TSB
screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Rockers on August 28, 2015, 07:56:07 PM
-
Just looked through their TDS and it says "for use with plastisol and waterbased inks". A bit further down then they write "Suitable for use with water based inks when hardened with Murakami MS or A&B Hardeners."
????????
So without hardeners it`s useless for waterbased runs of any size? Or can we still use it for waterbased printing incl discharge even if we don`t use any hardener, just not for big runs? This is really confusing, a TDS should answer all your questions not raise new ones.
-
Sp1400 works great for waterbase runs without hardener.
My only complaint is that it's hard to reclaim.
-
I have never use hardener with it. Best emulsion we have ever used, hands down!
-
Only emulsion I use. Holds up amazingly well for discharge runs without hardening or post exposure. Great resolution too. Not sticky. Not brittle. Cheap.
Also reclaims without any issues with supra in the dip tank...at least for me.
-
Sp1400 works great for waterbase runs without hardener.
My only complaint is that it's hard to reclaim.
I begin to wonder if this might be due to the fact that the screens might be underexposed. Had a very similar situation with CCI WR-14 which we probably not exposed long enough on our LED unit, reclaiming was a bitch. Just looked up the old post and you suggested the same, expose screens longer. Did that not fix your problem with the SP-1400?
-
Nope. Even properly exposed or over exposed it's still tougher to reclaim than Saati PHU which also holds up to water base and discharge really well.
-
Jason, when you say hard to reclaim do you mean it just needs to sit in a dip tank longer out it physically seems to adhere and in turn remove from the mesh?
While I agree it needs a bit more time in the tank(maybe 10-15 vs. 5), we have never had a real problem blasting it off the mesh.
-
it takes more work to blast it off the mesh... after you use a PP emulsion and it melts off with a quick pass of the pressure washer you get spoiled.
The other thing I don't like about diazo emulsions is how heat-sensitive they are... if you accidentally let your screen room get too warm (over 90 degrees), or let them sit in the drying cabinet too long, you'll dark harden them and they become hard to rinse out.
Other than those issues tho, it definitely makes quite a bullet proof screen out of the gate with no post-exposure or other tricks needed. (As long as it's not a super dry winter -- then you need to swap over to their Winter blend, which has issues once it gets humid in the spring)
-
we haven't tried this one yet but since you guys are using LED units, try the HXT and add half a bottle of diazo...excellent detail and durability, reclaim like a PP, our longest exposure is 30 seconds on the starlight. we did some testing with the stouffer strip and were getting a hard 7 on 25 seconds on a 230, 2/1....
-
SP-1400 is one of our best emulsions for just about any textile printing. Jason I am curious what are you using to wash out inks from the screen? Any screen openers or hot solvents? Typically I see it reclaiming easily and melting right off. If you underexpose and use screen openers a lot for ink changes, or acetone, MEK, and even parts washer chems you can can lock in SBQ emulsions only see this, but it is possible the cleaners are causing your lock in on a diazo, which is rare. LED exposure has some issues in that you can completely cure the print side while the inside may have slight underexposure. With diazo this sensitivity may be lost once developed, but try post exposing with squeegee side toward the sun since some sensitivity may remain. Also avoid overcoating. SP-1400 has a high viscosity. 1:1 dull and 1:2 sharp is about all you will need. Overcoating could also result in loss of resolution and may cause underexposure on the squeegee side. My tests on an LED starlight were impressive. 19 seconds on a 200Y or 110W. Very strong exposure. If any other manufacturers want to send us a loaner I would love to calibrate all my emulsions on your units with proper coat, eom, and times by mesh.
TDS sheet format does need some revision Rockers, We are in the process of updating them for our new website.
Also we have changed our diazo packaging. We are sending diazo out in aluminum pouches which preserves the diazo better than the old bottles. You can add water to the bag and fold over twice to mix, or add diazo to a wide mouth container and add water and mix.
SP-1400 can be used without hardeners for short runs, or MS hardener for longer auto runs. MS hardener allows SP-1400 to remain reclaimable with a slightly higher concentrated reclaim solution. My test shows it comes off easily. If you see it difficult to reclaim try switching your screen cleaning chemistry to Murakami SC501, 505, 507 that are compatible clean up chemistries.
Al
-
Its worth noting:
If you bulb is older, it may be a little weak in some of the necessary light spectrums. Hence making it more difficult to reclaim.
This happened with us here. We changed our bulb and it reclaimed much more readily.
Not nearly as well as the PHU we have been using. But I no longer had complaints about reclaim.
-
Kiwo MultiTex is a great option! its a one part system that works on Plastisol, Water-Based and UV inks.
:)
-
multi tex is SUPER sticky and sticks bad to the pusher frame, for those using the I image.
-
Have any of you tried the Kiwo Discharge? I'm using it with no complaints but I can't verify whether or not it's good for long runs of discharge. I'd love it if someone could chime in on the discharge durability part of it.
It's a one part, has great definition and has a 1 year pot life.
-
SP-1400 is one of our best emulsions for just about any textile printing. Jason I am curious what are you using to wash out inks from the screen? Any screen openers or hot solvents? Typically I see it reclaiming easily and melting right off. If you underexpose and use screen openers a lot for ink changes, or acetone, MEK, and even parts washer chems you can can lock in SBQ emulsions only see this, but it is possible the cleaners are causing your lock in on a diazo, which is rare. LED exposure has some issues in that you can completely cure the print side while the inside may have slight underexposure. With diazo this sensitivity may be lost once developed, but try post exposing with squeegee side toward the sun since some sensitivity may remain. Also avoid overcoating. SP-1400 has a high viscosity. 1:1 dull and 1:2 sharp is about all you will need. Overcoating could also result in loss of resolution and may cause underexposure on the squeegee side. My tests on an LED starlight were impressive. 19 seconds on a 200Y or 110W. Very strong exposure. If any other manufacturers want to send us a loaner I would love to calibrate all my emulsions on your units with proper coat, eom, and times by mesh.
TDS sheet format does need some revision Rockers, We are in the process of updating them for our new website.
Also we have changed our diazo packaging. We are sending diazo out in aluminum pouches which preserves the diazo better than the old bottles. You can add water to the bag and fold over twice to mix, or add diazo to a wide mouth container and add water and mix.
SP-1400 can be used without hardeners for short runs, or MS hardener for longer auto runs. MS hardener allows SP-1400 to remain reclaimable with a slightly higher concentrated reclaim solution. My test shows it comes off easily. If you see it difficult to reclaim try switching your screen cleaning chemistry to Murakami SC501, 505, 507 that are compatible clean up chemistries.
Al
Alan, I remember you once recommended I should use Advance 20, now unfortunately that is the product name for the Chinese market. Any idea what it`s called in the US or even here in Japan?
-
Have any of you tried the Kiwo Discharge? I'm using it with no complaints but I can't verify whether or not it's good for long runs of discharge. I'd love it if someone could chime in on the discharge durability part of it.
It's a one part, has great definition and has a 1 year pot life.
are you adding the diazo? it was my go to emulsion for years, but without the diazo, forget it for discharge! and its SUPER expensive.
-
Have any of you tried the Kiwo Discharge? I'm using it with no complaints but I can't verify whether or not it's good for long runs of discharge. I'd love it if someone could chime in on the discharge durability part of it.
It's a one part, has great definition and has a 1 year pot life.
are you adding the diazo? it was my go to emulsion for years, but without the diazo, forget it for discharge! and its SUPER expensive.
agreed... don't try it even with diazo for HSA... we got through 2 --- yes TWO -- shirts before the screen broke down... and it was a solid 9 on the stouffer strip.
-
Sounds like I may have to swap. It's a shame because the I image printed so well on it.
-
Rockers I will check and PM you with the name of the emulsion in Japan. SP_1400 is pretty hard to beat in terms of price/production value. HVP or HV with diazo is still a great long run alternative with faster exposing speeds.
Al
-
I found HV/HVP too sticky and it seemed to have issues for me when it came to getting low and high percentage dots to stay on the emulsion during washout. I only did minimal testing with Diazo though...
SP1400 really is awesome compared to the dozen or so other emulsions I've tried here and there.
-
For anyone who is having issues holding dots on HVP try coating less. A 1:1 dull or better a 1:2 sharp will yield a better stencil thickness for details. 1:1 sharp can also be used on high mesh counts is also about all you need for halftone reproduction. The key to HVP is coat slowly and use a firm pressure. I see so many screen rooms where coating is done way too fast. The goal is to imagine it going through the mesh openings and not skipping over the mesh. Causes irregular EOM across the face of the screen as well as whipping bubbles into the emulsion that create pinholes. .5 seconds by hand cannot compare to an auto coater that can take 5-6 seconds or more to complete a pass. That pressure and slow speed pushes the emulsion back and forth to bind better with the mesh and gives more consistent EOM.
SP-1400 does have better resolution than HVP, but only by 1-2 percentage points.
Al
-
Interesting. I coated with both pretty much the same. 1:1 about 8-10 seconds per side with a slight angle on the screen itself. 1:2 only for 280 mesh. My issue wasn't so much the emulsion actually resolving the dots (as in they were visible when looking at the wetted emulsion post dunk dank), but anything under 15-20% would wash right off or come off within a few strokes on press. SP1400 on the otherhand is pretty much bullet proof, and if the dot is there it is staying there.
-
if you see dots below 20% we are speaking of 80-95% tonal values with the neg dot not holding. Check degreasing chem, add some more exposure time, use a finer mesh may help. But if SP-1400 works, no need to fix.
-
I use this emulsion for all of my plastisol printing (cant beat the price). And I was told it would hold for waterbased / discharge printing as well. Sweet! But as soon as I put my screen on press for my discharge print I was running, I got 8 shirts printed before it broke down. In a scramble I went to a local retailer and bought CCI WR-14 and it has held for 1,000 shirts almost each day I have printed. Cant say that with my experience I would use this again for discharge prints. Or maybe I did something wrong. There is always that option too right??
-
I use this emulsion for all of my plastisol printing (cant beat the price). And I was told it would hold for waterbased / discharge printing as well. Sweet! But as soon as I put my screen on press for my discharge print I was running, I got 8 shirts printed before it broke down. In a scramble I went to a local retailer and bought CCI WR-14 and it has held for 1,000 shirts almost each day I have printed. Cant say that with my experience I would use this again for discharge prints. Or maybe I did something wrong. There is always that option too right??
Are you referring to SP-1400? Did you use any hardeners? What was your exposure time on what type of unit? I read these posts with a lot of question marks popping up. How is it some printers love it while others are having issues? You can always PM me with your issues on any Murakami product, if it works for one really well, it can work for all really well, just need to dial in your particular system. This thread started off on SP-1400, if it ain't working for you we need to talk and help you discover the difference. I have print houses in the 100k range with no breakdown, easy to do, just let me know what's happening and we'll help fix it for you.
Alan
323.697.4334