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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: crstof on February 15, 2016, 09:41:54 AM
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Hi Everyone!
So i took the plunge recently and purchased a complete printing shop from Vastex. I have no prior experience with screen printing (besides a 3 day training course), and now i need to make a decision on what frames i should invest in.
I am definitely going for the panel screens as the hassle of buying loose fabric is not worth the cost savings to me.
Money is not a major concern here as i won't be needing a big qty of frames. Also i'm more interested with what would be better for my print work and quality. Also with what costs less on the long term in terms of maintenance / problems / headaches etc.
I have my options boiled down to Newman roller frames or the New EZ frames from Shurlock. A few industry experts i talked to recommended i go with the EZ frames. Personally, i saw a demonstrations of both at the ISS fair last month and was impressed by the two, but my lack of experience is preventing me from making a final decision...
It is my understanding that with roller frames you get more control over tension. you can also retention indefinitely (not sure how important this is), also and most important is that you can get really high tensions over 40 or 50 N... with the EZ frames it's around 30-40 on average (which might be enough for most work).
On the other hand they require more skill / training to change panels and stretch, also are more sensitive to breaking... also i read a lot about how roller frames require a lot of maintenance and care...
With the EZ frames, it's much easier and faster to set up the mesh panels obviously. Also i think the mesh is less prone to breaking or maybe better protected due to shape of the frames. (also they have the new Endurance line just released which is supposed to endure a lot more than the regular ones...). Re-tensioning, although limited to a few times, is also easy and fast.
On the other hand you can't control mesh tension exactly so less control. Also you can only re-tension the mesh a few times (4 times i think using the rods that you can insert) then again i'm not sure if you would ever need to re-tension more than 2 or 3 times in general...
So if anyone has any experience with these types of frames i would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Also, if you recommend the roller frames, would you recommend the roller master stretching device for stretching or do you think shurlock's Accelerator 2's system (which costs less than half the price of the roller master) will work just fine?
thanks a lot! all opinions / recommendations are highly appreciated!
Chris
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one point I want to make first:
most printers with roller frames are printing (even award winning work) in the 30-35N range with standard mesh, or far lower (22-24N) with S/Thin thread mesh.
I prefer the roller frames as it allows you to keep your frames in a much more consistent tension range after work hardening... I prefer most of my frames to be within +/- 2N of each other as it makes registration on press so much easier.
We use a shurloc accelerator-X and have no issues with it at all.. it's a bit more finicky while tensioning than say a newman roller master as if you do staged tensioning, it does lose tension each step of the way up, but then again it costs 1/3 and is much more portable.
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It's a myth about being in the 40-50n's, and actually becomes a negative when going that high. Anything over 30 is really unnecessary. Roller frames are the way to go though over the ez frames if you want control and consistency. We also stretch our screens differently to get an even tension while printing, which we couldn't do with ez frames.
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I, on the other hand, would be OK with good quality statics. Newmans will probably have too steep of a learning curve for somebody just getting started. Obviously, if you are not busy you'll have time to tinker with them, but EZ frames are good to go quickly and require little maintenance. If you go much higher than 20N you'll be breaking panels left and right until you learn how to handle them. Go the cheap and easy route until ready for the Newmans.
pierre
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whatever you choose, make sure it is a system you can grow into and stick with. One thing you do NOT want is to have a mix match of frames. ask me how I know. we have panelframes (knock off ez frames), statics, some rollers too.
we are in the process of ditching everything and going to S mesh statics. it fits our shop the best. not for everyone but it makes a world of difference for us.
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I've used both for several years each and prefer the roller frames, but I think that someone in your shoes could go either and not really be affected either way. A much more important factor for you would be the type of mesh counts you will use. A poorly tensioned thin thread screen will outperform a properly tensioned standard mesh count under most scenarios. Rollers will definitely give you the most control which I prefer but the EZ frames served us well for the 3 years we used them.
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From a newbie: there are so, so many variables to learn in the first year of printing that you will want to standardise and reduce fuss as much as possible. To me this makes EZ frames your clear winner. Don't add the intricacies of remeshing to your screen printing adventure just yet...
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Roller frames with Shur-Loc panels are the way to go. They're not cheap, but taken care of they'll give you the best service.
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Not sure which size frames you are looking at getting, but I have over 50 of the MZX frames I am selling, I need to upgrade to a larger frame size. over 90% of these have properly tensioned new mesh on them as well. PM if you are interested. I could help you get started for a lot cheaper than going brand new
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I'm mad enough when one of my guys rips a MZX stretched with bolt mesh... I don't know if I could go to the shur-locs....
Ok maybe not mad. Im just disappointed.
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From strictly a cost standpoint, statics are the best shot. On top of that wood statics. Use them until you can't then buy new. This by far is the least expensive way to go and the easiest learning curve. To truly benefit from any other type of frame requires a pretty extensive knowledge so that when all goes wrong you will know what to adjust.
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I sent from statics to Newmans to Ez frames with S mesh.
I still think that Newmans are the best, but only if you are maintaining them. If not, they are just very expensive statics. And I wasn't maintaining them.
EZ frames are cheaper, the stretching device is a lot cheaper, the frames are always flat, and if you are using a back clamp press, which you are, you can easily gang Images. In fact I would go with 23x31's. You can easily put two images on most screens, and will be ready to go if you ever go automatic.
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Hi Everyone!
So i took the plunge recently and purchased a complete printing shop from Vastex. I have no prior experience with screen printing (besides a 3 day training course), and now i need to make a decision on what frames i should invest in.
I am definitely going for the panel screens as the hassle of buying loose fabric is not worth the cost savings to me.
Money is not a major concern here as i won't be needing a big qty of frames. Also i'm more interested with what would be better for my print work and quality. Also with what costs less on the long term in terms of maintenance / problems / headaches etc.
I have my options boiled down to Newman roller frames or the New EZ frames from Shurlock. A few industry experts i talked to recommended i go with the EZ frames. Personally, i saw a demonstrations of both at the ISS fair last month and was impressed by the two, but my lack of experience is preventing me from making a final decision...
It is my understanding that with roller frames you get more control over tension. you can also retention indefinitely (not sure how important this is), also and most important is that you can get really high tensions over 40 or 50 N... with the EZ frames it's around 30-40 on average (which might be enough for most work).
On the other hand they require more skill / training to change panels and stretch, also are more sensitive to breaking... also i read a lot about how roller frames require a lot of maintenance and care...
With the EZ frames, it's much easier and faster to set up the mesh panels obviously. Also i think the mesh is less prone to breaking or maybe better protected due to shape of the frames. (also they have the new Endurance line just released which is supposed to endure a lot more than the regular ones...). Re-tensioning, although limited to a few times, is also easy and fast.
On the other hand you can't control mesh tension exactly so less control. Also you can only re-tension the mesh a few times (4 times i think using the rods that you can insert) then again i'm not sure if you would ever need to re-tension more than 2 or 3 times in general...
So if anyone has any experience with these types of frames i would appreciate your thoughts on the matter.
Also, if you recommend the roller frames, would you recommend the roller master stretching device for stretching or do you think shurlock's Accelerator 2's system (which costs less than half the price of the roller master) will work just fine?
thanks a lot! all opinions / recommendations are highly appreciated!
Chris
Think about this, most carpenters start with a few hammers before they acquire a selection of air nailers, this is the basic tool of their trade.
The basic tool of a screen printer is the screen. So is a static screen good enough, of course. Is a reten better, of course. Do you need to start with the reten, would be nice but you need to know how to use it.
Back to the carpenter example, the first time the apprentice carpenter uses an air nailer it generally looks like some kind of massacre, same with high tension frames and respecting your mesh. Without the proper respect your frame is not flat and you try to run at high tension and blow a lot of mesh.
Buy stuff from someone you trust, before and after the sale, get the best value from your dollars and add 'better' tools as your productivity and PROFITability allow.
My 2 cents
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thanks for all of the input guys!
we will be printing a lot of white plastisol on dark garments, any recommendations on mesh panels? i know newman mesh panels are very strong, durable, and high quality in general, but i also heard really good things about the shurlock S panels... any ideas on which is better for thick white plastisol?
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S mesh is fragile but the benefits of the large mesh openings will make that thick white ink print with less effort.
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thanks for all of the input guys!
we will be printing a lot of white plastisol on dark garments, any recommendations on mesh panels? i know newman mesh panels are very strong, durable, and high quality in general, but i also heard really good things about the shurlock S panels... any ideas on which is better for thick white plastisol?
We print with mostly 150/48 when printing white "Approximately 80% of the time
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thanks for all of the input guys!
we will be printing a lot of white plastisol on dark garments, any recommendations on mesh panels? i know newman mesh panels are very strong, durable, and high quality in general, but i also heard really good things about the shurlock S panels... any ideas on which is better for thick white plastisol?
We print with mostly 150/48 when printing white "Approximately 80% of the time
We use mostly 160/48 for our white plates. Prefer the 160 over the 150 as it comes in white and is more noticable that its a underbase or single color screen.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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So, here's my take on it (unbiased of course!!!)
<start shameless plug>
We love roller frames, we really do. We still sell about 80% of our panels in Roller variety, and if you missed it at ISS Long Beach, the Endurance Panels make them even better than our original panels. If you haven't seen them yet, hit up our YouTube Channel (shurloc.com/youtube) for a quick peek. I think the EZ Video is the only one posted there, but it gives you the general idea of what they are.
That said, static frames are the Polaroid of the screen industry. You take a snap shot and seconds later you have a great little picture. The roller frame is like an SLR camera. Total control, high end accessories and amazing final products can come off of them with some tweaking and experimenting. The E-Z Frame is like a point and shoot camera. To steal the line from TV, you set it and forget it... At least until now...
The entire E-Z Frame experience changed with the Endurance Panel. 6 years ago when the EZ Frame came out, this is what EVERYONE wanted. Full retensionability, exact control, any meshes you want, and a panel that is almost indestructible. It basically, for lack of a better term, is a game changer. The frame does cost a bit more, but the money you save in shipping replacement fabrics (with the ability to wad them up due to there being no permanent plastic on board) will easily make up the difference in the cost of the frame in just a few shipments. Then you have the extended fabric life that the panels will give you over traditional mesh since almost every inch of exposed edge is doubled up and protected by the Endurance Strip.
If you have a roller frame setup, you're just a panel and a set of rods away from trying one out. If you have EZ Frames, you can order a set of bars with rods and a panel to get rolling. If you're a first timer, I can pre-stretch you a frame with one on it and let you try it out that way. Just let me know! We're really excited to get you guys the next big thing and get feedback from you on it. Some of you already chimed in at the LB Show and we're already working in some of the ideas - and we're sure there are more out there!
Shoot me an email - ron @ shurloc . com to find out more - and visit our Facebook Page (shurloc.com/facebook) to stay up to date with our deals!
<end shameless plug>