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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: ZooCity on April 16, 2016, 08:21:01 PM
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Is anyone in a space where they used existing black iron compressed air runs that were run wet/dirty? My scenario is a former truck or auto repair site, 35+ years old, with comp air ran to each bay but no filtration or chiller ever used and assuming there is no major leaks and that the service air pipe i.d. is adequate to serve the useage.
Wondering if it's worth using existing and filtering extensively before air enters machines or if that just equals constant cleaning and filter replacement and therefore it's easier to just run fresh pipe despite the large up front cost of quality, new, rigid.
I understand this is extremely situational but would love to hear from anyone who's done it.
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I actually had to deal with this exact scenario, well, that and along with removing 40+ years of oil and grease from a concrete floor.. I have a few tips for that too if you're tired of ruining a dropped shirt :)
I sent my air all the way through the entire shop and then on one of the vertical drops I installed a $30-40 Kobalt water trap (make sure you get one that supports your needed CFM) before connecting it to my automatic, since my lines were ran along the rafters the moisture naturally was going to drop down and enter the line, but the filter/trap that I installed worked perfectly and I drained it daily, and it auto drains if the air pressure drops and allows it.
Once I installed the filter, i noticed that the water trap on my press itself never discharged anything and all the lines remained clear.
Hope it helps!
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Thanks. Sounds like it's an option and I'd much rather buy a handful of filters than 3k in pipe.
All ears to any tips for getting grease off a shop floor
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Pull some of the drops and see what the inside looks like. Personally I would just replace with what you need and be done with it. Do you really want to take a chance on a $100k+ equipment over maybe $1k in plumbing.
Look for an industrial floor degreaser, Zep (industral stuff not the Home Depot stuff) has some nice products. I used their Marine Formula 50 on a shop floor, scrubbed it in with a stiff brush then power washed it.
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Existing pipe is in the concrete, stubbed out at each of the former truck bays. I can't imagine them being anywhere near clean! I'm with you that new pipe is best, then you know exactly what you are feeding the presses and run no risk of the crew missing PM on a filter and choking out air, etc. I always try to use what's in a building first though.
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I tried Simple Green, and Zep Degreaser, the best solution to clean the oil and grease from the floor was the cheapest powdered washing detergent you can find (I found the one that worked best was in the hispanic area of our local grocery store). Sprinkle it around, suds it up and scrub a bit with a broom/brush and then power wash it. Of course we washed it before we had much equipment in the shop but as long as you have some floor drains you might be able to make due with just a garden hose sprayer and see how it goes.
With the filter in place, as long as the compressor is not on 100% of the time, it will auto drain, but I never once had a failure and my press had a water trap/filter on it as well, and if someone forgets and it actually clogs up enough to kill the CFM needed (which mine never did), a simple drain and you're back to printing. Sometimes a simple solution is the best and works out better for the pocket book at the time.
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Why is your piping so expensive, I've worked for years with irrigation pipes used for gardens.
Really easy to install and not that expensive.
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Why is your piping so expensive, I've worked for years with irrigation pipes used for gardens.
Really easy to install and not that expensive.
I did golf course irrigation as a kid with my dad, thousands of miles of pipe and yeah it's cheap and wicked easy, for water.
Compressed air is a no-go for PVC.
Copper or blackwall or the new stainless quick connect stuff.
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I would leave the lines in and just put in particulate filters either on every piece of equipment or at every air hose connection. They mount just like an oiler or a water/oil separator. That is the easier route...
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I would leave the lines in and just put in particulate filters either on every piece of equipment or at every air hose connection. They mount just like an oiler or a water/oil separator. That is the easier route...
Exactly what I'm mulling. Maybe find a way to flush out the pipes prior to cleaning the space up? I know the black iron will continue to corrode but it should begin to minimize once feeding clean, dry air through it.
Maxie, jsheridan is correct, don't use pvc for comp air. It's useable but not worth it for exposed pipe. If/when the pipes shatter they blast plastic shrapnel everywhere. Our system runs at 135psi at the comp and through the loop, that's enough to hurt somebody bad should a section of pipe kerplode.
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...first place I worked at in '93 had a 12 color Challenger that was fed via PVC across a small section on the floor. Accidentally kicked it one day walking around the press and it exploded. Yes, plastic shrapnel shot everywhere. No injuries or anything, but man was that LOUD. I think it happend a few times after I left too.
...remember you are down for whatever time it takes to repair the pipe. Ergo, not a good idea.
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OSHA doesn't recommend the use of PVC for compressed air applications either...
I wouldn't want to be on the 'employer' side of an insurance claim if someone got hurt from an exploding pvc pipe.
Edit: just found the OSHA 'recommendations' for pvc and compressed air.
https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html (https://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19880520.html)
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...first place I worked at in '93 had a 12 color Challenger that was fed via PVC across a small section on the floor. Accidentally kicked it one day walking around the press and it exploded. Yes, plastic shrapnel shot everywhere. No injuries or anything, but man was that LOUD. I think it happend a few times after I left too.
...remember you are down for whatever time it takes to repair the pipe. Ergo, not a good idea.
Wow, that's just plain dumb. Not that you kicked it but I can't believe the pipe was just on the floor.
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I'm not using PVC
There is 16 bar PE pipe with fittings that any really easy to use.
I've used this for 15 years without any problems.
http://www.plasson.com/content/page/mechanical-fittings (http://www.plasson.com/content/page/mechanical-fittings)
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Here is what I run for all our lines except the press. The press is fed by copper. Good stuff and easy to install. For a hundred bucks you can add a couple of lines and make it look super clean. They sell their stuff on Amazon at a discount.
http://www.rapidairproducts.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjwi9K4BRCQzq7d1c6A_XASJABueAO2vjZKTwArqE82vbY-Yld07o0gQ3M7L6Gr88lsnHH5dxoCtRDw_wcB (http://www.rapidairproducts.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjwi9K4BRCQzq7d1c6A_XASJABueAO2vjZKTwArqE82vbY-Yld07o0gQ3M7L6Gr88lsnHH5dxoCtRDw_wcB)
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Here is what I run for all our lines except the press. The press is fed by copper. Good stuff and easy to install. For a hundred bucks you can add a couple of lines and make it look super clean. They sell their stuff on Amazon at a discount.
[url]http://www.rapidairproducts.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjwi9K4BRCQzq7d1c6A_XASJABueAO2vjZKTwArqE82vbY-Yld07o0gQ3M7L6Gr88lsnHH5dxoCtRDw_wcB[/url] ([url]http://www.rapidairproducts.com/?gclid=CjwKEAjwi9K4BRCQzq7d1c6A_XASJABueAO2vjZKTwArqE82vbY-Yld07o0gQ3M7L6Gr88lsnHH5dxoCtRDw_wcB[/url])
I use the same stuff... their FastPipe is interesting as well, too bad it needs to be truck shipped.
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I just did a full install of the Fastpipe, and it's fantastic. I did a ceiling loop,about a quarter of which of which I tied into existing 1.5" black iron, and then drops to manifolds for finishing equipment, and 3/4" hose for two Sportsman presses.
Crazy easy to install.
Nice thing is I can pull the whole thing down by myself and re-install it in another building if required.
Tip on the black iron: zip tie several shirts to an open of the pipe end and open up the compressor and blow out as much scale as you can. Filter and dryer the air going in and filter it again at point of use.
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I outfitted my new shop with the Maxline kit , really easy to use and the 100' kit did everything I needed, I liked that you can curve the pipe without using 90* elbows. Also remember when they list 3/4", 1" etc that is ID. great stuff didn't have any install problems and the tools were included. Would highly recommend. Also I bought enough to do my home work shop ;)
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Same debate here, pex-al-pex or black iron. Already have rubber for the drops.
Since the pipe is in the ground could you flush it with a mild caustic or something?
Though you'd want to be sure it all of it was removed before attaching equipment.
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Same debate here, pex-al-pex or black iron. Already have rubber for the drops.
Since the pipe is in the ground could you flush it with a mild caustic or something?
Though you'd want to be sure it all of it was removed before attaching equipment.
Yeah I was barking up that tree for a minute but I would worry about getting it 100% clean of corrosives. Too bad there isn't a roto rooter type deal for these lines or some kind of abrasive, high speed brush you could snake in there.
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Dirty lines, enough said. Move on.
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Spend a little money now or a whole lot later. Not worth Fng with nasty old air. However I am sure south of the border what you have is perfectly fine as it sits.....lol
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Let me say one more thing about airlines. I am not an airline design expert but this is how I see it. No matter how dry your air is going into the pipe it will condensate. Sending air under ground will force condensation because of the drop in temp. Lets say its very little almost none. Even a little water under grown like that will have no outlet. So it will build. It will build to the point that your pipe will fill over time. Now you have to push your dry clean air through water to get to your press. In my opinion you should run your air up hill as far as much as possible in your system. What this does is drains the pipe back to the compressor /chiller. This way you can drain off the water.
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You can flush it with diesel, maybe even shoot a pig through it but the time, expense and disposal it will be cheaper in the long run just to run new. There is always the posiabilty with the age any kind of disturbance could cause a leak somewhere it can not be reached then you are replacing it anyway.
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Let me say one more thing about airlines. I am not an airline design expert but this is how I see it. No matter how dry your air is going into the pipe it will condensate. Sending air under ground will force condensation because of the drop in temp. Lets say its very little almost none. Even a little water under grown like that will have no outlet. So it will build. It will build to the point that your pipe will fill over time. Now you have to push your dry clean air through water to get to your press. In my opinion you should run your air up hill as far as much as possible in your system. What this does is drains the pipe back to the compressor /chiller. This way you can drain off the water.
I agree. I like the air up in the air and like to see goosenecks used on all drops. And that's a good point, the name "chiller" implies how it does it's job, not the temp of air coming out if it, which should be room temp. Sinking it below concrete will only encourage condensation of any remaining water and, more likely, that dry air will be constantly picking up the moisture that's down there.
Sometimes, no matter how much you want to use what is existing you just have to go new. I'm not cheap but I hate installing things around existing things that serve the same purpose. Too bad mechanics air tools didn't require clean, dry air.