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Artist => General Art Discussions => Topic started by: theMadArtist on July 19, 2015, 11:28:32 PM
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So much of the art I see printed makes me scream "What the-"!
Cheap looking clip art? Really?
Even if you have to taper down your profit margin PROMOTE yourself by printing designs that will impress, rather than bore! 8)
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How does this matter if most artwork is provided by the customer in the first place. Do you suggest to tell them "oh that`s pretty cheap looking" fancy trying something different. I think a lot of them will not come back, as they consider their designs to be good.
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The customer is always right because he/she have the money. If you are in it to make a profit then print the best image of crappy art you can. If you are in it to make a statement then the money and the customer do not matter and you are completely correct......some customers are clueless
mooseman
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We advise our customers when something could be "improved", and it's done with the utmost care to not insult them. I did a job this spring that was pretty rude, for a charity yet. So I took the crappy jpeg, and applied what I've learned to smooth them out and clean them up, and printed the shirts and had a happy customer. If I show them the jaggy lines and how rough they are, they usually are OK with a modest art charge. I do see a lot of "I would not do that..." art out there, but it's a big world with different folks with different needs, so we try to accommodate them. Today fortunately, we have a really nice looking 3 color going for a local Shakespeare festival we print for annually.
Steve
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we've been doing more and more contract printing... our new motto is whatever the customer wants... we can't post pics of much of what we produce anyways, so I really don't care if it's cool art or not.
Unfortunately we don't have a great artist on staff for the stuff we produce in house, but that's not the focus of our business, so good enough has to be good enough.
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we are in the same boat here. Our artist turns out GREAT stuff...but it boils down to 2 things...what the customer wants and what the customer is willing to pay for.
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We do a lot of our own art here but our problem is small runs, we do 12 piece runs per namedrop so we sometimes have to "dumb" our stuff down in order to be more efficient on the production side. I personally wouldn't buy a lot of the designs we sell but the masses seem to enjoy them and that's all that really matters in the end, sales are sales.
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When you print a shirt for someone, from the typical viewing distance is the person looking at the artwork or the print?
;)
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The customer is always right because he/she have the money. If you are in it to make a profit then print the best image of crappy art you can. If you are in it to make a statement then the money and the customer do not matter and you are completely correct......some customers are clueless
mooseman
True- but even it can often be tweaked!
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Outstanding, Sbrem!
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We try and make every effort to give the customer what they want even if there art is crap we try and shine it up, I'm going to ask a question but I'll start another thread so as to not highjack this one.
darryl
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Outstanding, Sbrem!
thanks
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So much of the art I see printed makes me scream "What the-"!
Cheap looking clip art? Really?
Even if you have to taper down your profit margin PROMOTE yourself by printing designs that will impress, rather than bore! 8)
Lets see some of the art that impresses... And then let us know the cost of that art and how long it took to get the art done.
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So much of the art I see printed makes me scream "What the-"!
Cheap looking clip art? Really?
Even if you have to taper down your profit margin PROMOTE yourself by printing designs that will impress, rather than bore! 8)
Lets see some of the art that impresses... And then let us know the cost of that art and how long it took to get the art done.
Well, let's hope that if that is forthcoming, it's in a more appropriate place to promote his business, like Product and Business Promotion, or soon when Mad has made enough posts to become verified, in the Member to Member Art Services section.
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So much of the art I see printed makes me scream "What the-"!
Cheap looking clip art? Really?
Even if you have to taper down your profit margin PROMOTE yourself by printing designs that will impress, rather than bore! 8)
Lets see some of the art that impresses... And then let us know the cost of that art and how long it took to get the art done.
Well, let's hope that if that is forthcoming, it's in a more appropriate place to promote his business, like Product and Business Promotion, or soon when Mad has made enough posts to become verified, in the Member to Member Art Services section.
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They said they had 200 in the budget, I asked if they could make it 400 for spectacular- that they'd owe NOTHING if they didn't love it.
They loved them both, and promptly paid me....
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It's the CONCEPT, as well as the art....
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It's the CONCEPT, as well as the art....
Your designs are an improvement from the originals. From what your showing you did not change the concept of the design. So you can't take credit for the concept. I have to say I was expecting more. Your designs have a clip art type color plate to them that is ironic. (you said how much you hate cheap clip art} I looked at your location because I have a hard time believing your in the USA. Your art has the look of a designer from India or china. They always use bright colored vector art with black outlines and gradient color mixes with bright colors. Your colors are not as pastel as the ones you see from India. I am only saying these things to help. Call it a critique of your work to help you improve.
Keep in mind the color count of your art. In our world your designs would cost $$$ with that many colors.
Hope I wasn't too hard on you.
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No- I am completely tactless myself, and appreciate such candor. Comparing me to China's quite a compliment (heh).
It's their pricing that's killing businesses here that used to offer such services.
The "concept" I was referring to was Design, not layout.
Have samples of YOUR (or your artist's) work that illustrate your tastes?
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No- I am completely tactless myself, and appreciate such candor. Comparing me to China's quite a compliment (heh).
It's their pricing that's killing businesses here that used to offer such services.
The "concept" I was referring to was Design, not layout.
Have samples of YOUR (or your artist's) work that illustrate your tastes?
We don't do art here for customers. Takes too much time and the customer will never pay what it is worth. Much like the complaints you have with cost of art. I was a designer for many years so I understand your frustrations with art/pay. I have to say that I am much happier just being a screen printer. I just saw your other posts and the sketch work you do is great. Keep it up and you will find plenty of work. One piece of advice is don't waist your time doing work for people that don't appreciate/pay for it. Just find people that already understand your worth. I spend years working for the wrong clients trying to make good money. When I got smart I started working for the right clients and made 3 times the money for half the work.
Art is a hard market these days.
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Why, thanks, TG- and congrats on finding your niche.
Being a Freelance Artist was the Last Damned Thing I wanted to be; but living in the Florida Rat Race, I failed to find a company worth staying at!
Too bad I never made it to Washington sooner!
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Inked in on acetate in the days before computer graphics; was especially proud of the Idea~
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We did some of that back then; we would contact them to film in the darkroom so we didn't have to worry about scratches of flaking. Whatever it took pre-digital...
Steve
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That's for sure- whatever it took!
touch the wrong spot on the acetate, and the ink would bead up, using transfer letters- I'd run to the art supply to buy another sheet, or tey to hand draw the letter on the film if running out on the transfer sheet!
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It's the CONCEPT, as well as the art....
Your designs are an improvement from the originals. From what your showing you did not change the concept of the design. So you can't take credit for the concept. I have to say I was expecting more. Your designs have a clip art type color plate to them that is ironic. (you said how much you hate cheap clip art} I looked at your location because I have a hard time believing your in the USA. Your art has the look of a designer from India or china. They always use bright colored vector art with black outlines and gradient color mixes with bright colors. Your colors are not as pastel as the ones you see from India. I am only saying these things to help. Call it a critique of your work to help you improve.
Keep in mind the color count of your art. In our world your designs would cost $$$ with that many colors.
Hope I wasn't too hard on you.
Not to stir the pot or be mean, but I have to agree. Most of what I've seen so far looks like slapped together clip art with the all too common overuse of bright outlines and strange textures. Looks very much like what you get when you go to sites like fiverr or what I get as samples from the "we make gud tshirts designs for cheap" emails I get every day.
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Inked in on acetate in the days before computer graphics; was especially proud of the Idea~
I do like this one though :)
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The only thing wrong about modern clipart- is that it is not CUSTOM. It's much better than it USED to be.
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Call me crazy but you guys talk about clipart like it is a BAD thing. Clip art is what probably allows 90 percent of the printers out there to stay in business. There is also a big difference in "types" of clip art and like everything else you get what you pay for. I have tons of the stuff and use it on a daily basis because that is what my customers have for an art budget. I am not an artist nor do I have a fancy degree in graphic design but I am smart enough to put a design together for a t shirt that sells. I also have a good assortment of artwork from Great Dane Graphics and I love printing their designs.... but guess what? Most of them are 6 to 7 colors and most of my customers can't handle the pricing for that many colors. I will often throw in a couple of 3 or 4 colors at no charge just to show the community what we are capable of doing and it is beginning to pay off. We have even been able to purchase a couple of jobs from our friend Lemorris.... Do I like using clip art... no. Does it make me money.... yes. But whenever possible I like to use the services of the REAL artists out there... not sure what my point was with this rant... other than the fact that most of us are forced to use clip art.
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I have no problem with clipart. I use clipart and stock elements on TONS of stuff and you are completely right that it is all most people are willing to pay for...
I think people (myself included) were just clarifying that there is a difference between real "art" (usually involving custom illustration and colorizing) vs doing layout design using stock art and adding some filters and effects. I put together designs everyday similar to what MadArtist has been posting (though with fewer colors due to budgets and not so much random neon glow-y stuff), but I would not call them "art".
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C'mon. You mean that having your artist do something a LITTLE bit better wouldn't make any difference? That your rep for shirt art is based solely on ON the clip art?
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I'm a one man shop so I am my artist. My rep is based on the whole package, from art to print quality, to turn around timw, to my relationship with clients, to pricing, etc. All of my business is also word of mouth :)
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I use clipart occasionally for components of designs, it's the integration and assembly of the whole that make or break the finished design. Bad art we call "clipart collages" when people use 3-4 pieces of clipart without imagination or consideration for cohesion of the end result.
I'm no artist, but I'm great at graphic assembly and layout. What I consider a true "Artists" tend to come with attitude and often some drama as they tend to treat the project as "theirs". I just do what the client wants, whether they like my suggestions or not is immaterial.
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I'm a one man shop so I am my artist. My rep is based on the whole package, from art to print quality, to turn around timw, to my relationship with clients, to pricing, etc. All of my business is also word of mouth :)
Outstanding!
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I'm a one man shop so I am my artist. My rep is based on the whole package, from art to print quality, to turn around timw, to my relationship with clients, to pricing, etc. All of my business is also word of mouth :)
Outstanding!
Also outstanding! The artists I've met I couldn't STAND! Heh!@
I'm more of a salesman than an artist....since people offered me money to draw, I do it.....
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I'm a one man shop so I am my artist. My rep is based on the whole package, from art to print quality, to turn around timw, to my relationship with clients, to pricing, etc. All of my business is also word of mouth :)
Outstanding!
Also outstanding! The artists I've met I couldn't STAND! Heh!@
I'm more of a salesman than an artist....since people offered me money to draw, I do it.....
This is why I call myself an ARTER, as opposed to artist; I only do it for customers, my personal time I play music. "I'm an Artist!" (pronounced very dramatically) kills me. One's work speaks for itself, without the "I'm so special" bit to go along with it.
Regarding clip art, a lot of it is very good, and serves the purpose. I'll get jpegs a customer snags off the web, and I can tell it was vector, and is usually available for $10 from Shutterstock or similar art houses; it saves a ton of time and the customer gets exactly what they want. We also design from scratch, and get paid for it. So very often, it's that clip art, plus adding text; make it look great and your reputation will grow.
Steve
Steve
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All I'm saying, is that when the customer gives you art to print that's not very good, jazzing it up a little will add to your good reputation....
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All I'm saying, is that when the customer gives you art to print that's not very good, jazzing it up a little will add to your good reputation....
I agree 100% with that statement.... There are times when the customer brings in a POS art or an idea for a shirt that we will refuse to print solely because we don't want people to see stuff like that coming from our shop. Not talking PC stuff but just crap in general. At that time we show them what is possible and usually are able to get the job done with the resources we have available at a price that is agreeable with them= clip art. I think that most small shops like Mimosa, myself and countless others take great pride in what we do and will go to any means to turn out better than average work and when the budget allows we do spend that extra 2 or 3 hundred for a quality artist to make our work look even better. But for us to shovel our work off to someone else just because they can make it look nicer is not always an option.
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you wouldn't believe how many people i've offending by politely recommending we can print a better design.
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you wouldn't believe how many people i've offending by politely recommending we can print a better design.
It's like telling your mom her dress is ugly. Even if it's true there's no way to say it nicely and it will never go over well.
If client seems open to suggestion we certainly do, but otherwise stay quiet.
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I rarely change finished looking client supplied art unless I know the client is already open to me doing my thing or hints at being open to changes. Typically they either have a "designer" on staff, have already paid someone to make the art, or made it themselves and are proud of it. If I suggested changes to all the shitty art I see I would lose business rather than gain it, I can guarantee it.
That said, it is pretty easy usually to tell when someone is open to improvement. Usually, people will simply tell you, by saying something like "you're the expert so if you want to spruce it up that would be great" if they are open to changes, or they will simply provide clearly unfinished art or just the elements and the text and ask you to put them together, which of course opens up the opportunity for improving it. Pretty much any time I get a file in word/powerpoint, a screenshot from custom ink, art that uses default system fonts, or full color clip art when they only want to pay for one or two colors it is usually obvious that they are open to changes. In those cases I usually say something like "this will have to be remade due to the format or the resolution, or will need adjustments to make it print well." Gauge their reaction, then ask clarifying and leading questions like "Did you want this particular font or did you have another style of font you might like that would fit the style of the image?" If they say yes I want the original font, you say "of course, no problem, but do you happen to have the name so I can recreate it to your liking?".
It's about baby steps and leading questions that seem like you're just trying to help them see their vision while giving them the opportunity to suggest they are open to changes. You can tell pretty quickly usually if someone wants it pixel for pixel vs something you "fix". If they are at all open to changes I usually try to go all out (within reason and based on discussions with the client) to make it something I am proud to print. In those cased they are THRILLED at the results 99.9% of the time in my experience.
larry: I definitely do not turn down work due to horrible art, but I also wouldn't show it off in my shop or on social media etc. I have printed some terrible, terrible art, sometimes even after suggesting changes and being shot down. business is still business :D The ones that drive me crazy are awkward layouts, like when text that should be centered is off center for no reason, or when you have curved text along a path around a circle and the path doesnt line up with the circle, or line spacings are inconsistent in multi-line text. I usually will ask if the file is correct, usually suggesting that it could be an issue with file formatting on different computers, but sometimes people just want it to be "wrong" because it matches other stuff they have printed in the past or because they can't admit they made a mistake. They want to pay for it though, fine with me.
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In the end we all provide a service, which is printing a customers design onto their choice of garments. Now if they would want us to add another service to it which is redesigning their artwork I`m sure the majority of clients would tell so right away. But to suggest to someone that their art is not worth the garment its going to be printed on, well I find pretty disrespectful close to insulting. I don`t think any right minded customers cares if you feel badly represented by printing his art. And anyway who says that your interpretation of his artwork meets the clients taste in the first place? It`s such a designers arrogance I can feel here.
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When I'm given art that needs to be vectorized- I ALWAYS take the time to tweak it, making subtle changes to make it look better. In over 30 years I have NEVER had a customer reject it, complain about it, or have me crap-it back as the original. Usually, but not always, they tell the printer what a great job they did!
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I remember in the early 80s- before computer graphics for screen printing, I hand stippled this on acetate to be printed in white ink on a navy blue sweater- and the printer thanked me profusely telling me how they RAVED about it. Between my wanting to do great art, and the fact that that printer had done ME a lot of favors- I put FAR more time into it than what I was paid...but it brought me a LOT of work!
It looked better than THIS; this is from a photo of the art and a test print on black....
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The printer decided to add ivory for the moon- and it sizzled!