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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: SI on March 24, 2016, 02:22:25 PM
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I have a job for some white Discharge ink on 50/50's The customer wants them Opaque. I had planned on doing a 80/20 clear/white underbase, with a white HSA on top. A second method I had thought would be to print it plastisol style and do two passes of HSA white p/f/p. Anyone here tried that on black shirts? This would save me a screen and the hassles of registering on a run of 40 shirts.
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Use magna super white .Also works on 50/50. Nobody makes same as magna superwhite.
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CCI Pure White. it's waterbased, but prints great. Might not work as a single screen on black shirts but we get away with it on most other colors.
pierre
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I didn't think 50/50 would discharge very good, the few I've tried look tan or beige looking not at all bright white.
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the 50/50 do not discharge good, that is why i was going to go with a topcoat of HSA. Just wasn't sure if p/f/p with HSA white would work the same as printing plastisol.
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If the 50/50 discharges reasonably well (most black 50/50s don't) then I would do DC UB + HSA White. Wash test this first, not all HSA ink will adhere over a discharge base, many will look great out the dryer and flake and crack off after washing.
If they don't discharge well you can revolve a screen of HSA but I would consider using 2 screens with a dye blocking HSA for the UB. This is shirt, dye and ink dependent, some HSAs have surprising bleed resistance, others don't.
CCI Pure White is an HSA, fyi. Decent product at a good price but there's no other inks in that system from CCI so you'll need to test compatibility with other HSA systems. It is NOT compatible with standard water based inks may or may not be ok over a DC UB.
Hope that helps a little.
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If the 50/50 discharges reasonably well (most black 50/50s don't) then I would do DC UB + HSA White. Wash test this first, not all HSA ink will adhere over a discharge base, many will look great out the dryer and flake and crack off after washing.
If they don't discharge well you can revolve a screen of HSA but I would consider using 2 screens with a dye blocking HSA for the UB. This is shirt, dye and ink dependent, some HSAs have surprising bleed resistance, others don't.
CCI Pure White is an HSA, fyi. Decent product at a good price but there's no other inks in that system from CCI so you'll need to test compatibility with other HSA systems. It is NOT compatible with standard water based inks may or may not be ok over a DC UB.
Hope that helps a little.
interesting! We are getting great opacity from it so I am surprised to hear it's HSA as it covers great and we have no real issues printing it.
Based on their sheet, the pigments they sell are compatible with it, so we should be able to make most colors with it.
pierre
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What Chris said. It does bleed though. We've used it with warp drive and had good results.
40 pieces I'd one screen it. As low of mesh as the art will support and yes you pretty much have
to double stroke it.
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Pierre, I think the Pure White is actually great product. From what I recall it had surprising opacity for being so runny and easy to print on higher mesh counts. We made some very nice prints with it. I would revisit it but I prefer to use systems that are more complete and tested by the mfg rather than requiring us to test every iteration we print. You can make a comparable ink out of Matsui's system I hear by combining Stretch White with standard WB White.
The pigments are compatible with Pure White but you must only use Pure White. CCI folks told me that it was ok to overprint WB colors on top of the Pure White. Don't do this unless you want your customers bringing back shirts as they wash them. WB ink will not adhere well over the HSA base. You should be fine tinting the Pure White with PCs though, just watch the pigment loading into the already loaded white ink.
Is there a clear Pure base now? Otherwise you're limited to pastels since you must start with the white.
Oh and, fyi, I just remembered we printed Pure White over a DC UB on a job and it did well.
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Chris:
What have you chosen as your go to HSA white?
I have tried the Ryonet white and Matsui 301 stretch - by itself. Still not sure after it is all said and done....
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Matsui 301 Stretch
I should try the green galaxy again but last time my guys tested it they gave it the thumbs down. Not enough opacity, seemed like it was more filler than killer, something along those lines.
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Printing discharge on 50/50 black garments for us has been for the most part a very horrible experience. Lots of non black 50/50 garments no problem at all but on an american apparel, next level, or gildan 50/50 blank forget about a discharge(at least in our shop). I have found some of the absolute worst bleeding garments are black 50/50's and they are difficult to print on imo. Here's a job we ran today where the order was 50/50 hoodies, t's, and some tri blends as well. Granted this is not discharge but the ink has a very very soft hand to it(smooth and silky feel to it). This was using all hsa green galaxy inks. 3 colors total - 1. Black Blocker underbase, 2. Comet White, and 3. GG PMS 108 yellow...... All done on 150/48 mesh, double strokes and it looks fantastic. The blocker black stops all the migration of dye releasing yet gives you almost no hand.
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That's looking good for a single UB Danny. How's the bridging of the ink film?
I agree that Black 50/50 can be a hassle. We even had some Black 60/40 bleed out on us running Quick White a few weeks ago, totally sucks when that happens randomly.
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Hello Danny,
That is exactly the inks I have. I have Green galaxy HSA black and white. Printing on port and company 50/50. It is a contract job and they I have explained the issues with 50/50 shirts with them. So basically a very similar setup.
For your black blocker did you use the GG HSA pitch black or is that a separate type of black. I am guessing flash in between?
Second is the HSA GG white is pretty thick stuff out of the bucket, do you guys thin it at all?
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So, the black that we use for a base is not regular pitch black. It's a new ink formulated specifically to be a blocker underbase. I have never tested the pitch black as a base but comparing the inks in the bucket they are vastly different.
Here's a pic of the bucket as I'm not sure the product is released yet.
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How much does that bucket weigh.. All the blockers I've used had mass amounts of carbon in them and really added to the total ink weight
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I would also highly suggest Permaset Super Cover white. We use GG for cotton but go straight to Super Cover for blends. There is a reason behind the pricing.
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Matsui 301 Stretch
I should try the green galaxy again but last time my guys tested it they gave it the thumbs down. Not enough opacity, seemed like it was more filler than killer, something along those lines.
Yea, the GG has almost no evaporation and is Extremely consistent in terms of opacity over the life of the run.... but is definitely lower in opacity. Also has more of a hand than I want.
I found the matsui 301 stretch white to be reallly damn close to rutlands HSA white. But I HAVE to add the retarder and softener to it to get close to that quality.
Oh, and it still evaporates over time, making it increase its opacity just like Rutlands did.
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Yeah, the Stretch White was the closest replacement out of everything I tested. Nothing on the market that I've tried beats the Rutland though, RIP.
Always max retarder here for us. The Rutland actually required more of an additive cocktail than the Matsui does so that's an improvement.
The GG sounds good if they could make it more opaque, it's nice to be able to print HSA with only one underbase. I like the idea of the ink staying consistent over the run v. opacity changes as it evaporates and the subsequent need to re-hydrate and therefore drop opacity and so on.
Speaking of all this, anyone hear word about the Rutland replacement?
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Not sure when the customer needs this order, so I probably won't have time to order any of these alternative inks. Going to try to push them to plastisol
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BTW HSA top coat over plastisol=adhesion and washfastness. Fail
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Why would you print hsa over a plastisol base?
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Indeed
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HSA top white over a 80/20 discharge base could work and feel really nice tho...
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I meant complete plastisol, no HSA at all.