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General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: im_mcguire on October 03, 2016, 03:51:19 PM
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So this will be a big order for us, maybe not for others, but for us this is big.
One of my clients came to me today, they will need 5,000 polos with a full color 4 color process image on the left chest, on a dark colored polo (probably navy). Here is the kicker... They do not want screen print, and the logo will not lend itself to embroidery.
Here is my question for everyone. What would be my best option for this? Full color vinyl (roland BN-20), or DTG (Epson F-2000), or is there something else that I dont even know. This job will make me buy either piece of equipment, because this will be a recurring job, and I could use either for my business as it is.
What I dont want to do is Heatpress 5,000 times...
What do you think about this? This is a straight forward customer that I have worked with for many years, and she doesnt B.S. me when it comes to jobs.
I just want to get my ducks in a row so I know what will be the best option.
Thanks for any help.
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Woven Label appliqued on - HPI or Arrow emblem can do it.
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If you use vinyl which I wouldn't on polo's would take a lot of heat pressing hell to the naw on that, DTG even that's going to be a long process on one machine. I would get all my ducks in a row as you say and sometimes you got to know whats best, your the printer, they just know what they want which might be impossible for any one to do.
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if they discharge, you could get them a really nice image on there! We printed some navy polos and they discharged beautifully!
pierre
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Their choices are screenprinting, embroidery or heat transfer. For one, heat applying 5000 pieces may be faster than embroidery, like a Stahl's Cad-Printz, or their new one which looks and feels like a screenprint, but still heat application. But, they don't want screenprinting, so like others, I would recommend the patches...
Steve
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heat applied (vinyl or patch) would be the fastest I think. Handle the shirt one time from box to press to box and it would take about 15 seconds a shirt. Easy money...
6x8 label presses from geoknight are like $600 I think. You could buy two of these and knock out the whole job in two days with two people assuming each is doing between 2 and 3 shirts a minute, which is a pretty easy pace to keep. When I heat press polo left chests using vinyl I usually average closer to 4 a minute.
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It looks like the cat printz is the way we are looking at going. It also looks like instead of spending $5,000 and having Stahls do the print, Im going to be buying a Roland BN-20 for $8500.
Does anyone on the boards here have one, or something similar that they could share their experience with me? Likes or dislikes?
Thanks!
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Why not go bigger for the same money
https://www.signwarehouse.com/p/prismjet-vj48-plus-large-format-color-printer-valuprint-package (https://www.signwarehouse.com/p/prismjet-vj48-plus-large-format-color-printer-valuprint-package)
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Why not go bigger for the same money
https://www.signwarehouse.com/p/prismjet-vj48-plus-large-format-color-printer-valuprint-package (https://www.signwarehouse.com/p/prismjet-vj48-plus-large-format-color-printer-valuprint-package)
Do you have experience with these by chance? I know the quality of the roland first hand, and I am very happy with it. I would be more than willing to try something else, if I herd someone who has used this before.
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I do not but have been researching lately. I do know the one I linked to is a re-branded Mutoh. I believe your ink and materials cost would be much higher with the BN20.
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I don't see anyone asking the big question, why not screenprint?
I do a lot of print and cuts, but in general, only when the quantity doesn't justify screenprinting.
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I have definitely had feedback that the BN20 is not worthwhile as an investment unless you are really cramped for space. As mentioned above, you'll find a wide format machine used that'll serve you better. This is what I was advised although I never bought one in the end.
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It looks like the cat printz is the way we are looking at going. It also looks like instead of spending $5,000 and having Stahls do the print, Im going to be buying a Roland BN-20 for $8500.
Does anyone on the boards here have one, or something similar that they could share their experience with me? Likes or dislikes?
Thanks!
don't buy the 20, you'll outgrow that real fast. honestly, order the transfers from stahls and be done. Buy a printer as well but do some research first. It's not a plug-n-play set up as they make it seem... the learning curve can be tricky to print and cut on different medias...color profiles and settings can take a while to nail down...just my advice.
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Here is what I had 3 people tell me for what it is worth...
I was going to pick up a 20 at SGIA. Apparently the media for a 20" machine is more expensive because the suppliers have to cut down a full size roll of media which there is more demand for. Unless you are extremely cramped for space the 20" unit doesn't sound like a great move
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
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Ok. Sounds like I am going to pass on the BN-20 per your guys recommendation. The reasoning makes sense.
Now I guess I need to do a bit of research on what a quality machine will be for the 10k range...
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54" or larger to get the best choices in media. that fella up in the shout box can help with the emblems if needed.
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54" or larger to get the best choices in media.
+1
We like the Solutions Opaque from Imprintables. Nice hand and prints well.
If you go the way of the new printer be ready, because you just became a sign shop whether you like it or not. :-)
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those PrisimJet units are only printers.. you have to transfer the material to a cutter in order to cut it.
not sure I'd want to go through the hassle of re-registering the material each time.
for 5000 pieces, the weeding alone would cause me to want to shoot myself in the head.
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Here is what I had 3 people tell me for what it is worth...
I was going to pick up a 20 at SGIA. Apparently the media for a 20" machine is more expensive because the suppliers have to cut down a full size roll of media which there is more demand for. Unless you are extremely cramped for space the 20" unit doesn't sound like a great move
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I had also heard about the 20" roll problem last year when we were considering one of the BN-20 as well...
Steve
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Unless you want to start printing on the machine A LOT, I would just outsource these. While it would be awesome to own a solvent or latex printer, for me it doesnt make sense because the thing would be idle far too often. Those machine, like DTG, want to be used every day or so or else you will end up with clogs and issues down the road (based on everything I have read).
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There is a lot of media available for the BN-20. It's more expensive but the bigger issue is that it is SLOW as hell. I owned one and it did pay for itself but I sold it and bought a Roland VS-300i. I wish I'd have bought the 540 or 640. Speed and lower priced media makes up the difference pretty quickly.
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Everything I am reading makes me want to pass on this order all together. If I order through stahls it will be about $5,200 just for the transfers to be made. If I buy a Roland, I still have to weed it after it "slowly" prints then cuts them. Then I still have to press them.
We might be looking at giving the client "CRAZY" pricing to kind of make them lean toward screen printing. But who knows, I have had clents accept my "CRAZY" pricing before...
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I recall you said it was full colour, but would plastisol transfers be an option? Much faster to press and cheaper to buy at that quantity than printed vinyl...
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I'm confused which is normal, but somehow some way your still going to have to put ink on those shirts whether it's direct plastisol of inkjet, heat press etc if embroidery is out, so whats the stick about not printing then on press, is it the make of the shirt is pique Polo's and pique is not nice to screen print.
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Looks like it will be pique polos. And it will be a 4 color image with a underbase at a 4" wide by 2 1/2" tall image. The client is very picky about it being a damn near perfect.
Expectations vs Reality is something I might have to instill in their head...
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past experience, heat transfers don't really look that great on pique knit. but that's my opinion. Sounds like this customer knows just enough to be dangerous. Time for some schooling on the processes.
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Maybe PVC labels?
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Do they have a previous shirt to use as reference? We're they happy with it? Might help narrow things down.
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i find direct printing on piques can be troubling. I'd say throw out the high price, order a random sample to test the transfer for look and then order a small order of the transfers to get you started.
That way you've billed your high price, and you've gotten approval every step of the way.
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1. If it's the pique that is getting on the way of a nice screen print, point out that pique polos are really meant for embroidery, and since that's not feasible, perhaps they need to re-think the garment itself. As I mention when I direct folks to the catalog on my website, not everything is appropriate for the same decorating processes.
2. Though I hate direct screening onto pique, it always ends up better than I thought it would, but, of course, I'm generally just printing a one or a few spot colors of simple logos.
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dont get the tramsfers from stahls. contact a wholesale source (sign shop or someone from the boards) and the pricing will be much, much lower. My local guy charges by square inch vs per unit, and on something like this at that quantity I think I would be spending like $15 cents per transfer or so...
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The "upside" of paying Stahls more money, is they have been doing this for decades and have invested a considerable amount into research and development and equipment....IMO having used dozens of sources over the years, Stahls is the best there and it does cost you....But at the end of the day the transfers are just a small part of the cost....It is the garments that are the big ticket item and not worth risk in trying to save a few $s....