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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Shanarchy on November 24, 2015, 07:58:09 PM
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What are the thoughts on the PRU registration system?
http://www.screenprinting.com/sroque-pru-positive-press-registration-unit?quantity=1#.VlI4w-JWXVJ (http://www.screenprinting.com/sroque-pru-positive-press-registration-unit?quantity=1#.VlI4w-JWXVJ)
I have standard U clamps, not the pin heads.
I have a tri-loc system now, and have ordered a S Roque registration pallet.
Opinions on using tri-loc vs their pru system?
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As long as the reg pallet hits in the exact same places that the tri-loc jig does you're good.
Me I'd sell the tri-loc and order the pru.
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I should know this after reading so much lit on these presses last year but would the PRU work with regular ol' M3 frames without any tabs, pins, etc?
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We just got a reg pallet, our YOU had U clamps and our ECO had pin system, so one had to change. Long story short, with the reg pallet we are switching the ECO over to a U clamp as well.
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Zoo,
The registration pallet would be similar to the Tri-loc pallet. 3 bump stops and can be used with any type of screen, for presses without pin style heads. (Keep in mind I don't have this in my hands yet. I'm going off what I understand it to be).
TCT,
Are you using the S Roque PRU system? If so how do you like it? Have you ever used tri-loc before?
EB,
What are you using for pre-reg?
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Thanks, I might look at one. We're using the Newman system and frankly, it's been more of a pre-position than a pre-reg outfit. We use a tri loc on the presses. I wanted to tighten up the film to screen part and was going to build but would just buy on of these instead if it checks out.
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Never used the Tri-loc, so I can't compare. We are kind of using the PRU, our PRU is set up for the pin system. It seems to work just fine with the U clamp though since everything is registered exactly the same. We are just waiting to get our CTS set up and then the PRU will just be for oversized screens.
The knock on the S.Roque reg pallet I have is that a "XL" reg pallet won't fit on a "M" machine out of the box.... A drill, 4 rivets and careful measuring takes care of that though!
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Thanks, I might look at one. We're using the Newman system and frankly, it's been more of a pre-position than a pre-reg outfit. We use a tri loc on the presses. I wanted to tighten up the film to screen part and was going to build but would just buy on of these instead if it checks out.
Are you looking at getting the pallet? Or the actual PRU? What kind of press are you using it on?
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We use the MHM fpu for our two s types. Basically the
exact same as Roq's pin system. Was planning on having our Roq
made with MHM compatible holders, and continue to use the MHM system
for all machines, but then found that the MHM pinned frames will work in
the Roq PRU, reg pallet and u-clamps. So that's what we'll be using in a few months.
Best of the mhm and mnr styles, like screen printers have been discusing and cobbling
together for the past few years.
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We use the pin system with the PRU. Looking forward to hear other experiences with the reg pallet vs pin system.
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I haven't personally seen the pin system in action but I know regi systems fairly well since I've been trying to perfect our systems for years, and I feel like the pin system of Sroque's is inferior to the U clamping system despite having to put a regi pallet jig on for each setup. If done correctly (human factors) the U clamp should be more consistent and also accurate due to the difficulty of some machines having problems reaching a true micro zero. With the micro systems on the Sroque and MHM finding zero is MUCH easier versus other machines but it still has room for error that you really don't have by butting a screen up to stop blocks.
If I were buying an Sroque I'd be opting for the U clamp system without a question. Plus you don't have to put the pins on all your screens which should count for a lot in larger shops with hundreds of screens.
Just my humble opinion and I'll remind everyone again that I don't run an Sroque or MHM, just a modified triloc on an RPM that is unbelievably accurate. I've got numerous test prints in my desk of 6-8 color jobs that were dead on with one test print and our average color count is 3 colors right now so our setups are routinely under 5 minutes with most of that time putting squeegees, floodbars and ink in the screens.
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Shanarchy, I would use it like Alan does, fpu for film alignment, tri loc on press. I think any accurate three point jig is fine for reg on the machine so long as the films are aligned.
Agree that true zero is the problem with pin systems. Some micro styles cannot zero well. But on the machines with accurate micros I don't see why a haptic or visual indicator couldn't be used to ensure heads are at true zero after each job. I find loading a reg platen annoying.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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I have the U clamps.
My options are:
Using tri-loc (which I have), swapping out the pallet with the S Roque registration pallet which I've already ordered. (I'm assuming it will work the same).
Or:
Order the PRU positive registration unit. Which would be also be made for a U clamp press. And would utilize their registration pallet. This does not use carrier sheets. And I wouldn't be using any part of tri-loc.
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I have the U clamps.
My options are:
Using tri-loc (which I have), swapping out the pallet with the S Roque registration pallet which I've already ordered. (I'm assuming it will work the same).
Or:
Order the PRU positive registration unit. Which would be also be made for a U clamp press. And would utilize their registration pallet. This does not use carrier sheets. And I wouldn't be using any part of tri-loc.
Find a used MHM unit on the market. Hell, I had 2 of them at one time! You should be able to find them pop up with people going CTS. SPSI has 2 they've been sitting on for 2 years.... Probably be a cheaper option if you are looking for that.
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Alex,
Woukd that work with a c clamp press? I'm imaging I should be using ones with bump stops to match my pallet as opposed to pins, no?
What should I expect to pay for one of those bad boys on the used market?
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I am not sold on using pins yet so for me there's two systems for the roq to look at.
1. For guys using film here's what I would do
Have a PRU film positioning unit built by roq to match their special reg pallet (tri lock pallet will not work for multiple reasons). Combine the roq special reg pallet with the PRU unit - the pru unit must be built to have the same 3 point registration as the pallet has
2. For guys using dts all you need is the special reg pallet and make certain the 3 points on dts are EXACTLY the same as the 3 points on the special reg pallet
The key to roq system for me has been how solid the special reg pallet locks into the pallet arm. Theres absolutely no movement, deflection, or possibility that the pallet isn't locked in straight. We have nearly perfect results on all jobs every day, usually the only time we have to micro is when my guys are just in a hurry not checking their steps but I will say I dont remember the last job I personally setup that I had to micro. I'm hoping to get my hands on a pru so I can start doing some testing with film to confirm my thoughts but if you pair the pru with the special reg pallet you should be getting results fairly close to dts and special reg pallet. Again, I'm not sold on pins due to the fact that you must re zero print heads before you lock anything into the press which to me takes longer then putting the pallet on and off.
Hope this helps you guys
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If done correctly (human factors) the U clamp should be more consistent and also accurate due to the difficulty of some machines having problems reaching a true micro zero. With the micro systems on the Sroque and MHM finding zero is MUCH easier versus other machines but it still has room for error that you really don't have by butting a screen up to stop blocks.
Find zero or load and spin a reg pallet.
The MHM 4000's have the option of electronic reg with a zero setting. The Roq Eco's coming from the factory will now have electronic
reg as well. That said I like the pallet option. (probably because I haven't used it yet)
The clear winner in film placement is the FPU/PRU style. Carrier sheets are just another place to introduce error as far
as I can tell. And a consumable cost that really isn't necessary.
Danny beat me to it, but Shanarchy, get the PRU.
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Well if you can just hit a button and electronically zero out all the micros, I'd say that makes pin reg much more viable and maybe superior. I also like the way pins hold a frame v. clamping.
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This**** The Roq Eco's coming from the factory will now have electronic
reg as well.
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Holy crap, so they're basically like auto reg MHM 4000s now?
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I've only seen pictures but from what I can tell, yes. Know for sure late February.
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I can't speak up yet but I will say there's a whole slew of new really amazing "digital/control panel/micro reg" type things that we've been working on that will be available here soon. Some very very exciting things that Roq will be offering here once it's all fully tested
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Yes they are going all digital on the ECO and ovals, digital readout for reg and squeegee/flood. So you manually have to micro it, but it will have readout like X - 0.01 Y-0.04 so micro them till they hit 0.00. Keeps the price down without motors then. There has been a modified ECO up in Canada that is basically a 4000AC for a few years from my understanding. I have not actually seen it though.
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Just threw on the reg-pallet on the order for our You XL coming in, so i'll be testing this out as well!
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Yes they are going all digital on the ECO and ovals, digital readout for reg and squeegee/flood. So you manually have to micro it, but it will have readout like X - 0.01 Y-0.04 so micro them till they hit 0.00. Keeps the price down without motors then. There has been a modified ECO up in Canada that is basically a 4000AC for a few years from my understanding. I have not actually seen it though.
Well I have seen them leaving the factory :) . The system is available for ROQprint ECO and ROQprint Oval Evolution.
This system is an optional.
Hope it helps :)
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I'll have to start saving my pennies now to upgrade to one of those ECO's one day!
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I'll have to start saving my pennies now to upgrade to one of those ECO's one day!
:)
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We use the MHM fpu for our two s types. Basically the
exact same as Roq's pin system. Was planning on having our Roq
made with MHM compatible holders, and continue to use the MHM system
for all machines, but then found that the MHM pinned frames will work in
the Roq PRU, reg pallet and u-clamps. So that's what we'll be using in a few months.
Best of the mhm and mnr styles, like screen printers have been discusing and cobbling
together for the past few years.
Got my first auto 18months ago, mhm x type plus with PRU, I very rarely have to micro it works so well. Thinking about adding a second auto I always liked the sroque but on the little experience I had the Mhm just seemed to have the better PRU and pin system. i was curious as to why you went sroque if you already had MHM's.