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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: DannyGruninger on October 28, 2015, 01:12:46 PM

Title: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on October 28, 2015, 01:12:46 PM
Did a search and didn't find too much...... Have a client we need to print a couple hundred big yoga mats for and want to get some ink ordered today.


Any suggestions, mr coleman? anyone else?

thanks

Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 28, 2015, 01:19:57 PM
Here's what he said i another thread some time back

BTW - yoga mats are plastisol.  Yup just a foam plastisol that is metered onto a belt.  I used to sell industrial plastisols into this market before it all went off shore to China.  You can print standard plastisols on them with pretty good results as long as the temp stays below 330 or so.
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Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on October 28, 2015, 01:37:50 PM
Thanks Andy, looks like I will try some super stretch plastisol white.... In the past I have had problems with the ink cracking/coming off the yoga mat material with standard plastisols


Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Croft on October 28, 2015, 01:40:22 PM
how about silicone?
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Rob Coleman on October 28, 2015, 02:09:02 PM
Danny - you can always add a little nylobond for adhesion promoter.  Or potentially use an air dry solvent ink. 

Croft:  I would not go with silicone -- pvc gassing under heat can poison the Si bond -- basically meaning the catalyst may not kick off and cross link.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 28, 2015, 02:18:50 PM
Danny - you can always add a little nylobond for adhesion promoter.  Or potentially use an air dry solvent ink. 

Croft:  I would not go with silicone -- pvc gassing under heat can poison the Si bond -- basically meaning the catalyst may not kick off and cross link.

Rob, I always felt that Nylobond type stuff reduces stretch. Is that not the case?
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Rob Coleman on October 28, 2015, 02:34:03 PM
Frog- you are correct.  It improves tensile strength (adhesion) but decreases elongation.  Maybe I read wrong, but I thought Danny said he had adhesion issues with standard plastisols.  Rereading - yes if it cracked due to  not enough elasticity and then loss of adhesion - nylon additive would not be advised.

Most yoga mats are not terribly stretchy though -- just foamy! 

The thing is with plastisol ink - when printing on a cured plastisol (yoga mat in this case), you are literally printing on a sheet of vinyl and adhesion is difficult.  This is the same phenomena on inter-coat adhesion issues (delaminating) when printed a color on an OVER flashed white ink.  However in this case, the blown foam of the mat gives a bit of a rougher surface to adhere to.  An air dry vinyl ink would probably be the best solution overall.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 28, 2015, 02:44:53 PM
Frog- you are correct.  It improves tensile strength (adhesion) but decreases elongation.  Maybe I read wrong, but I thought Danny said he had adhesion issues with standard plastisols.  Rereading - yes if it cracked due to  not enough elasticity and then loss of adhesion - nylon additive would not be advised.

Most yoga mats are not terribly stretchy though -- just foamy! 

The thing is with plastisol ink - when printing on a cured plastisol (yoga mat in this case), you are literally printing on a sheet of vinyl and adhesion is difficult.  This is the same phenomena on inter-coat adhesion issues (delaminating) when printed a color on an OVER flashed white ink.  However in this case, the blown foam of the mat gives a bit of a rougher surface to adhere to.  An air dry vinyl ink would probably be the best solution overall.

Danny brought up a stretchy ink, but does not really say if stretch or lack thereof was an issue.
I like the idea of an air dry that etches its way into the substrate a bit if that is available, but without help stacking, even with a reduced dry time with the addition of heat, stacking or racking this stuff to dry is what years ago, got me out of flat stock in my limited space.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: ericheartsu on October 28, 2015, 03:48:27 PM
man perfect timing. I'm so stoked this thread just came up. in need of the same thing!
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on October 28, 2015, 04:06:04 PM
The big issue I have had is when the clients go to roll their mat up into a roll that is what stresses the ink/makes it crack...... Which is why I'm thinking I need something that can really stretch well due to the clients always wanting to roll these up tightly.


Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: T Shirt Farmer on October 28, 2015, 05:42:26 PM
my yoga matt appears to be screened looking under a loop, semi pliable ink, feels and looks like it will stick forever... although a very small imprint
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: 3Deep on October 28, 2015, 05:49:23 PM
This might be a stupid idea, but what about using some type of vinyl house paint in a 230 or higher screen
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 28, 2015, 06:10:48 PM
my yoga matt appears to be screened looking under a loop, semi pliable ink, feels and looks like it will stick forever... although a very small imprint

When it's small like that, how about pad printing?
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: royster13 on October 28, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Phone Nazdar......They know it all......
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on October 28, 2015, 06:48:02 PM
For us pad print not an option as we are having to print full size on the mats - around 24" wide by 65" long...... Tons of ink covering the entire yogo mat hence the reason we need something that will stick, stretch and last a long time...... I might try to test some hsa w/ catalyst on them and see how that does


Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Inkworks on October 28, 2015, 09:41:54 PM
The first ink I'd reach for to test would be a good old gloss vinyl ink.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: GaryG on October 28, 2015, 10:47:38 PM
That's a massive print. I would think testing would be an essential priority
with a couple of ink systems to make sure final product is optimal.

Sounds like it may not have to stretch, just the opposite, not be --brittle to crack being compressed-- upon rolling.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: pwalsh on October 28, 2015, 11:37:47 PM
Did a search and didn't find too much...... Have a client we need to print a couple hundred big yoga mats for and want to get some ink ordered today.

Any suggestions, mr coleman? anyone else?

thanks

Danny; If you are looking to print an ink other than a plastisol i'd recommend that you call Nazdar Tech Service at 1-866-340-3579, or email InkAnswers@Nazdar.com.  Your one email goes to more than 20 experts where one will respond quickly with a written answer you can review at your convenience.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: mooseman on October 29, 2015, 06:55:19 AM
Stressing out over Yoga, is there something fundamentally wrong here :o
mooseman
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on October 29, 2015, 10:06:50 AM
Did a search and didn't find too much...... Have a client we need to print a couple hundred big yoga mats for and want to get some ink ordered today.

Any suggestions, mr coleman? anyone else?

thanks

Danny; If you are looking to print an ink other than a plastisol i'd recommend that you call Nazdar Tech Service at 1-866-340-3579, or email InkAnswers@Nazdar.com.  Your one email goes to more than 20 experts where one will respond quickly with a written answer you can review at your convenience.


I emailed your ink answers team last night and they responded this morning. Thanks for the suggestion, their suggestion was to look at the nazdar "DA" series so I'll look into checking that out




Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 29, 2015, 10:39:03 AM
This reminds me why, about fifteen years ago, I decided to quit flatstock and unusual substrates and narrow my operation to conventional textile apparel.
Drying some of these projects can take up some major real estate!

http://www.gogsg.com/UserFiles/Files/Nazdar_DA_Nylon_Ink_DATA.pdf (http://www.gogsg.com/UserFiles/Files/Nazdar_DA_Nylon_Ink_DATA.pdf)
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Inkworks on October 29, 2015, 12:28:47 PM
Try printing 250 golf umbrellas in a 1000sq/ft shop. At least yoga mats will probably fit on a drying rack, and you could probably flash-off the ink through the dryer at 150F or so.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: Frog on October 29, 2015, 01:07:50 PM
Try printing 250 golf umbrellas in a 1000sq/ft shop. At least yoga mats will probably fit on a drying rack, and you could probably flash-off the ink through the dryer at 150F or so.

I still attribute my bad luck to the umbrellas I have done, and of course, opened, and then left open indoors to dry/cure.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: mimosatexas on February 11, 2016, 11:50:19 AM
bumping!  Have a guy that wants to do yoga mats seen here: http://www.prana.com/nomad-travel-mat.html?color=black (http://www.prana.com/nomad-travel-mat.html?color=black)

Assuming the texture doesnt make it a lost cause, what has worked for others?  These are described as TPE, but that seems to be a sort of generic term for the material.

Danny, what did you end up using on yours and how did it turn out?  Eric, same question.  Any production tips?
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: tonypep on February 11, 2016, 12:01:52 PM
How about 1,000 soccer balls that were printed in China without the registered trademark............that was the now long defunct Soccer Ball Division. Thankful for "lasers" then!
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: ericheartsu on February 11, 2016, 01:24:42 PM
our project got scrapped, so i can't really chime in.

we did get a new permaset ink that was built for nylon....so that might be an option for the next run!
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: zanegun08 on February 11, 2016, 01:49:46 PM
bumping!  Have a guy that wants to do yoga mats seen here: [url]http://www.prana.com/nomad-travel-mat.html?color=black[/url] ([url]http://www.prana.com/nomad-travel-mat.html?color=black[/url])

Assuming the texture doesnt make it a lost cause, what has worked for others?  These are described as TPE, but that seems to be a sort of generic term for the material.

Danny, what did you end up using on yours and how did it turn out?  Eric, same question.  Any production tips?


I would try a cad cut transfer as ink is just going to go into the pores of the material.

That is however if pressure doesn't leave a permanent indentation, and you can get the transfer to stick, without melting the material.

Otherwise something like Nazdar 9700 would most likely work on something like this.
Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: DannyGruninger on February 11, 2016, 03:13:17 PM
We ended up testing two products from nazdar that both failed for us...... What ended up working amazing was ICC mixing white straight out of the bucket with 2% nylobond added...... We talk to the client weekly and they say the print on the mats is still perfect..... here was a pic of one


Title: Re: Ink for Yoga Mat
Post by: mimosatexas on February 11, 2016, 04:00:19 PM
which two from nazdar failed?