TSB
screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Dottonedan on June 28, 2016, 10:32:37 AM
-
Typical printing procedure?
I came across a printer who has 4 flashes in his press taking up print stations. They flash after every 3 colors due to nessesety they say.
I may be wrong, so I'm asking, but shouldn't you be able to print 6-8 colors all wet on wet after the first flash (even for solid spot color printing) if you have high mesh, high tension, close off contact, sharp squeegees etc?
I know that's how we ran at Park Printing. Most of our jobs were 10-14 colors and typically only had one flash. If we did another, it was very close to the last 3 colors. Sometimes 10 colors were on wet. So I'm wondering, is this what's normal or is it normal to flash often?
If they do an 8th color, they revolve.
-
sounds more like a band-aid. I will say the newer inks from Wilflex are a bit trickier to get good opacity with, but I still only like one flash.
-
I dont have an auto, but from what I've picked up don't most places run one flash after the base, and one just before the highlight white or key black at the end, or use it to take care of thin or sticky colors late in the order?
-
if they are doing HSA, sounds about right.
-
That's a band aid for bad art, bad screens, lack of knowledge. I can a 10 color design with 1 flash on darks all day long. I prefer not to, but have done it for years. Most important thing, GOOD SEPS. My opinion.
-
Yeah HSA or LOTS of flo colors.
-
I thought HSA was darn near every color?
-
I thought HSA was darn near every color?
from what we've found, it depends on the HSA color, and the size. We try to do a flash every two colors, but have gotten away with 3.
-
We have three 12-color and one 14-color...2 flashes each. One after the base, one before the highlight white and black.
The second flash helps keep things clean and sharp with minimal effort...but with a tiny bit more effort and attention that second flash is mostly unnecessary.
We only do plastisol and WB/DC, never messed with HSA or silicone so I can't speak to that.
But...4 flashes? That's definitely a band-aid, perhaps on a compound fracture.
-
In my opinion and experience, which I've spent many years trying to lower our flash usage and printing as many colors as possible wet on wet, the more perfect you have everything the more colors you can print wet on wet. But most importantly, you can't print a single color wet on wet if your ink sucks. If you have great WOW inks then you better have high mesh/thin ink deposits, along with good tension and sharp blades. Then you better be able to keep temps inside the shop down. Then there is the art. If you have large open areas of ink, you'll be limited. If you have a process job then you usually can do as many WOW as you want/need. But larger prints, spot colors, even with great ink I think you'll find going beyond 3-4 colors will be more trouble than it's worth. We've had jobs that should have been easy WOW prints that we had to use an ink that wasn't WOW compatible and nothing else matters, you have to flash that color. I think we've done 6-7 colors in a row but a typical 7 color on darks will have 2 flashes, one for the base then one in between the other colors. High opacity inks don't usually work at all.
We've also had great inks and as the temp gets higher, around 105, the ink will then start to separate in the screen and buildup will be massive and happen really fast.
-
With most of our jobs being 4-7 colors per side we often are using 2 flashes, even a couple times a week using 3 flash when the art gets into the 8-9 range which leaves us no cool downs which gets fun. 2nd bigger press is in our future.
-
I thought HSA was darn near every color?
from what we've found, it depends on the HSA color, and the size. We try to do a flash every two colors, but have gotten away with 3.
Yup. On top of discharge we have gotten away with 5 but it was all halftones. The norm is 2 but 3 tops for HSA. But if you have an expandable oval when you expand get more flashes. This ink loves it
-
Plastisol:
Depends on coverage area and how many solid areas are in the art - you may need more than the standard 1-2 flashes. Again, it also depends on how Bright you want your print to look. The owner here likes his prints very bright and clean. This necessitates more flashes than most shops. We have a 12 and 14 color press.
Also, when using Rutlands C3 system, there are many colors that like to "Dry Up' while printing wet-on-wet (they behave as if they are flashed/dry to the touch). Rutlands solution is to make the ink "wetter" with plasticiser/detack. That does not always work.... and it stinks....
HSA - I know some shops have managed to run very very hot pallets and do a lot of wet-on-wet printing (essentially flashing the ink from the board temp). But if you have to stop for anything... you are hosed as those boards cool down.
-
We do P+F+P+F+P all the time. Rarely do we do more than 2 or 3 colors so it works for us
-
Yes we use multiple flashes..... Typically our sim process jobs all run with 2 flashes....... Solid spot color stuff with large areas we have run up to 5 flashes on our oval before(we can put 10 flashes on our oval at once)..... All depends on the job but I would not say flashing is a band aid at all.... It's a tool that helps make prints look better and we take advantage of that whenever we can. Right now we are running white shirts with 2 flashes, why? Because our print looks cleaner/better and it runs smoother. All depends on the job for us here though but we flash a good amount depending on art.
-
Style of art.
The type of ink.
Style/make-up of garment/substrate.
Giveing them the benefit of the doubt....but maybe lack of all the other things listed above.
Murphy
-
we have been running multiple flashes on our press lately a lot to avoid revolver mode....
sometimes it's just easier and faster to flash between 2 touching colors than to try to get everything perfectly dialed to run WoW.
also. anytime we're working with bright transparent colors (102C, 109C, Neons, etc), the prints look so much better when there's 2 white plates and then the top colors.
for digital camo as well as hsa work... bleed blocker black, flash, followed by white, flash followed by colors, it's nice to have that 2nd flash as well.
-
Yes we very often use 2 flashes, sometimes 3. We can print wet on wet fine but often prefer more ink to go down (for PMS matching) or have halftone work that we want to keep consistent print run to print run. Also sometimes we do glitter inks or glow in the dark, that's more flashing...
It may be a band aid with 'standard' or sim process printing but it sure helps consistency and keeping the same prints going longer without needed to wipe screens or whatnot.
This is on a 12 color. We will do up to 7 or 8 colors depending on artwork.
I think a 14 color 28 station Stryker would be pretty sweet for our next press...may get into HSA also.
-
Simple answer is yes and no. Multiple flashing is a cheat to help achieve the desired result. Other cheats would include mesh selection, ink additives, squeegee selection, print order, off contact, flood depth, flood speed, print speed, etc. The first rule of screen printing is there are exceptions to every rule. These are some the of many things I will make shop specific training videos on.
-
We run 2 a lot on process jobs, after base and usually after red because reds peak more than other colors. We will usually flash before HL white and black as well. Sometimes it sucks if we have to run it around multi print, but the results are what counts.
-
We have two automatics and each one has 2 flashes, always one after the base and then with a print with a lot of colors we put the outline/detailed screen last and flash before it.
Sometimes for speed we will have two short flashes instead of one long one.
-
Seems to be the norm, I use 2 flashes as well, always after the base and then after a Red or before a highlight or outline screen.
-
For plastisol over plastisol ub, absolutely. My preference is to flash base, cool it, then print 3 colors wow, flash, cool, repeat.
WOW plastisol printing is primarily for blending in sim/pro work in my opinion. If I could efficiently print, flash, cool, all spot colors I probably would. The only downside would be ambient heat and energy usage, which would probably be worth it have every job run 100% consistent, crisp and clean.
I agree that most shop owners, production managers and other like minded people could certainly setup most of their jobs to print all wow after the base, hell I've printed spot colors over a wet plastisol ub once, but the pre-flight work needed to get there can be extreme and, most importantly, in my area I simply do not have printers at that skill level or even workers willing to get there. I have to think about what is plausible on a daily basis v. what is possible- it's paramount that every job is setup to run simply and consistently here and consistent use of flashes helps make that happen.
Plasti over DC UB is a different story. That's almost exclusively all wow after the flashed DC base and there doesn't seem to be much of a limit on how many wow colors we can put on top, we've done up to 8 with great results.
-
I agree. I just started to 2nd guess myself and had to get reminded. It's a shame really that so much waste goes on. You can multi flash for the right reasons.
-
Discharge here (no surprise) no flash.
-
2nd flash is another tool in my toolbox. Don't need it but good to know its there for when I need it.
-
I don't care about cheating I just want to get the job done and look good for my customers, I'll cheat my butt off ;D
-
Plastisol, even if we don't really need the second flash, the Red Chili D's both stay on. We tend to like to have the whole deal flashed before pulling when we start hauling arse just to be sure a flapping shirt doesn't get jacked up. I almost wish I had a 16 color so I could have a 3rd in there. I'd use it when I could.
-
"I almost wish I had a 16 color so I could have a 3rd in there. I'd use it when I could."
;D ;D ;D
-
I don't care about cheating I just want to get the job don't and look good for my customers, I'll cheat my butt off ;D
I agree, I use 1 when possible but there are times that second flash just gives a cleaner edge when colors are right next to 1 another on nice big blocky prints. I never have to use the second flash on a simulated job though.
-
It's interesting. I see a lot of setups and they are all over the place. Doesn't seem to be a constant in where people "generally" have their flashes.
Some use two white screens up front as a base with a flash after each. Others one base, one flash, and the top white last. Others put black halftone last.
In theory, I feel like I would do this.
Base,
Flash,
Cool if able.
Up to 6-8 colors wet
Then flash all of those for any last detail.
But first, I'd consider the size of each element in the color. How much color? This keeps a leash buildup....and is why I'm not always consistent on color sequence. I may request the yellow to be printed last while darks are up front. Depends on how much yellow and if it's to be a large or small area. Also depends on if I need it to be bright or to bury it and blend more.
Not so much about light to dark or dark to light.