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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 01:12:08 PM

Title: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 01:12:08 PM
Someone wants to throw in a few 50/50 (or 60/40) tanks in an order. Black shirts, Gold shimmer (IC)
I was not going to underbase as many seem to prefer the look of straight P-F-P with these.

Should I expect a problem with dye migration?
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: jvanick on February 24, 2016, 01:44:43 PM
We just had issues with this on 100% poly... had to underbase with bleed blocking base...

Total shocker...
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 01:52:43 PM
I was afraid of that, but of course, poly can be worse than 60/40 especially if the Poly is Red or red-related, and the blend is not.
So, you also would rather do these without an underbase? PFP through a 140 or 160?


I have an IC tech who is supposed to be calling me back.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: tiffany on February 24, 2016, 01:55:53 PM
We just had issues with this on 100% poly... had to underbase with bleed blocking base...

Total shocker...

But, we did not have any issues on the bella triblend, that went fine. 
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: jvanick on February 24, 2016, 01:58:31 PM
I was afraid of that, but of course, poly can be worse than 60/40 especially if the Poly is Red or red-related, and the blend is not.
So, you also would rather do these without an underbase? PFP through a 140 or 160?


I have an IC tech who is supposed to be calling me back.
This one was black.

Customer complaint was "it was fading"  my response -- how does glitter/shimmer fade?

Unfortunately it was contract printing, so we didn't get to see the end result/issue.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 02:02:30 PM
We just had issues with this on 100% poly... had to underbase with bleed blocking base...

Total shocker...

But, we did not have any issues on the bella triblend, that went fine.

And that was p-f-p? What mesh?
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: ebscreen on February 24, 2016, 02:10:17 PM
Yep.

If it's a bleeder it will bleed into shimmer. The additional curing time we like for these inks doesn't help.
We used to have a low-bleed silver but have long forgotten who made it.

The feel of shimmer on a poly blend makes me nauseous so I'm not gonna worry about it.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: jvanick on February 24, 2016, 02:43:21 PM
Yep.

If it's a bleeder it will bleed into shimmer. The additional curing time we like for these inks doesn't help.
We used to have a low-bleed silver but have long forgotten who made it.

The feel of shimmer on a poly blend makes me nauseous so I'm not gonna worry about it.

try matsui wb shimmer...

on a black underbase.. amazing feeling

heck, Tiffany just did a:

black underbase
flash
silver shimmer
flash
silver glitter

job on poly with waterbase inks and it turned out absolutely amazing.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: ebscreen on February 24, 2016, 03:14:16 PM
The matsui WB shimmer we tried years ago was really no better than plastisol, possibly worse
in terms of feel. It came direct from Japan then with instructions in kanji. We'll have to give
it another whirl.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: tiffany on February 24, 2016, 03:33:50 PM

We just had issues with this on 100% poly... had to underbase with bleed blocking base...

Total shocker...

But, we did not have any issues on the bella triblend, that went fine.

And that was p-f-p? What mesh?

Yes, pfp on the triblend, 160s for the shimmer.   


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 05:31:06 PM
I spoke with an IC tech, and he suggests a low cure additive, and lower heat longer time, but of course, still a crap shoot as the base has no blocking abilities at all.
I'm talking 'em into making the tanks cotton like the rest of the order!
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: ZooCity on February 24, 2016, 09:25:38 PM
The matsui WB shimmer we tried years ago was really no better than plastisol, possibly worse
in terms of feel. It came direct from Japan then with instructions in kanji. We'll have to give
it another whirl.

Same experience.  The plastisol actually feels better.  Also didn't want to clear a 90/71 mesh without a fight....

I've seen shimmers printed straight to good quality, not especially migration prone 50/50s bleed out in the longer haul which is what really bothers me since nobody sees it for the first month or more.

These inks are clear particle base with shiny flakes and maybe a dash of pigment so it makes sense.  Underbase if in any doubt. 
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on February 24, 2016, 09:50:51 PM

These inks are clear particle base with shiny flakes and maybe a dash of pigment so it makes sense.  Underbase if in any doubt.

Point is, these would be six lousy 60/40 tanks added to a cotton order. Not worth the lowbleed underbase screen for that.
They're goin' cotton!
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: tpitman on February 24, 2016, 10:09:41 PM
I printed 20 purple 50/50 blends with the IC gold shimmer today. P/F/P. I've done this job 4 or 5 times before. Print through a 156. I can't say the job stayed in my shop long enough to see if there were any sublimation issues, but they keep coming back for reprints about once a year. I do increase the dwell time because I know with Union's shimmer washout was a problem with undercuring.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: tonypep on February 25, 2016, 08:05:03 AM
We do thousands for a major fitness brand with a DC/UB and waterbased shimmer. Started out using the LC catalyst but ended up not needing it. Kicks ass.......super soft and superior finish with no bleed
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: endhymns on April 04, 2017, 11:30:05 AM
Resurrecting this thread for a quick question. A client wants to run a gold shimmer on an order, half on 100% cotton tees and half of the order of NL 60/40 tanks (navy). While I'd love to talk them into 100% cotton tanks as well, before I go that route I wanted to see if I should expect an issue not underbasing on the 60/40 tanks? I have a small oven and struggle keeping my temp low for an appropriate dwell time so my gut tells me I should use a black blocker ub. My preferred route would be to use a wb black blocker with warp drive and Wilflex Gold Shimmer on top, but as a less appealing alternative, I could run Wilflex Performance in the ub as well. Regardless, I'd love to run the 100% cotton and blends the same for a similar look. Thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: inkbrigade on April 04, 2017, 11:55:12 AM
 endhymns, We use Rutland shimmers here and have never had an issue with dye migration on blends but then again with gold shimmer we tend to ub with vegas gold as we think it makes the shimmer gold "pop" a bit more.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: whitewater on April 04, 2017, 12:06:20 PM
we use the union shimmers.. we have not had any problems bleeding..on any garments..
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: endhymns on April 04, 2017, 12:51:17 PM
That's what I was hoping to hear. I'll give this a go without an ub and if I run into any issues, I'll run a Vegas Gold base which sounds ideal. Thanks for the responses, guys.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: mimosatexas on April 04, 2017, 01:10:47 PM
I use and love wilflex epic liquid gold and it is a performance ink.  Never had any issues with bleeding and have printed it without an underbase on black poly a few times and a bunch of comfort colors and blends that tend to bleed a little.
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: Frog on April 04, 2017, 03:22:26 PM
I use and love wilflex epic liquid gold and it is a performance ink.  Never had any issues with bleeding and have printed it without an underbase on black poly a few times and a bunch of comfort colors and blends that tend to bleed a little.
Of course, it's a true metallic and not a shimmer
Title: Re: Shimmers on 50/50 tend to bleed?
Post by: ZooCity on April 04, 2017, 04:30:35 PM
We haven't seen major bleed with true metallics and smaller/mid size particle inks (shimmers) but have seen it get bad with glitters.  I think there's just so much clear base there for dye to work into and so much space between the flakes that you end up seeing it. 

It's going to really come down to your fabric, test it!