morning start on performance... then back to t-shirts in the afternoon.
and yes, low tack paper is the way to go for making it easy to peel.
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I'm with Jason on this, we put new pallet tape on probably weekly. We also use a stiff bristle brush to clean/wipe the pallets so that may be part of it.
One thing we did on our press with rubber top pallets, applied a layer of pallet tape to fresh rubber top(it can't have ANY lint/bumps) drew our center lines and whatever other ones that were needed. Then applied another layer of pallet tape on top of that. The bottom layer we NEVER take off(it's probably been more than 5 years at this point) only the top layer gets replaced. The pallet tape comes off another layer of pallet tape waaaaaaaaay easier than it comes off the rubber!
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Interesting posts, I might need to do what Alex did with two layers of tape.
Pallets came in yesterday, installed and pallet tape put on. Can not wait to print on them tomorrow.
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<snip> The pallet tape comes off another layer of pallet tape waaaaaaaaay easier than it comes off the rubber!
Does it stick well enough that the corners don't lift and roll up?
I tried that once, but not too seriously. I didn't much care for it, but I didn't stay with it long enough to give it a fair shake.
Here's a rabbit trail I haven't read about but surely it is a shared experience.
For me...the very 1st application of waterbased adhesive on BRAND NEW platen tape "soaks in" a lot like primer on new wood. So it always takes me 2 (or even 3) applications of adhesive to get a good grip on performance fabrics.
I am doing less and less printing on my manual these days, so I just let my Gauntlet auto-index between "coats". I use a 3" foam brush and a squirt bottle with 50-50 CCI Top Bond and water. "Warm the Shirtboards, Squirt, Brush, Flash, Repeat." It's a little slow. Maybe there is a better way. (I've only found one brand of foam brushes that are sturdy enough to survive my coating process. I buy them at True Value Hardware, and they last a very loooong time.)
My rubber tops shrink over time. Say...an eighth of an inch or maybe more. I wonder what adhesive is best to help avoid that. I need to re-do some.
Second Rabbit Trail:
Old platens develop a little "crown" with years of usage. I've never straightened my M&R style boards, but with my Hopkins (Action Engineering) aluminum boards, I've flattened "warped boards" on a hydraulic press more than once. It works okay.
I strip off the hardware first and sometimes the rubber. I use three 1-1/2" X 3" X 20" Iron Plates strategically placed lengthwise on a bottle jack press, pressing and checking results with a straight edge. A parallel support edgewise under each edge, and one standing in the middle to spread out the load the "stinger" imparts. Not for the faint of heart... It's incredible how much "spring" that stuff Action uses actually requires to re-flatten to within +/- .005 or so.
And no, I'm not NORMAL. I'll freely stipulate to that. Truing shirtboards makes NO sense to most folks. Wipe this info out of your memory banks unless you ALREADY have access to a press and a little experience. It's strictly farmboy stuff, or if you are a machine shop nerd.
PLUS I'm skeptical with M&R boards. It would likely break the bracket's adhesive bond if pressing is required to UNWARP them along their entire length. Width should be okay. I haven't even checked my old auto's boards yet, to see how warped they are. Maybe I just don't want to know. ;)
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I've never had any luck with the 2 layers of tape either.. this might be because we run low tack tape?
the 2nd layer never stuck well enough for me to be happy. I timed myself last week, to do all 12 platens, strip off old tape, put new tape on, it took me 15 minutes.
-J
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I apply with a paper towel vs a roller or brush. Much cleaner and even final product for me as the towel will soak up excess drips and what not. Never have to apply more than one coat to grip anything.
I tried the multiple layers of tape a few times with different types brands and never got it to stick well. Always bubbled on even mild flashing or curled off even when tucked under nicely vs cutting at the edge of the pallet. I finally just drew a center line on the rubber and called it a day.
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I apply with a paper towel vs a roller or brush.
Wadded up or folded?
I put centerlines and etc directly on the rubber too. I use a Permanent Magic Marker, but you can easily screw it up. Can't really fix boo boos.
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Just wadded up. I squirting a zig zag kind of in the middle then go back and forth and up and down. Finish with some circular wipes that clean up any missed or uneven areas and the inevitable streaks.