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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: DannyGruninger on July 07, 2015, 04:57:44 PM
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After some private messages, some visitors to the shop and a slew of emails I wanted to post an update on my new shop and the transition to the roq(sroque) equipment as there's been interest to hear how it has been. As I explained in an earlier post over the last several months I've been in the process of acquiring another denver based company in which was a big reason for my new building, needing more machines, more staff, etc. Basically my shop went from 5 guys to 30 guys, 50 screens a day to an average of 200 now. The scale in business, employees, artists, sales reps, among many other things has been entirely overwhelming at times but I am finally getting a handle on the changes which is making life better/good again around here. I would have considered my small 2 auto shop extremely efficient which made the first several weeks here very challenging while we were learning new presses, staff, processes, etc. I was at the point where I was becoming pretty deflated in the aspect we were not producing the numbers we should going from 2 autos to 4 autos. A big part of this was it took me several weeks to dial my i image ste cts with our new roq presses. For the first couple weeks we really struggled with setting up the presses as fast as we were setting our m&r presses up but after making some adjustments to our screens, cts, and general process we are now setting up the roq presses faster then we ever setup our previous machines. In the last 7 days we have not touched 1 micro on any of our presses. It is 100% truly a lock and load the screens in PERFECT registration. Over the last 7 days we have done over 300 setups and close to 1400 screens in which I feel is an amazing amazing number of jobs/screens to process without having to micro a screen. Over a couple years of working on the m&r system we had similar results but nothing that was this exact/repeatable. The biggest difference to me is the pallet system on the roq machines locks the pallet into place(and the same place) each and every time. Swapping pallets on the roq machines takes almost 80% less time then what it was taking us on our previous machines as well. I was a bit worried that we would not be able to setup jobs, swap pallets, or print at the speed we were in my previous shop but now that we have hit our stride we are doing everything quicker with the roq machines then we had been. One of my press operators runs a night shift for a company that has 7 mhm presses and he has stressed how much better he prefers the roq machines over the mhm's along with other companies. All the guys that I now have running presses have run everything from precision ovals, m&r's, anatols, mhm's, progressives, etc and I do not have one person here that is not overly impressed with what these machines are capable of doing. All in all, there were times where I was nervous the decision to switch to roq was not the best for me but now that we are operating and hitting our strides I feel 100% confident that I made the best decision for us. I honestly could not be happier with how the machines are running, how fast we are setting up, and the few minor issues that have arose have been taken care of by the roq/ryonet service team in great fashion. For anyone that wants to come see these machines in action or see the no micro setups for youself anyone here is more then welcome to come check them out. Combining a great cts like our m&r ste with these roq presses in my opinion is the ultimate setup considering all other packages that I know is out there. But for anyone that isn't sure about the roq machines you can be rest assured they will do what you need them to do plus much much more. Anyways, just wanted to pass along a quick update since I have been basically non existent around here for a while and have had lots of requests on how the machines are doing. We've printed a boatload of designs that once I can get caught up I will post in the whats been printed thread.
The doors are wide open for anyone who wants to come check the place out though and test drive any of our machines.
Danny
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Glad everything is working out for you Dan O, setup is one thing that can hinder the hell out of any fast past production. If we are not careful those green machines might be the next big thing.
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I wish I was closer to Denver so I could make a stop by. Maybe I'll have to schedule a skiing vacation soon!
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In for pics of the new place!
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Ive been saying for years that registration is the largest barrier to efficiencey and this proves my point.
If you're touching micros, you're wasting time.
This is the sole reason why i no longer talk about MHM being a good choice as their registration system is now defunct.
Think about teespring for a second and how much time they will lose this year twisting knobs.
Good job Danny, i'd love to visit and see for myself.
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This is the sole reason why i no longer talk about MHM being a good choice as their registration system is now defunct.
Is there significant difference in registration system between ROQ and MHM? It holds screen just on top with two pins plus airpressure against frame?
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From what I have seen there isn't much difference between the Sroque and MHM when it comes to their film registration systems and the way the screens are set on press. If the MHM sucks like John says then the SRoque would as well. Maybe they hold the screens a little differently but overall I think they use the same principles. John's statements about MHM are the first I've ever heard about their registration system not being very good. I can't see how it wouldn't be the best system out there if used properly, using film or CTS. I would think a CTS and a press that doesn't require a pallet jig to be put on/off for every setup would be the best option. Unless the press has trouble holding zero or there is slop in the pins and holders then the rest is human error if it doesn't work properly.
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I'm not familiar with the roq and how it holds the screen. Ive been told one side pins and the other is free floating like m&r so let danny fill us in.
As for mhm, the way the machine holds the screens in place is what i call positive locking. If you move the reg knobs, the next screen placed into that head will locate where the last screen was moved to, in sense moving the registration and requiring a "home". If you dont have the electro heads, your reg system moves job to job vs m&r tri loc which is free floating as the screen is located then locked into the head. If you move the reg, the next screens is not effected by the movement.
I had a top of the line CTS machine complete with pin system and i was never able to get it "just right" and my attempts to make it right were met with its good enough for us so i gave into twisting
The fact that danny is able to run job to job with zero twist is a testiment to those who wont settle for good enough.
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If you were to do it all over again, would you still go the green route, or blue?
Also, for someone deciding between the two, what would be your biggest deciding factors on what to choose?
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The SRoque has three air clamps. 2 at the front of the head that pull the screen firmly into the pins, one in the back that lock straight down on the back of the frame. To use the micros you unlock the back clamp, adjust, lock the back clamp. The front clamps never get unlocked.
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The Sroque has more than one screen locking system to choose from. They have the MHM style with pin/bushings then a U-clamp.
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Right... I was assuming he had the pin system but am probably wrong.
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Glad to hear things are going good.
Murphy37
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I wonder which one is the better option? The pin system seems great but you have to put them on every screen, and we would have them on both ends at our shop to gang images. Seems as if the U clamp would be fine and maybe you don't have to add anything to your screens??? I'd like to see a close-up of the U clamp and how it works. Is there a video out there of that?...seems like I remember one that maybe Alex did a while back.
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s.roque also has a tri loc type platen that mounts on the arms. I think there are 3 or more overall options for screen positioning. Maybe Danny can fill us in when he finds time on which one he selected and why.
John, I could not agree more that in this day and age we should not be fiddling with micros. I hate, just abhor it actually.
And that's an interesting point of view on the MHMs. I'm surprised to hear that your MHMs were not regging up when using CTS especially. I understand the zeroing out issue but many MHM users have noted that the adjustments are so minor from screen to screen and job to job that zeroing is not an issue. I personally like to zero a press after every job but I get that this won't happen in high production sometimes. in any case, the s.roque would be no different than the MHM in this sense unless someone elected to use their 3 point/tri loc style setup.
Congrats on the successful expansion Danny, that's one hell of a jump in size!
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We have a universal(U-clamp system) on all the machines here.....It can accept pin lock tabs which go on all screens - but I have not tested this system yet....... I am currently using just a normal clamping system along with a pallet that matches our cts machine(real similar to a tri loc)...... I've attached some photos of our "special registration pallet" which works similar to the m&r tri loc. The points where the screens touch the pallet stop blocks is opposite of a tri loc though and the entire thing is adjustable for different screen sizes. I wanted a system that was as close to what I was use to in the past with the tri loc so this is what we are using right now. Yes you have to introduce a pallet to the press(not for much longer though) but we have not touched a micro in 8 straight days now. There were times with our tri loc where it was super good and we werent touching micros for long periods of times but nothing that is like we are now. This system is so frickin fast that I would not think about doing anything else right now.....
Attached are a few pics showing the pallet, the stop blocks, etc.......
With the pin tab system it should be slightly faster but I'm not ready to change to that system yet as we are so dialed on the way we are using the special reg pallet that I don't want to go backwards for any period of time. The big key to why these roq presses work so good with the cts is the when you lock the pallet on the press it has zero movement/flex at all. I can then take the pallet off the press, put it back on and I'm 100% confident it's in the same spot before I took it off..... The system is absolutely awesome
All in all combining a good cts with the roq presses is the absolute best system for setup that I have touched. The guys that I have here that worked in my old shop along with the guys that have ran mhm their entire careers all tell me the same thing LOL
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If you were to do it all over again, would you still go the green route, or blue?
Also, for someone deciding between the two, what would be your biggest deciding factors on what to choose?
I'm not here to take sales away from anyone..... When I ran my blue stuff it worked awesome, we had great results with it, and the service from m&r is unmatched. I will never take anything away from Rich or his guys as there's nothing bad I can say about them or any of their products. The cts from them that we use is still the heart of my shop and without that no matter what presses we are using I feel we would be fighting a battle with setups daily. But with that said if I had to do it all over again yes I would 100% not change a thing. I am so impressed with the roq presses, and how we are setting them up that no doubt in my personal opinion for my shop it's a better for us using the green stuff. As for someone deciding between the two there's so many factors that come into play I would have to look at each situation and know the details but from my experience I am SOLD on the green machines. If I was starting another shop tomorrow with unlimited budgets I would be calling roq and ordering everything I could, just my opinion of course....All in all I could not be happier with the machines from roq.
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s.roque also has a tri loc type platen that mounts on the arms. I think there are 3 or more overall options for screen positioning. Maybe Danny can fill us in when he finds time on which one he selected and why.
John, I could not agree more that in this day and age we should not be fiddling with micros. I hate, just abhor it actually.
And that's an interesting point of view on the MHMs. I'm surprised to hear that your MHMs were not regging up when using CTS especially. I understand the zeroing out issue but many MHM users have noted that the adjustments are so minor from screen to screen and job to job that zeroing is not an issue. I personally like to zero a press after every job but I get that this won't happen in high production sometimes. in any case, the s.roque would be no different than the MHM in this sense unless someone elected to use their 3 point/tri loc style setup.
Congrats on the successful expansion Danny, that's one hell of a jump in size!
I had the system thissssss close as some jobs were dead nutz after homing but as the day went on and you did minor adjustment here and there was one more step away from home. I like to reset the press as well but for a 16 color machine, thats a few mins per head, per day to set back to home.
After the LB ISS show i had some info from the CTS people to make it better but never had the chance to fix it as i left shortly thereafter.
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I like the versatility of the registration pallet. Is there a micro adjustment on the back clamp?
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I like the versatility of the registration pallet. Is there a micro adjustment on the back clamp?
No micros on the back screen holder. I'd be curious to know how many shops actually use the rear micro. We had them on our ch3 but never touched them ever lol
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had them on presses for the last 18 years, and I have never touched one.
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I like the versatility of the registration pallet. Is there a micro adjustment on the back clamp?
There is no need for one, it is in the center and simply provides additional support if you will, for locking the screen in.
Is there a video out there of that?...seems like I remember one that maybe Alex did a while back.
Well Alan, while I am flattered you remembered my video(at least the one I made public ;) ) It was actually a video of the press hitting me on the ass. One of my oh so talented employees actually made a remix video of it along with some music..... Airways a good laugh!
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I like the versatility of the registration pallet. Is there a micro adjustment on the back clamp?
No micros on the back screen holder. I'd be curious to know how many shops actually use the rear micro. We had them on our ch3 but never touched them ever lol
Our Sportsman EX has the back micros, but never use them either.
I have been "Just a Swingin" the arc for so long, it seems natural.
Trying to dial our Tri-Loc in and seems like 75% are on, but think the frames that are off may lie in
the exposure blanket draw down pushing/pulling ever so slightly on the spring plungers in different directions.
Even thinking on trying to keep tabs on where we put the rope in on which frame leg to see if the
air draw where the rope lets air inside frame pulls against plungers. Seems like it is the only thing left
as to where the frames can be off. Any thoughts?
Seeing some of the racing picts awhile back, Danny does have a head for exactness knowing those racing kind.
You are an inspiration to us all Mr. G.
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If you were to do it all over again, would you still go the green route, or blue?
Also, for someone deciding between the two, what would be your biggest deciding factors on what to choose?
I'm not here to take sales away from anyone..... When I ran my blue stuff it worked awesome, we had great results with it, and the service from m&r is unmatched. I will never take anything away from Rich or his guys as there's nothing bad I can say about them or any of their products. The cts from them that we use is still the heart of my shop and without that no matter what presses we are using I feel we would be fighting a battle with setups daily. But with that said if I had to do it all over again yes I would 100% not change a thing. I am so impressed with the roq presses, and how we are setting them up that no doubt in my personal opinion for my shop it's a better for us using the green stuff. As for someone deciding between the two there's so many factors that come into play I would have to look at each situation and know the details but from my experience I am SOLD on the green machines. If I was starting another shop tomorrow with unlimited budgets I would be calling roq and ordering everything I could, just my opinion of course....All in all I could not be happier with the machines from roq.
What if you did not have unlimited budget? What are the price comparisons between the two brands.
Most people I know, as I am sure you also have, a certain budget to follow! Is the value still there?
As you were/are a racer, a driver is happy with a certain name example (ford vs chevy vs yugo)
The driver changes gear! Is it performance based, cost based, or struck a new deal based?
Or all of the above. This would also weigh the opinion.
Good Luck!
winston
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struck a new deal based! ;)