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Computers and Software => Computers and Software - General => Topic started by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 12, 2016, 04:27:21 PM

Title: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 12, 2016, 04:27:21 PM
We'll survive. Most everything was backed up to some degree.

Most of my data loss arose from a klunky backup scheme. I've got my new server installed, and it is a hardware managed Raid 1. But as they say, "a RAID is NOT a backup", and I need to get started again. This is a Windo$e 7 box running the 64 bit "pro" version.

What is current thinking on backup plans in our group?

Thanks!
Stan
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Frog on January 12, 2016, 05:18:30 PM
I'm still a little old school, and back up to a removable drive in a hot swap tray every morning.
I'm betting that a great number use one of the online services.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 12, 2016, 05:43:56 PM
Is that an internal drive that slips into your cpu cabinet?

What software do you like for that? For some reason, 7 (and before that XP) reports incorrect folder sizes with my system. It will fail to backup using the Windows Backup sofware with an error message saying there isn't enough space on my backup drive. A drag and drop works, but I don't know if you can do incremental backups to a drag & dropped folder. I'm not quite tech-savvy enough. My current portable drive is a 1TB Toshiba with the metallic case.

I'm old school too. I have a Rosewill SATA dock that I have been considering as a port for a similar scheme. Platter-style HDD's seem pretty economical for larger data needs....although our (current) 360 gig certainly doesn't qualify as mammoth.

I was lulled into the trap of thinking the hardware has improved to the point I rarely have trouble.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Frog on January 12, 2016, 06:17:50 PM
Yep here it is
(http://www.kingwin.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/kf_811bk_header.png)

Read about it here
http://www.kingwin.com/kf-811-bk-2/ (http://www.kingwin.com/kf-811-bk-2/)
I'm sure there are fancier versions, but this does the trick.

Oh, and I am using Norton Ghost, something else that many may turn up their noses towards, in favor of Acronys or something else, but the one time I needed it when I needed to retrieve some lost Thunderbird email data, there it was!
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 12, 2016, 06:30:55 PM
So, your transfer speeds shouldn't be limited by a USB port, if I'm not mistaken. The internal bus speed and processer capabilities will way exceed a platter's limitations. No so, USB 2.0.

If I understand correctly even 3.0 ports--which I only have on my server currently--are slower than read/write speeds of a platter HDD. Am I right here? Of course speed isn't super critical for backups at 3AM, once the first, BIG chunk is saved.

Anyway, I DO like the idea of the front accessed, slide in port that connects directly to the motherboard.

I used to use Ghost, but never for data. But only for Operating System backups, and at that, it was always performed at the dos prompt level. Ghost in a Windows enviornment might be really good for data.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Gilligan on January 12, 2016, 06:52:19 PM
Transfer speeds are limited by SATA... it plugs directly in.

No internal USB <-> SATA adapter in there.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: kingscreen on January 12, 2016, 07:27:24 PM
After multiple crashes that cost me $$$ to recover, I moved everything to a cloud and never looked back.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Maff on January 12, 2016, 08:26:21 PM
We use Livedrive for automated backup.  It syncs up every night.  We also use their briefcase just for older stuff that needs to be stored away. 
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 05:52:51 AM
Only trouble with the cloud solution to me is imagine if you lost all your local data, pulling down what must be Terabytes of data for most of you like it is us would take forever from the cloud.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: 1964GN on January 13, 2016, 06:50:48 AM
We currently have the local hard drive that gets backed up to a USB external every night. I am going to add a cloud back up very soon. My thought is this. If the local drive goes belly up I have the external. If there is a hurricane, tornado, fire, etc and I lose everything local we are going to have plenty of time on our hands to retrieve the cloud back up.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 13, 2016, 07:10:39 AM
Only trouble with the cloud solution to me is imagine if you lost all your local data, pulling down what must be Terabytes of data for most of you like it is us would take forever from the cloud.


I agree. Like MONTHS maybe!??

I have an I.T. friend who likes CrashPlan because they supposedly will send you a Hard Drive with your data if you pay a fee. I think he said 150? or so last he knew. I looked on the site briefly but am still in flux.  Here is a copy/paste from the Cloudwards.net website. It has a positive review, but PCmag had some user reviews that are contrasting.

Speed up your backups with seeded backup

If you’ve made a backup over the internet before you know that transferring hundreds of gigabytes of data can take a while, sometimes weeks to finish. If you don’t want to wait that long Crashplan offers something called “seeded backups”.

You simply order an external hard drive which they send to you. Then, you can use their client to backup your data with Firewire and set that hard drive backup to Crashplan. They’ll take care of the rest. So, instead of waiting for weeks or possibly months you can have everything up and running in a couple of days.

Keep in mind, however, that this service cost $124.99 and is only available in the US.

http://www.cloudwards.net/review/crashplan/ (http://www.cloudwards.net/review/crashplan/)

My friend considers it as his "last line of defense" for data backup, not his primary. He works Linux I.T. for an largish insurance company (usually from his home) so his data needs are significant. He laughingly said for $60/year, CrashPlan certainly doesn't make much money on him. (2+ terabytes)
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 07:18:22 AM
Ya, thats a option for sure. Not bad on cost either.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 13, 2016, 07:38:02 AM
My current server (7 ult 64 bit) reports, incorrectly, the size on disk and available space. When I do full backups, they are sometimes cancelled because of space available. (Grrrr....) So I have to sort that out, or buy some much larger backup drives. I was told it was sort of a "Seven Thing" and is pretty hard to fix. (shrugs) A simple drag and drop of the shared folder works fine, but is waaaaaay slow, and that really is a big part of how this happened.

I need to look into cloud storage as another backup, for the backup, for the raid. 'Cus I'm gonna get The Stinkeye® from the office help every few days for months and months. Data care is supposefully another one of my jobs as the owner.  :o

Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jvanick on January 13, 2016, 08:11:04 AM
I've been hearing really good things about Synology from my other techy friends.

haven't tried it yet, but the feature set on their website is pretty impressive.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 08:44:32 AM
We use a Synology server for our shop. It's not the baddest mofo but gets it done. We have 5 x 4tb drives in it.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Admiral on January 13, 2016, 11:38:16 AM
5 bay Synology that backs up to another 5 bay Synology off site is how I set it up.  Easy to use, fast, reliable.  No monthly fees at all either.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jantexinks on January 13, 2016, 11:51:54 AM
The major problem with a local server is it doesn't protect against fire, flood, theft, etc. 
Take a look at the "3-2-1" back up plan.

3 Copies of a file
2 Different medias
1 Copy off site

In the grand scheme of things data back up is cheap and relatively easy.  You just have to make a plan and stick to it. 
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 11:56:00 AM
We considered a offsite synology to copy our local one, trouble is we move so much data our ISP (at home) would flag this and not play well with that. 

We have external drives we swap in and out to keep data offsite.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Racer Tees on January 13, 2016, 03:41:34 PM
I've been using Dropbox for a few years now and have lost a hard drive during that time. I keep everything synced on multiple computers and Dropbox will sync over lan. Plug both computers into my gigabit router and let them sync up. I think i have about 250gb on there and it doesn't take long.   Plus the fact that I can be working on art on the other computer while the one that was down gets synced back up.

Always have a backup plan. I lost 5 years of customer art once and it's not worth chancing.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jvanick on January 13, 2016, 04:07:26 PM
We considered a offsite synology to copy our local one, trouble is we move so much data our ISP (at home) would flag this and not play well with that. 

We have external drives we swap in and out to keep data offsite.


how much data do you modify per day?

you could always 'upgrade' your ISP at home to a 'business' level of service to work around any bandwidth caps.

your first sync should be done locally if possible, as to move a few TB of data would take a REALLY long time... heck, even copying to USB drives moving a few TB of data is worse than watching paint dry.

quote from my old days in IT... Never under-estimate the bandwidth of a station wagon heading down the highway full of tapes. --- Here's how I migrated roughly 50 TB of data a number of years ago.   For comparison, it would have taken roughly 4 months to move that amount of data on a 45mbps T3 pipe.

(http://www.oaknet.com/gallery/var/resizes/CDK/lower_level_basement_lab/IMG_0046.jpg?m=1330361010)
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 04:17:16 PM
We considered a offsite synology to copy our local one, trouble is we move so much data our ISP (at home) would flag this and not play well with that. 

We have external drives we swap in and out to keep data offsite.


how much data do you modify per day?

you could always 'upgrade' your ISP at home to a 'business' level of service to work around any bandwidth caps.

your first sync should be done locally if possible, as to move a few TB of data would take a REALLY long time... heck, even copying to USB drives moving a few TB of data is worse than watching paint dry.

quote from my old days in IT... Never under-estimate the bandwidth of a station wagon heading down the highway full of tapes. --- Here's how I migrated roughly 50 TB of data a number of years ago.   For comparison, it would have taken roughly 4 months to move that amount of data on a 45mbps T3 pipe.

([url]http://www.oaknet.com/gallery/var/resizes/CDK/lower_level_basement_lab/IMG_0046.jpg?m=1330361010[/url])


Gigs are changed / added daily here. You figure Erik here is often creating single files in the 1gb-2gb range. So would kill our home isp quick.  Business line at home might be the ticket though and have considered it for sure.  Of course we'd sync local first before hauling it home. 

Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jvanick on January 13, 2016, 04:20:16 PM
yeah, gigs per day would suck, and would likely be bad on ANY cloud-based backup methodology.  I do have to ask what you're doing with 1-2gb files tho...

man talk about some SLOW opening/saving over a network.



Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 13, 2016, 04:26:56 PM
yeah, gigs per day would suck, and would likely be bad on ANY cloud-based backup methodology.  I do have to ask what you're doing with 1-2gb files tho...

man talk about some SLOW opening/saving over a network.

Wraps/banners at times get this big. We also have some shirt files get huge like that as we often work much larger than required as customers often will have us take a shirt design and want much much larger items made. Rather than having to redo the artwork we just start large.  Saved so much time over the years.  Doesn't really save disk space though lol.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jvanick on January 13, 2016, 04:36:42 PM
I hear ya on the banners... I did one a few weeks back that was a 10' wide x 16' long for a race...

I couldn't deal with working with those files on a regular basis LOL.

you're right those files are HUGE.. I think that one, saved at 300dpi, was like 2.5gb.

Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: Itsa Little CrOoked on January 14, 2016, 06:10:37 AM
@ Jvanick  I don't even know what I'm looking at here. Are those tape carts?

I've never seen anything like that. (Plus, 50 terabytes is a TON of data!)
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: jvanick on January 14, 2016, 07:59:04 AM
@ Jvanick  I don't even know what I'm looking at here. Are those tape carts?

I've never seen anything like that. (Plus, 50 terabytes is a TON of data!)

nope, that's a EMC VNX disk array (enterprise class storage) with 8 drive bays chock full of 1tb drives (back when those drives were pricey).  The drives are in a raid5 configuration, so it nets out around 78ish TB of usable disk space (because 1tb isn't really 1tb, parity, and system drives). 

think of having 120 1TB drives in your computer and that's what you're looking at.

Before we were commonly able to get 10GigE circuits like area available now, this is how we would   'seed' new data centers.  Did this process about 4 times over the course of 6 years... just getting the data onto and off of the array was a challenge.  the shipping it half way across the country was easy.
Title: Re: My file server went down last week. Lost some data....
Post by: GraphicDisorder on January 14, 2016, 08:16:08 AM
One of my good friends is one of the top guys at Charter here in East TN. Got to tour their facility the other day. CRAZY stuff.  Just one of their routers with the license for it was over a million bucks.  It was crazy to think that just that one room controlled all of Tennessee's TV/Internet/Phone.  He even showed me the racks of drives where all the video on demand lives. There was a diesel generator that was as big as some buildings. Ran by Train engine.  Could power the building for months with the buried tanks.