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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Shanarchy on August 08, 2015, 04:58:26 PM
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I am currently using a 1700 psi/1,4 gpm Greenworks pressure washer I got from Lowes. I have no issues with it. I have never used one of the bigger more expensive units. I have heard some people who have them find them to be better. I'd like to know what, if anything, I am missing. If I was to but a more expensive unit what should I expect to see different, and which model do you recommend, and approximate price.
Is the RhinoSpray RS1500SA just a re-branded CamSpray 1500A?
My question is for only those who have used both the box store pressure washers and the more expensive ones.
Thanks!
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I started with one of the karcher ones from menards and burned it up in around a year.. then changed over to the harbor freight ones that would generally last us 6 months or so... these were the 1400psi-ish ones.
In June after having yet another HF unit fail, we bought a refurbed Landa 1000psi - 2.9gpm belt drive commercial unit.
It's worth every penny. It cleans the screens better and cleans faster. Even though it's rated at 1000psi, it has much more cleaning power than the so-called higher psi junky units. Ours has a timer on it, if you don't run the wand for a minute, it auto shuts off.
It's also much quieter when running. The entire thing is rebuildable, and ours is in a stainless steel chassis, so nothing to rust.
Do it. You'll be glad you did.
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We've been using a Karcher for the best part of a year. No problems so far but it's a bit noisy. Still, cost us $120, it does its job perfectly. Not sure if I would spend $600/900 for a commercial one
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We've been using a Karcher for the best part of a year. No problems so far but it's a bit noisy. Still, cost us $120, it does its job perfectly. Not sure if I would spend $600/900 for a commercial one
How many screens are you doing per day?
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The rhinospray looks very much like the 1500A here. It's a very old design, but that's not a bad thing, per se.
I really like the 1500, but we've had issues with the reclaim help either not turning the water on, not turning the water off, or leaving it running without using it for too long. Fortunately, it still hasn't self destructed, but realize you need to take care of it if you want it to be a decent investment. The wands IME have been crap as well--still looking for a truly good one.
That being said, the cheap ones just plain stink, IMHO. The 1500 has ratings similar to the crappy home cheapo models I've run, but absolutely destroys them in speed/efficiency. I'd also add that if you want to do even better, as jvanick implied, it's the GPM that cleans the screen faster.
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I am a fairly low volume shop, maybe 30 screens a week. (Don't judge me...) I have had a cheapo Walmart model for 3 years now and it is still going strong.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We've been using a Karcher for the best part of a year. No problems so far but it's a bit noisy. Still, cost us $120, it does its job perfectly. Not sure if I would spend $600/900 for a commercial one
How many screens are you doing per day?
I'd say about 6/7 a day
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here is the unit we bought. It is relatively quiet, very compact. Over the last 6 or 7 years we have had 2 or 3 washers. When and if this one blows out I will go out and buy the same exact one again. By the way it costs $99.00
If you don't like the specific model here you should look at the brand in general we are quite impressed with the unit we have.
Qualifications we are a small one man shop, I operate everything, clean about 4-6 screens a day.
mooseman
http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/AR-AR118-Pressure-Washer/p2765.html?utm_source=google+shopping&utm_medium=shop+portals&utm_campaign=AR118&gclid=CN6crP71m8cCFckYHwodNm4MQw (http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/AR-AR118-Pressure-Washer/p2765.html?utm_source=google+shopping&utm_medium=shop+portals&utm_campaign=AR118&gclid=CN6crP71m8cCFckYHwodNm4MQw)
http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/quick_search.php (http://www.pressurewashersdirect.com/quick_search.php)
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This is kind of like a carpenter asking when to buy a circular saw or an air nailer.
Of course you can keep doing it with what you have, but how much more efficient could you be with better tools.
It is all about throughput of consistent stuff, does not matter if you are building a workbench or reclaiming screens.
If you build one bench the hand tools are more than good enough, if you are in the business of building workbenches automate.
If you think you are a screenprinter accept the fact that you are more of a screen maker than a screenprinter and do everything possible to improve your screen loop.
ESPECIALLY if you are a mid-sized growing screenprinter a better pw can save you 2-3 minutes per screen, EVERY SCREEN.
My 2 cents,
~Kitson
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ESPECIALLY if you are a mid-sized growing screenprinter a better pw can save you 2-3 minutes per screen, EVERY SCREEN.
^^^ This right here is VERY true... I feel we save at least 2 minutes a screen due to the fact that you can take about a 6-7" strip of emulsion each pass of the wand.. I literally can clean the emulsion off of an entire 23x31 screen in about 10-15 seconds.
however I will add if you're doing less than 10 screens or so a day, the el-cheapo pressure washers are just fine.
when you are doing 20-30 a day, you'll get less than 5-6 months out of the cheapo units.
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when you are doing 20-30 a day, you'll get less than 5-6 months out of the cheapo units.
looking forward to see ours break down after 5 months :)
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Some folks can equip their shop with all the finest equipment and never make a dime.....Others can put stuff together on a "shoe string" and be rolling in dough..What you need to do for your operation may not be anything anyone else does....So just do what you think feels right....
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What you need to do for your operation may not be anything anyone else does....So just do what you think feels right....
Sometimes things may feel right because you don't know any better ;) that's why sometimes I am annoying and keep asking stuff on the forum. It has helped me immensely and I am sure Shanarchy will have a better understanding of what to do when his washer breaks down
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Some folks can equip their shop with all the finest equipment and never make a dime.....Others can put stuff together on a "shoe string" and be rolling in dough..What you need to do for your operation may not be anything anyone else does....So just do what you think feels right....
This is the best sage wisdom of all time......this should be rubber stamped onto EVERY question that starts out what do you think....do...buy....use.....
mooseman
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We recently upgraded our reclaim pressure washer and agree with the 2-3 minutes per screen time saving. I also feel we are getting cleaner screens with less effort and time.
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So far the people who have upgrade are convincing me to do so.
Basing it on a 2-3 minute time saving per screen and a $10/hr worker cleaning screens, a $1000 pressure washer would pay for itself in 2000-3000 screen reclaims.
I'd rather do it now while our Greenworks is still working and we can keep that as a backup.
So what brand/models are you using and recommending (for the better models not the box store variety)?
Thanks!
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Greg Kitson has a place right next to him that builds them, I'm sure he can get you the contact info.
I bought mine from Lorchem in Elgin, IL... they're local and 2 of my good friends work there... they were able to get me a deal on a Landa refurb unit (refurb price before discount was around $1100 for a 1000psi 3gpm unit).
someone else on the forum has the big-brother to mine and is happy with it as well.
short list of the features on our unit.
110v 20a 2hp motor... belt drive... stainless steel housing... auto shutoff... fully rebuildable pump.
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This is kind of like a carpenter asking when to buy a circular saw or an air nailer.
Of course you can keep doing it with what you have, but how much more efficient could you be with better tools.
It is all about throughput of consistent stuff, does not matter if you are building a workbench or reclaiming screens.
If you build one bench the hand tools are more than good enough, if you are in the business of building workbenches automate.
If you think you are a screenprinter accept the fact that you are more of a screen maker than a screenprinter and do everything possible to improve your screen loop.
ESPECIALLY if you are a mid-sized growing screenprinter a better pw can save you 2-3 minutes per screen, EVERY SCREEN.
My 2 cents,
~Kitson
Great advice Greg, and the only other person who might have said it better was Tim Allen
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I can only add to the "buy a good one" crowd, I've had only 3 pressure washers in 40 years, the current one is at least 25 years old, having been rebuilt once, a replacement pump only, the motor won't die. A quality unit will run forever, and that'll be one less thing on your mind.
Steve
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As the saying goes, if it isn't broken, don't fix it.
We upgraded to a pricey unit only after we started going through the $99 units about every other month.
If yours is working fine for you, I don't see a reason to upgrade. Until you start burning them up on a regular, I'd stick with what you have.
Also, consider the investment. If you have $1k to put on a better pressure washer, where might that $1k better serve you right now?
Just adding another perspective.
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I would also suggest taking a good look at GPM on any unit you are considering, not just the PSI.
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a lot of the cheaper units are over-rated on their PSI and GPM. I have a camspray 1500 and I will say it wears my arm out compared to the 1400 psi backup unit I have. Same GPM rating too. But the camspray will kick through some screens compared to the other one.
when this one needs rebuilding again I will buy another one to keep at the house. These are great for small decks and walkways. I wouldn't dare do driveway with one. Also, with a 45 degree tip you can clean your shower grout with them. ;)
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Anyone here is welcome to come to my shop and take ours for a spin... heck, bring your el-cheapo one and you can side by side them...
-J
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So what brand/models are you using and recommending (for the better models not the box store variety)?
I love my Hydro-Engineering HydroBlaster. 3000 PSI, 3gpm...you can easily rip the emulsion off without even using chemical. I don't recommend that, but it works in a pinch.
Hell, I think you could probably take skin off with that thing...plus having the pressure adjuster on the handle in handy.
It's also awesome for developing HD screens for glitter and HD studs, etc. Saves hours a week for that alone. Soak it, blast it with that, done in 5-10 minutes.
We tried the "high end" electric models from Grainger, with supposedly higher pressure and gpm, but, pffft, as has been mentioned already they are definitely over rated...and Mi-T-M makes good stuff...just not as good as H.E. Quiet, reliable, powerful and also a goddamned bargain. The "3000psi 4gpm" Mi-T-M was $3500, if I recall correctly. The HE Hydroblaster was the best $1500 I've spent in years.
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We had the CCI unit for about 7 years, and it crapped out so we bought the Greenworks from Lowes to get us by till we bought a good one. We went through 5 of the Greenworks units in less than a year and now we have a good unit (that we paid way too much for but that's another story you've all heard, don't buy it from Grainger). We saved several minutes per screen AT LEAST so several hours a week by using a better PW, and you can get one like we have for $600 or so.
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Anyone tried one of these: http://www.lowes.com/pd_637718-348-020601_0__?productId=50328563 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_637718-348-020601_0__?productId=50328563)
I can get it for $180 with a coupon. Huge GPM and ok PSI. I still use the same two $79 greenworks units I got a lowe's years ago and have had zero issues with them, but would love to take off 8" strips instead of 2-3" strips...
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Hell, I think you could probably take skin off with that thing...plus having the pressure adjuster on the handle in handy.
Did that one time in college (40+years ago). I was cleaning a motorcycle engine "cylinder" at a commercial carwash, and laid my left thumb WIDE open with the water from the wand.
Not just a little cut...
I. Was. Injured.
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We had the CCI unit for about 7 years, and it crapped out so we bought the Greenworks from Lowes to get us by till we bought a good one. We went through 5 of the Greenworks units in less than a year and now we have a good unit (that we paid way too much for but that's another story you've all heard, don't buy it from Grainger). We saved several minutes per screen AT LEAST so several hours a week by using a better PW, and you can get one like we have for $600 or so.
I would build my own at this point; a good motor, pump and gun from Grainger is pretty much what ours is, and as I said, over 25 years old...
Steve
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My last cheapo bought the farm a month or so ago. I wound up with a Northern (115V electric) model that was about 700. I think it was worth every penny. I can back off a ways and "develop" my screens much faster, or up close and reclaim my Diazo based WR25 SOOOOOO much faster.
I can't believe how many hobby class units we went through, not to mention the time wasted. The time is the bigger loss, for sure.
Penny Wise yet Pound Foolish, those cheapies. YMMV.
We're too big for one of those now, but too small for 3 or 4 thousand. Should have done this years ago.
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My last cheapo bought the farm a month or so ago. I wound up with a Northern (115V electric) model that was about 700. I think it was worth every penny. I can back off a ways and "develop" my screens much faster, or up close and reclaim my Diazo based WR25 SOOOOOO much faster.
I can't believe how many hobby class units we went through, not to mention the time wasted. The time is the bigger loss, for sure.
Told ya :)
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I don't want to overstate this. We made money with those dumb hobby units.
BUT DANG! I no longer HATE the reclaim process.
I waited a month to post my opinions, just cuz. I have to say I dislike myriad reviewers posting about a gun I am interested in (or whatever), how excited they are ON DAY FIVE!, only to find out the dang boolits are keyholing past 25 yards on the first day at the range.
Its like watching an unpackaging video for a smartphone on youtube. Grow up already. I. DON'T. CARE. how giggly you feel opening the danged box.
Who isn't excited about the new car smell, only to find out that EVERY STEEENKING head gasket is toast at 64K?
Powerwasher is not the place to skimp.
Yes, an I told you so is appropriate. Superior knowledge base is why I come to this place.
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the NOISE our industrial unit went down , sent out for repair ( which can't be done with cheapies) and the noise from the cheap drove us crazy.
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I've been using the greenworks washers for the last 4 years. They are the best cheap units I could find but I'd still go through about 3 a year. Last week I had my last one go out on me with 3 screens full of degreaser so I finally splurged and bought a Northstar 2000 psi electric. Man what a difference. I feel like the screens are much cleaner using it and I'm getting about 5 more cleaned in an hours time. I really like this unit.
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I think that's what I wound up with, ShirtShackandMore. Game Changer for sure.
2000 PSI, 1.5 GPM? Model M1573001K (sounds low on GPM by comparison, but I think the cheapies numbers are tweaked, somehow...)
Best 700 bucks I've spent in I can't remember. I can't imagine and honest 3500PSI at 4 GPM. I'm thinking one with that much juice would have to be dialed back for my purposes. I "develop" and reclaim in the same booth, with the same wand. We are cramped for floorspace.
I'd have liked to bought the Camspray 1500, but I was "plum broke down" (Kansas farmboy terminology) and we have a Northern Tool in Wichita. I was up and running in just a few hours.
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Itsa, that's the exact one I bought. I know you better be holding on to the wand when you pull the trigger. Anything with more pressure would've been overkill for sure.
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Just ran across this thread....MAN does this EVER hit home! I have been bitching/ chewing up Karchers for a few years now...boss brought in the 1st greenworks to the place about a month ago...initial impresssion (who cares, right? LOL!) much more power...tickled! about a week ago, my reclaim guy comes out, drenched to the knee...high pressure line ruptured while laying loosely coiled under the sink...still under warranty, so now, number 2...fingers crossed....I noticed previous postings as to burning through them like I have been Karchers .Would be curious as to roughly how many screens a day it took to kill them...at least the greenworks wand is metal (Which is nice,LOL!) I personally feel that the fewer corners you cut, the more variables you eliminate..."Consistent & thorough procedures are the keys to repeatable results" I have been trying to explain this to the bosses for about a decade now, but they just keep coming back with junk pressure washers... year in, and year out...at least THEY are consistent, and thoroughly cheap! LOL!
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Itsa, that's the exact one I bought. I know you better be holding on to the wand when you pull the trigger. Anything with more pressure would've been overkill for sure.
Yes, but I replaced my angle tube (too long, skews the wand in whichever direction is opposite the bend, wears my arm out,) with a STRAIGHT 1/4" X 4" galvanized pipe nipple, and re-installed the fittings on each end. (MAJOR(!) improvement)
And I replaced the goofball, Nanny Government Mandated Safety Cord, with and ALWAYS CONNECTED TO POWER cord. GFCI technology has its place, don't get me wrong....
I cobbled together Farmboy Designed extra large plastic box, housing a battery operated remote control receiver (ON/OFF) that powers up a relay to carry the required amperage on the 110 circuit. Sounds too complicated, but long story short, I just hit the button on my Fire Marshall approved, switch and it roars to life from a dead stop. I hit it again...dead silence. Voilla! I ran my mod idea through my local Hotsy Pressure Washer distributor and got a thumbs up.
It allows for less run time, and ZERO Bypassing. The pump will last longer than the Northern Tool would expect, but starting and stopping the direct drive motor many hundred times a week, gave me pause originally. I always start and stop the motor and pump under a No Load condition. Easy to do, easy to teach. Just hit the lever on the wand, before touching the remote control. Shut down, is the opposite.
My last Home Depot Cheapo ran almost 4 years using the same concept. The "pump" portion of the unit never really got noticeably weaker over those years, but when it died, it was a sudden death with ZERO warning. It wouldn't even try to start. Could be a coincidence, but avoiding starting and stopping under a load condition seems to have made a difference.
Check back in a couple of decades ;) and see if my pressure washer "HACK" Part Deux was a good idea.
<EDIT> 4" not 8". I guess I forgot how short it really is.
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If you have true 230v power then this is the washer you want to look at.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200347872_200347872 (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200347872_200347872)
If you want the belt driven version, perfect for the reclaim area,
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200324563_200324563 (http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200324563_200324563)
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That's the one they use in rinse out sink. And yes belt driven for reclaim
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How would the Northstar ones above compare to the Camspray 1500?
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Anyone tried one of these: [url]http://www.lowes.com/pd_637718-348-020601_0__?productId=50328563[/url] ([url]http://www.lowes.com/pd_637718-348-020601_0__?productId=50328563[/url])
I can get it for $180 with a coupon. Huge GPM and ok PSI. I still use the same two $79 greenworks units I got a lowe's years ago and have had zero issues with them, but would love to take off 8" strips instead of 2-3" strips...
My first Greenworks pressure washer died yesterday after 4 long and good years. Went out and bought the one I linked above...and it blows! It is maybe half the strength of the cheapo greenworks at best with the same angled nozzle. UGH. Returning it tomorrow morning and getting another cheapo for now. Not quite ready to spend $500+
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My unit just died after 3 years. Cam Spray 1500 a solid unit?
everything is taking a dive today, all 3 embroidery machines just went down too...yikes. happy birthday to me, I get to buy new toys... :o
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Skip the camspray and go with a unit with separate pump and motor.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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Convince me to (or not to) buy a better pressure washer
(http://www.walltor.com/images/wallpaper/chick-in-car-wash-90651.jpg)
;D ;D ;D
Sorry, couldn't resist.
I've seen two schools of thought, buy cheap and take advantage of the guarantee to get replacements, or buy good ones that can be rebuilt or that will just generally last longer. Personally I go with higher end, but not rebuildable, I think higher pressure and better spray patterns will save you money over the long run. But if you are just a small shop and only do screens once in a while then a $100 cheapy may be a good start.
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oh no, I had an industrial unit. The home depot jammies are useless for us, tried that years ago. I ended up with the cam spray 1500, I'll revisit this when that ones blows up :o
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spend as much as you can afford, spend it once, and never look back.
Penny pinching on a washer makes no sense. Been there, done that.
John
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Just replaced a part on my pressure washer. It's a good industrial unit that we paid about a grand for. about 7 years old now. I can take care of most repairs myself, and is puts out a solid 2000 PSI (new gauge was just put on also) I like knowing I have the power I need.
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Can someone who has spent a bunch on a pressure washer post a video of them reclaiming with it? Bonus points if you are using a diazo emulsion and it is actually taking off 6-8" wide strips in a single pass. My greenworks does about a 2-3" strip and needs the occasional second pass depending on eom. Would love to be able to really power through it in one and much wider, but having watched a bunch of vids online of reclaim it doesnt seem like many are actually able to do that...
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We replaced our pitiful little 1000psi 1.4GPM Mi-T-M we use for developing with a Annovi Reverberi AR630 "Blue Clean" 1500psi 2.1GPM unit. Man that thing kicks.
Sometimes when we have a giant pile of screens we double-team the de-stencil duty. I never would have put myself through that torment with the last one...but it isn't even a struggle. I'm moving just as fast as the guy with the 3000psi 2.5GPM 3-phase Hydro Engineering HydroBlaster...which is an absolute monster.
However the AR630 didn't take 2 months for assembly and delivery, I got it the next day with free shipping for a little over $600. If that HydroBlaster ever dies (which I highly doubt) I'm just getting another AR630 and calling it a day.
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post a video!!!!
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Can someone who has spent a bunch on a pressure washer post a video of them reclaiming with it? Bonus points if you are using a diazo emulsion and it is actually
good chemicals and soft emusion and you should easily get that 6-8 pass. You may find getting a better trigger, wand and tip angle can help. It seems the most popular are the 15 and 25 degree quick change nozzles.. you can actually get just about any angle you want from mcmaster and then opt for the screw in vs the quick change. 20 degree will get you your 6-8 pass.
or.. you can make a double tipped head if you're crafty.. then you can make a 10-12 wide pass each time.
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I don't have the time today, I'm stuck in my office doing buyer stuff all day. I'll probably be able to do that tomorrow though. There's no de-stenciling going on at the moment since our drying room is absolutely maxed out. The presses are on huge runs right now so I told my reclaim guys to work in big batches to clear the dirty screen rack off by the end of the day.
I'd say it's more like 4-5" strips at a time with the HydroBlaster...we scrub on ER-2, so depending on how long and how hard you scrub I could probably pull off 6-8" in one pass. The AR630 works in 3" strips or so...but once you get going with the pressure washers taking the entire coat off doesn't usually take more than 20 or 30 seconds if you've scrubbed enough....not counting the pooled edges of emulsion on the side, especially on base plates.
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you can adjust your tips on the hydro and with 3k pressure.. you can use two even three tips on a wand and get really wide passes.
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you can adjust your tips on the hydro and with 3k pressure.. you can use two even three tips on a wand and get really wide passes.
Yeah, the gun this thing comes with is completely absurd...and boy does it have kick. That thing could definitely take skin off if you weren't careful...the polypropylene washout boot has plenty of scars from slow days when I tell them to clean the emulsion bits off the back with the pressure washer.
It actually has two tips. I always thought that one of them was for soap or chemical, but it sure looks like it's coming out of both at once...especially when you use the adjuster on the gun.
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Can someone who has spent a bunch on a pressure washer post a video of them reclaiming with it? Bonus points if you are using a diazo emulsion and it is actually
good chemicals and soft emusion and you should easily get that 6-8 pass. You may find getting a better trigger, wand and tip angle can help. It seems the most popular are the 15 and 25 degree quick change nozzles.. you can actually get just about any angle you want from mcmaster and then opt for the screw in vs the quick change. 20 degree will get you your 6-8 pass.
or.. you can make a double tipped head if you're crafty.. then you can make a 10-12 wide pass each time.
On the greenworks I "upgraded" the end and have tested a bunch of angles, and no matter what it is not going to strip wider than 3" at a time in a single pass. It just doesnt output enough pressure or volume. Even in Kitson's reclaim vids they are doing little tiny strips and I know he has a nicer pressure washer. I have seen a video of people doing 6-8" wide from a foot or two back with no issues, but can't find it at the moment and I have no clue on their setup. Would love to be able to do that, but I can't see the value in spending 5x-10x as much to get the same reclaim speed (2-3" passes) that I currently have with my $100 unit...
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As Judge Judy puts it- the cheap comes out expensive.
As many times as I have heard the wimpy unit is replaced over and over and over.
The time spent going to get another along with downtime, ugg. Our Northstar ($700) is well over
12 years old humming along. Find the funds, save for the funds, or spend time waddling back to the store.
Swaths of intense spray 4-5" are standard and enough for the largest of shops going gangbusters.
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My experience is probably not the norm, but I have had 3 total pressure washers in about 6 years, all $100 greenworks, and 2 are still humming along fine.
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I've also found the cheaper units to be WAY over rated. Either they are not putting out what they say they are or the nicer ones are putting out more than they say.
You clean faster with more pressure and water. So it's also a time saver in that end.
For a hobbyist, the cheapies are fine, when you're paying a person to reclaim, it doesn't make sense.
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I was banned from Home Depot and Lowes. Not even kidding. Cheaping it out didn't work for long at all. usually three days, max. Return it? Yeah, after the 10th one they start to get salty.
These are industrial purposes, you need industrial units.