TSB
screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: BorisB on December 19, 2015, 05:08:34 AM
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https://www.facebook.com/exiletech/videos/1208046399209429/ (https://www.facebook.com/exiletech/videos/1208046399209429/)
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Interesting for sure. What brand print head does it use? Looks very basic but may be all most of us would ever need.
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Looks great, that's what a CTS should cost.
I don't know why the machines on the market are so expensive.
I see that Spider have been around a while, does anyone have details on where they are made etc?
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Looks great, that's what a CTS should cost.
I don't know why the machines on the market are so expensive.
I see that Spider have been around a while, does anyone have details on where they are made etc?
There is also a new one made by lawson that is 15 grand but the only thing that concerns me is when reading about it, it says up to 55lpi. That is about the max I normally use anyway but there are a few times that I have needed 65 lpi for smaller images to get the detail.
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The Lawson website mentions 86 lpi.
Is anyone using the Lawson or the Spider?
I'd like to hear how they work.
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This is the Lawson they are referring to I believe :
http://www.lawsonsp.com/screen-printing-equipment/digital-equipment/express-jet-printers/focus-cts (http://www.lawsonsp.com/screen-printing-equipment/digital-equipment/express-jet-printers/focus-cts)
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Side question: Why does Lawson always seem to have people from the 70s and 80s "modeling" with their equipment?
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This is the Lawson they are referring to I believe :
[url]http://www.lawsonsp.com/screen-printing-equipment/digital-equipment/express-jet-printers/focus-cts[/url] ([url]http://www.lawsonsp.com/screen-printing-equipment/digital-equipment/express-jet-printers/focus-cts[/url])
Those hp print head/cartridges are about 20yo technology. They print great, but slow and low capacity if no external reservoir.
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Side question: Why does Lawson always seem to have people from the 70s and 80s "modeling" with their equipment?
I think lawson is still stuck in that era as a whole haha.
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I've spoken to the Exile guys (USA, that video seems to be geared for the UK?) a few times over the last year, they've stopped by the shop a few times since they are relatively close by outside of Houston. I've also been interested in seeing how the new Lawson works. I've been in the camp of wondering why there isn't cheaper options out there but I'm not so much against the $50-80K versions out there and my lack of knowledge of what actually goes into one plays a role. With my limited knowledge it would seem that one could build one for well under $20K but I'm only looking at it from seeing how some fairly complicated, wide format and high-end printers can go for $10K and less and think that somehow that could translate into a CTS machine. Again, it's part ignorance on my part along with a few discussions with guys who know more than me generally but don't work in the CTS field that have hinted that the prices will soon enough be MUCH lower than what we're seeing now. It sure doesn't seem like a complicated machine once you get past the RIP and I would think that those who deal with RIPs pretty much have them dialed in by now. You see printers from Epson and Roland printing super high detailed, full color images with great precision and somewhat affordable and an outsider sees that and automatically assumes that printing black, UV resistant ink/wax wouldn't be that much different. BUT we all know what happens when people ASSUME!
If there is ever a CTS that is under $20K and will handle 50 screens per day and doesn't spend much time being worked on I know I'd be all over it. Our ROI isn't going to be close to what some shops have seen so regardless of how great a $70K CTS machine is and how awesome they would make all of our lives it simply doesn't make financial sense when the ROI is 3-4 years. If a CTS would double our setup efficiency and double our screen throughput pre-press then $50-70K isn't hard to swallow.
Maybe Exile will want to beta test that $15K unit here :) and I can give everyone a real-time working review of it.
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It's nice to know that the prices of these units have and will continue to drop. I know that I will never go back to film so it's great to know that I won't have to break the bank to keep this shop using a CTS.
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I'm still waiting for the scanning laser ones to come down in price.. those things are awesome...
and the fact that you get a fully exposed screen out of the 'back end' of it with no consumables is pretty awesome as well.
this is a quite interesting device for a smaller shop that's ready to get away from film.
at 15k, and a 5 year depreciation cycle, you're looking at 3k a year or $250/month.... definitely seems to fit in well with a 50 screen/week type shop (depending on what the ink costs are of course).
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50 screens a day? Are you buying for your output now or the future Alan? 50 screens a day isn't much more than your making per day now right?
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I'm still waiting for the scanning laser ones to come down in price.. those things are awesome...
and the fact that you get a fully exposed screen out of the 'back end' of it with no consumables is pretty awesome as well.
this is a quite interesting device for a smaller shop that's ready to get away from film.
at 15k, and a 5 year depreciation cycle, you're looking at 3k a year or $250/month.... definitely seems to fit in well with a 50 screen/week type shop (depending on what the ink costs are of course).
There is actually quite a bit of maintenance cost on these units. But true no consumable but power.
I doubt the cost will drop drastically on the "great" version of these units. Between the LED mirror and lens the cost can get fairly high quickly for quality product. And as you pointed out there is little/no consumable business so they need the cash flow from equipment purchase.
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I've spoken to the Exile guys (USA, that video seems to be geared for the UK?) a few times over the last year, they've stopped by the shop a few times since they are relatively close by outside of Houston. I've also been interested in seeing how the new Lawson works. I've been in the camp of wondering why there isn't cheaper options out there but I'm not so much against the $50-80K versions out there and my lack of knowledge of what actually goes into one plays a role. With my limited knowledge it would seem that one could build one for well under $20K but I'm only looking at it from seeing how some fairly complicated, wide format and high-end printers can go for $10K and less and think that somehow that could translate into a CTS machine. Again, it's part ignorance on my part along with a few discussions with guys who know more than me generally but don't work in the CTS field that have hinted that the prices will soon enough be MUCH lower than what we're seeing now. It sure doesn't seem like a complicated machine once you get past the RIP and I would think that those who deal with RIPs pretty much have them dialed in by now. You see printers from Epson and Roland printing super high detailed, full color images with great precision and somewhat affordable and an outsider sees that and automatically assumes that printing black, UV resistant ink/wax wouldn't be that much different. BUT we all know what happens when people ASSUME!
If there is ever a CTS that is under $20K and will handle 50 screens per day and doesn't spend much time being worked on I know I'd be all over it. Our ROI isn't going to be close to what some shops have seen so regardless of how great a $70K CTS machine is and how awesome they would make all of our lives it simply doesn't make financial sense when the ROI is 3-4 years. If a CTS would double our setup efficiency and double our screen throughput pre-press then $50-70K isn't hard to swallow.
Maybe Exile will want to beta test that $15K unit here :) and I can give everyone a real-time working review of it.
The reason large format guys can sell below cost of the machine is ink!!! They love ink sales!!!
CTS machines of any sort regardless of make or consumable type (wax/ink) use very little consumables compared to a wide format graphics.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I've spoken to the Exile guys (USA, that video seems to be geared for the UK?) a few times over the last year, they've stopped by the shop a few times since they are relatively close by outside of Houston. I've also been interested in seeing how the new Lawson works. I've been in the camp of wondering why there isn't cheaper options out there but I'm not so much against the $50-80K versions out there and my lack of knowledge of what actually goes into one plays a role. With my limited knowledge it would seem that one could build one for well under $20K but I'm only looking at it from seeing how some fairly complicated, wide format and high-end printers can go for $10K and less and think that somehow that could translate into a CTS machine. Again, it's part ignorance on my part along with a few discussions with guys who know more than me generally but don't work in the CTS field that have hinted that the prices will soon enough be MUCH lower than what we're seeing now. It sure doesn't seem like a complicated machine once you get past the RIP and I would think that those who deal with RIPs pretty much have them dialed in by now. You see printers from Epson and Roland printing super high detailed, full color images with great precision and somewhat affordable and an outsider sees that and automatically assumes that printing black, UV resistant ink/wax wouldn't be that much different. BUT we all know what happens when people ASSUME!
If there is ever a CTS that is under $20K and will handle 50 screens per day and doesn't spend much time being worked on I know I'd be all over it. Our ROI isn't going to be close to what some shops have seen so regardless of how great a $70K CTS machine is and how awesome they would make all of our lives it simply doesn't make financial sense when the ROI is 3-4 years. If a CTS would double our setup efficiency and double our screen throughput pre-press then $50-70K isn't hard to swallow.
Maybe Exile will want to beta test that $15K unit here :) and I can give everyone a real-time working review of it.
look into a rocket launcher. I am sure M&R will have some on trade in as ppl upgrade to ST. That should bring your price down to well below $20K. Straight up used versions seem to be a little above $10K.
pierre
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Alan you need one with a minimal output of 100 screens a day, other wise you will find out you just wasted 15k. Again, take ROI calcs on this type of tech and toss them, they don't apply and you can't really know that, unfortunately, until you are using CTS in place of films, ask anyone with one, even though it's been stated a million times on this forum by various guys. Get a single head ST at the minimum. As you need more output, add the second, and then 3rd print head, which is easily done the way M&R has designed it. If you guys are doing that much business, you will see the benefit in the first week of use. At least with M&R, there is a money back guarantee, which you won't take advantage of, trust me. In your position, I'd get the STE2 and call it a day! Never worry about wondering if your LED unit is exposing properly, and when not doing water based screens, the light bar and super fast print, man, you'd be running that thing for less than an hour before closing up and have every set up for the next day read. There is your ROI plain and simple. You already have the mack daddy dryer, package a GT3 and and STE2, boom, SRI is kilin it! ;D
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50 screens a day? Are you buying for your output now or the future Alan? 50 screens a day isn't much more than your making per day now right?
I don't know to tell you the truth and was essentially spouting off more than anything. I'm not sure it makes that much sense to buy a $15K CTS machine that will print 50 screens per day (just pulling numbers out of my butt here, they would probably be capable of more I would think but that's a good round number to go with) if we're at 80% of that but if the unit is reliable, let's say bulletproof, maybe it makes sense to buy the $15K unit, max it out and then just buy another one at the right time. You'll have the capability of 100 per day for $30K and the redundancy of 2 machines. But really I haven't put the proper amount of thought in this so I reserve the right to change my mind as we progress on this topic :). I think as it pertains to the CTS machines that are available today, buying one $60K CTS that will handle 200 screens per day would be better than having 2 $20K units that handled 100/day but if someone really put out a bulletproof basic machine then that would change things a lot. If we get over 50 screens per day we'll need another auto with the current color count and job size, so adding a cheaper 2nd CTS might be our only option but we are assuming a lot here. When we're busy we're at 40-50 per day but are still averaging 25-30 with ganging most everything. There was one day during our busiest week ever where we topped 50 screens in a day and I can't see us doing all that work with just one auto.
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Got ya.