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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Dottonedan on August 29, 2016, 02:07:25 PM
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have any of you ever printed with the squeegee at the straight up vertical position on the auto? Anyone?
One guy I know, does this as his typical. In other words, it's a rarity for him not to be vertical. Just curious if anyone does at any time? When?
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Only if I want a reallllly thin deposit of ink.
What are his variables?
Printing over a white base?
Mesh Count? - Mesh tension?
Is the squeegee sharp?
What is his chopper pressure?
Ink type and rheology? runny Vs. thick...
Does he have to hit pantone colors?
what kind of design is he printing?
Halftones? Fashion? Bulletproof?
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we do, but only with smiling jack blades.
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Just started printing nearly vertical, probably a 6 degree angle or so. After attending Joe Clarks seminar at Mindseye it's made a positive difference in printing.
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This guy is printing a 156 underbase vertical. The whole prob with previous jobs is "not enough coverage" on base. I can see why.
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Time for a re-edumacation seminar....
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Double beveled blade?
We print with an 80-85 degree angle often. Rarely do we go below 70 degrees with anything. Using regular blades I think we'd be a little lower than 80 but I don't think we'd be below 70 very often. I don't have any regular blades here at the moment but we use the sharp edge of smiling jacks more than the beveled side and still use a high angle so I doubt if we used regular blades that we'd change a huge amount.
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We only print straight up with double beveled blade's here also and normally white inks, I would think dead ver would not give you a good ink deposit unless that's what your looking for, and then you have to use to much squeegee pressure I would think, well maybe not if you screen are super tight 30n?
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Once you start adding too much pressure you aren't printing vertical any longer as the squeegee is bent over so far.
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he must be printing with the edge of the blade or he couldn't get a crisp print or release.. it may seen straight up but the edge of the squeegee has to be doing the work. yes, with really tight screens you can get great results with min min angle
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I rarely if ever go beyond five or seven degrees anything more the screen wasn't made right or what not we don't need crazy angles to get a good crisp ink deposit.
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It's all about surface area and inertia. Double bevels are great for this. Minimum surface area = minimum pressure. This basically eliminates the inks inertia to the screen allowing it to stay on top of the shirt. The lower the SA and Inertia the less kinetic energy is needed. The less kinetic energy = less potential energy. In other words the press doesn't have to work so hard to print the shirt. There are other ways to lower the SA and inertia. Double bevels are one.
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Sonny what the hell are you talking bout ;D inertia,kinetic energy you done and went way over my head ::)
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Sonny what the hell are you talking bout ;D inertia,kinetic energy you done and went way over my head ::)
Simple physics. Say hi to your lovely office manager for me.
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I just tried printing with a almost upright squeegee recently. I have noticed for me, that I get a better clear out of my screen and the ink is sharp and clean on the shirt. I will probably be printing this way from here on out.
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I don't know. I'm going to be reserving my findings until after I give them more time or I'm shown the light. Time will tell.
Good guys. They just do things very different. Again, one of those scenarios where "they been keeping in business for 20 years" doing things the way they do. Who am I to say it's not a good way.
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Joe Clarke taught us to print nearly vertical, and even some of our trouble inks started printing better. It's even better when you have high fill, high shear inks, but it really makes a huge difference.
No offence to sonny, but for some reason we just didn't get it until Joe showed us.
I think it's a relationship with stroke speed... and there's zones where you have too slow of a stroke, a narrow sweet spot of just enough, but not too faat, and then super fast and shearing with minimal pressure and they ALL play into the equation
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Good guys. They just do things very different. Again, one of those scenarios where "they been keeping in business for 20 years" doing things the way they do. Who am I to say it's not a good way.
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You could always say diplomatically that if Henry Ford thought that way we would still be driving Model Ts. There is always a way to do what they are doing more efficiently. Doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong. I mean they are where they are after 20 years. Could they be better? Yes. Could they be worse? Yes. Your job is to show them new ways that make their job easier and the trick is to make them think it's their idea. Not easy to do, but you can do it. May I suggest some Dale Carnegie? Maybe how to win friends and influence people. Always a good read. Best of luck Dan and feel free to call if I can help.
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Only if I want a reallllly thin deposit of ink.
What are his variables?
Printing over a white base?
Mesh Count? - Mesh tension?
Is the squeegee sharp?
What is his chopper pressure?
Ink type and rheology? runny Vs. thick...
Does he have to hit pantone colors?
what kind of design is he printing?
Halftones? Fashion? Bulletproof?
I would also add, what squeegee duro?
We do it all day every day.
Sonny said it best. ( The most technical )
Murphy
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I'm not saying our way is the best way and we all know how using different techniques can still make a damn fine print, BUT, it would do everyone a great service if they set aside some time to work on perfecting their techniques. Years ago, before I'd ever spoke to some of the guys I get to talk to now, I would set aside several hours when I had an idea about changing print settings and I'd set up a job and print it every which way I could and then measure the results. That's essentially how we came to do everything the way we do it now. If there are 10 different ways to adjust the squeegee we'd print 10 different samples and pick the best looking print then use that technique until we found a better way. I know others will disagree, but I believe, technically speaking of course, take the artistic aspect out of the equation, there really is a BEST way to do everything that we do. At times, the differences between two different techniques won't be noticeable by eye, but they're still there.
Our entire production model and efficiency is predicated on using the very best technique for every single process and added up over the course of a week, month, year, it very well can be the difference between making money, breaking even or going out of business.
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And one more thing, printing with a more vertical angle will allow you to print with less pressure and faster print stroke. We all know (assuming anyone has read my rambling and long-winded posts) how I feel about those two parameters and how I believe they are 'most important' when it comes to plastisol printing. Getting the ink on top of the shirt is the key, and whatever technique (within reason) will yield a better result in that department is what needs to be done. If you can get 90% of the ink to be on the fibers and not in the fibers it changes everything.
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I'm with ya Alan. 100%.
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I most certainly have. Once again, it's on a case-by-case and screen-by-screen and ink-by-ink basis...and that's simplifying it greatly. All shops are different, your mileage may vary, etc etc etc...
Now with that out of the way. Straight up and down with a 70/90/70 was my preferred way to get White Buffalo (or any white, really) to clear on most of our half-tone filled sim process underbase plates with the least amount of pressure. It was a delicate dance between pressure and off-contact to make sure I was shearing the ink and laying it down versus smashing it through the substrate.
Sharp blade is essential. Also, once you got the job up and running it was key to also keep an eye on the pressure and reduce it as the ink got moving. Just like you would try to reduce your flash times as the platens warmed up as you went along.
This combination of attention to details gave me be brightest and softest underbase out of anyone in the shop...which ensured that every color coming afterwards was also easier to lay down with less pressure. Less pressure also equaled less registration problems...either from elongation in the direction of the stroke and perhaps any loss of tension that accompanied this or in extreme cases the shifting of the screen out of the clamps slightly (still a problem with the noobs that fix every issue with pressure.)
...and with an all pneumatic or mostly pneumatic press all of that pressure savings would eventually translate into being able to use that air for speed because it isn't being wasted on chop pressure and/or almost no squeegee lag.
Again, every shop is different, every situation and job is different and as always your mileage may vary...it wasn't a cure all...but when it was applicable (which was most of the time in our shop) it made a huge difference in production, repeat-ability, down time, quality, etc.
Stand that sumbitch up and play around with it.
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All of our squeegees are set to nearly vertical. As been said many times already it allows less pressure and faster speeds. It also clears the screens better. If we have a screen with half tones that are gaining to much we will put the squeegee at 100% make sure it is sharp and adjust speed to get the gain under control. Its easier than re-shooting, tho it is not always the answer. The other day i had to re-shoot a screen 3 times before I got it right.
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It's easy to cheat a little more opacity out of a stencil when you need it by more angle on the squeegee, but not with a dull squeegee.
The mesh and stencil should meter the ink deposit a whole lot more than the squeegee angle.
Also, FWIW, keep in mind that when you're almost vertical more force reaches the screen than when you have more angle and are losing some of that force deflecting the blade...