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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 08:02:58 PM

Title: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 08:02:58 PM
Of course at 4:55 pm with only 4 shirts left to print my press stops indexing. I look down and this dohickey i believe is what controls its is not functioning. What should I be looking at doing? I have to go home now but I will have to get dirty tomorrow and see what I can find.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: jvanick on April 20, 2016, 08:12:07 PM
that's the 'shock' for the indexer... it pretty much 'smoothes' out the index stroke.

if it's not indexing, more likely you have a bad solenoid or bad prox switch somewhere.

what are the idiot lights saying?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 08:42:42 PM
I wish it had idiot lights, it probably would help me feel like less of one.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: jvanick on April 20, 2016, 08:46:16 PM
I thought the gauntlett had like 4 or 5 leds on the control panel that showed what the plc was thinking?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 08:48:34 PM
The only led lights on t he front panel are showing if you had a flash assigned to a station, other than that the little plc window doesn't say much, maybe I can dig down into the menus and hope for some sort of diagnostics.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Homer on April 20, 2016, 08:56:43 PM
G those lights should be blinking in a sequence, like heads 2 and 5 lights should be blinking if you are in mid index.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 08:59:07 PM
Never seen that Homie in the 2 + years I've had it.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: cbjamel on April 20, 2016, 10:19:06 PM
What year Gauntlet S.
Shane
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 10:22:58 PM
Off the top of my head I believe a 96.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 20, 2016, 10:55:43 PM
Control panel looks like this, lights never flashed since I owned it and the lcd screen only has worked intermitenally but the press really has been trouble free for the past two years except for a sticky valve every now and then until now, and I'm dead in the water unless it's a simple wire or something like that as I'm not mechanically inclined at all. Tried replacing a Mac valve once and that was a big fail. Got a bum knee so makes it hard to get down there.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Binkspot on April 21, 2016, 05:26:54 AM
There are lights on the PLC to indicate function inside the box.
If it just stopped it could be the selinoind valve on the indexer or coil, prox switch, safety cable, e stop button, safety circuit, etc.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 21, 2016, 10:31:29 AM
How do I go about testing these things?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: ScreenFoo on April 21, 2016, 10:47:36 AM
I'd +1 the safety cord, especially.  One that's intermittent will make you very, very angry.

Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 21, 2016, 05:51:49 PM
All the safety cords seem to be fine, and they were all new 2 years ago, I'm at a loss and have no clue what I'm even looking at
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 21, 2016, 05:54:21 PM
.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 22, 2016, 11:02:01 AM
M&r emailed me and said to put oil in the airline of the index cylinder. I'm gonna try that after I get my root canal this morning.  :(
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 26, 2016, 04:29:36 PM
Ok I have a massive air leak coming from the coil. I attached pics showing where. M&R tech says the whole air cylinder needs replacing. Other independent tech says its the valve assembly and M&R support told me to take apart the valve assembly and rebuild it. Any other opinions here?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: ebscreen on April 26, 2016, 04:34:26 PM
Don't know about Norgren but on SMC valves there's a little gasket that goes inbetween the two pieces you're pointing at.
A small phillips should give you an idea of what's going on.

If the cylinder is bad I would think you'd hear air escaping from either the cylinder itself or the relief ports
on the valve.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 26, 2016, 04:42:22 PM
No gasket there, there is a gasket where the electrical connections go below but no air from there.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Binkspot on April 26, 2016, 06:16:33 PM
There should be a either a gasket or o-rings or a bunch of o-rings held together between the valve and valve block. There may be a spicket or recess where an o-ring/s should be. It is possible the o-ring blew out and no longer there.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 26, 2016, 06:58:23 PM
I will have to double check in the morning, busy manually printing as we are getting behind now.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: CGS on April 26, 2016, 09:03:36 PM
Is there a sticker on the other side of the valve body with a Norgren part number ?

If so, see if you can order the valve from M&R alone. If not try Norgren.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on April 26, 2016, 09:08:03 PM
I'll check on that in the morning, thank you.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Ross_S on April 27, 2016, 06:56:27 AM
You might want to check Grainger or McMaster Carr for parts.  Most of the M&R parts can be found there if your in a bind
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: mk162 on April 27, 2016, 08:24:24 AM
that same part went bad on ours.  See if when it's trying to index if that thing gets hot.  Was the machine slowing down over the last week?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: ScreenFoo on April 27, 2016, 11:04:05 AM
^^FWIW, oil in the right place could definitely fix that, but not if you can't get the thing moving.

I had good luck starting with something like Tri-flow to get the valve moving, and then 10W ND.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 01, 2016, 12:21:27 AM
Ok so I have been super busy and still don't have my press running and since you only get one email a day from m&r for support which gives very short answers and no detail, they didn't think I needed to replace the whole cylinder only after the m&r tech said I did, did they say I should, and the guy I talked to from m&r customer service seemed to think I didn't have to replace the whole cylinder? I got way too many conflicting ideas of what's wrong and i can't afford to just replace a $1200 part because they think that's what it is.

So before I spend $1200 I would like to know in the pic I attached I drawn an arrow pointing to the piece that does not return home after indexing, the index cylinder that pushes it to the right returns home just fine (besides the massive air leak). So what does the piece that the arrow is pointing to not returning back to home with the index cylinder have to do with a problem with the index cylinder itself?

Sorry if that doesn't make sense I'm not very versed in the proper language to use to explain it.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: 244 on May 01, 2016, 08:25:57 AM
Ok so I have been super busy and still don't have my press running and since you only get one email a day from m&r for support which gives very short answers and no detail, they didn't think I needed to replace the whole cylinder only after the m&r tech said I did, did they say I should, and the guy I talked to from m&r customer service seemed to think I didn't have to replace the whole cylinder? I got way too many conflicting ideas of what's wrong and i can't afford to just replace a $1200 part because they think that's what it is.

So before I spend $1200 I would like to know in the pic I attached I drawn an arrow pointing to the piece that does not return home after indexing, the index cylinder that pushes it to the right returns home just fine (besides the massive air leak). So what does the piece that the arrow is pointing to not returning back to home with the index cylinder have to do with a problem with the index cylinder itself?

Sorry if that doesn't make sense I'm not very versed in the proper language to use to explain it.
I assure we do more than one e-mail per day to a customer. We also give phone support way above what is required. There comes a time when you need a tech if you can't explain what is wrong with your press. If your cylinder is blowing out air you either need to replace it or rebuild it if you are capable and it's not past the point of repairing. The item you are pointing to on the right is the index stop shock and if the plunger is not coming back out it will need replaced. If you replace the shock and do not know how th adjust it you can damage it beyond repair. I suggest a tech.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 01, 2016, 09:43:30 AM
I can assure you that I have only had one email response per day from m&r service. One each morning after responding to the email in the morning. Maybe other customers get multiple email responses but not in my case.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: CGS on May 01, 2016, 09:28:45 PM
Think you need to get a tech in there to see it first hand so you know exactly what the issue is.  If as you said earlier replacing a mac valve in the past was a epic fail, anything with the drive cylinder is going to be way over your head. Even if you ordered the new cylinder,  installing it so it indexes properly at the correct distance in both directions will make you pull your hair out if you have never done it.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: mk162 on May 02, 2016, 08:02:33 AM
Just about any tech can work on that press, it's like an old Chevy or Ford pickup.  Nothing fancy, it just gets the job done and it's easy to work on.

Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 02, 2016, 01:17:43 PM
Well after taking a closer look which I failed to do previously, The bolt or rod that connects the cylinder to the carriage sheared off. I did not know these were even connected, thanks to a tsb member for reaching out to me concerning that. I thought they were two separate pieces, I do not see any coupling that may have held this together.
I attached a pic. Where do I go from here?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: mk162 on May 02, 2016, 01:26:56 PM
I would put a bit of JB weld on that and wrap it in some duct tape.

Or just get a new bolt...that is probably a better idea.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: jvanick on May 02, 2016, 02:34:23 PM
that looks like it broke between the 2 nuts that act as a jam nut....

the 'cheap' fix would be to get a 'coupler' (likely found in your local home depot as a 'threaded rod connector'), remove both nuts, thread it onto one side, and then thread it back onto the other.

the correct fix would be to replace the cylinder as that's the 'end' of the piston of the cylinder.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: 244 on May 02, 2016, 02:41:52 PM
that looks like it broke between the 2 nuts that act as a jam nut....

the 'cheap' fix would be to get a 'coupler' (likely found in your local home depot as a 'threaded rod connector'), remove both nuts, thread it onto one side, and then thread it back onto the other.

the correct fix would be to replace the cylinder as that's the 'end' of the piston of the cylinder.
You might want to go to store.mrprint.com and put in part number 2019095 and see if that is the part you need. It retails @ $90.23. There are two type so confirm with parts which one you need. If that is broke you press has to of been running pretty bad for that to happen. Still suggest a tech!! Could also be 2012021 $119.60
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: 3Deep on May 02, 2016, 03:10:08 PM
RICH say it ain't so!!!!! an M&R running bad you shut your mouth ;D, really thought if that was my press I would like to know why it did that also before buying a new part and it happen again, something out of wack or that part was due to go, an all air press does some banging know matter the brand.  Remind me of what a Harley guy told me once, that he carried a tool kit on his bike to tighten bolts cuz the dang thing rattle so much even sitting there idle.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 02, 2016, 03:19:06 PM
It has always ran a bit rough, the tech that did the install said that's the best it can get so I just ran it that way since and haven't noticed any changes in the way it's ran from the install time. I'll check out those parts.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 04, 2016, 05:37:50 PM
that looks like it broke between the 2 nuts that act as a jam nut....

the 'cheap' fix would be to get a 'coupler' (likely found in your local home depot as a 'threaded rod connector'), remove both nuts, thread it onto one side, and then thread it back onto the other.

the correct fix would be to replace the cylinder as that's the 'end' of the piston of the cylinder.
You might want to go to store.mrprint.com and put in part number 2019095 and see if that is the part you need. It retails @ $90.23. There are two type so confirm with parts which one you need. If that is broke you press has to of been running pretty bad for that to happen. Still suggest a tech!! Could also be 2012021 $119.60

M&R service said I need to order these parts:

You will need to replace
The rod end screw Part# 2009005A
Threaded rod connector part# 8050253

Which should I go for? Your suggestion or theirs?
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: 244 on May 04, 2016, 05:42:20 PM
that looks like it broke between the 2 nuts that act as a jam nut....

the 'cheap' fix would be to get a 'coupler' (likely found in your local home depot as a 'threaded rod connector'), remove both nuts, thread it onto one side, and then thread it back onto the other.

the correct fix would be to replace the cylinder as that's the 'end' of the piston of the cylinder.
You might want to go to store.mrprint.com and put in part number 2019095 and see if that is the part you need. It retails @ $90.23. There are two type so confirm with parts which one you need. If that is broke you press has to of been running pretty bad for that to happen. Still suggest a tech!! Could also be 2012021 $119.60

M&R service said I need to order these parts:

You will need to replace
The rod end screw Part# 2009005A
Threaded rod connector part# 8050253

Which should I go for? Your suggestion or theirs?
all I can say is it looked like the coupling but if you spoke to service and they identified what you need they would have more to go on than the single small photo you posted.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: jvanick on May 04, 2016, 05:44:02 PM
that looks like it broke between the 2 nuts that act as a jam nut....

the 'cheap' fix would be to get a 'coupler' (likely found in your local home depot as a 'threaded rod connector'), remove both nuts, thread it onto one side, and then thread it back onto the other.

the correct fix would be to replace the cylinder as that's the 'end' of the piston of the cylinder.
You might want to go to store.mrprint.com and put in part number 2019095 and see if that is the part you need. It retails @ $90.23. There are two type so confirm with parts which one you need. If that is broke you press has to of been running pretty bad for that to happen. Still suggest a tech!! Could also be 2012021 $119.60

M&R service said I need to order these parts:

You will need to replace
The rod end screw Part# 2009005A
Threaded rod connector part# 8050253

Which should I go for? Your suggestion or theirs?
I'd always err towards the opinions of the experts.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 04, 2016, 05:45:55 PM
Shouldn't they both be experts??

They seen the same photo as I posted here.
Title: Re: This doohickey broke I think.
Post by: CGS on May 04, 2016, 06:29:24 PM
Part# 2012021 is the rod aligner that you have there for the Gauntlet S.

If the large set screw broke like that, i'd probably replace the rod aligner too. Could be excessive wear in there caused the break in the first place...

On the parts website, click on the accessories tab and those components the parts dept mentioned will be right there.