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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Shanarchy on October 28, 2016, 09:16:20 AM
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I'm on my third batch of ICC Legacy ink. So far I have been loving it, prints nice, flashes fast, low bleed, and priced right.
I've been struggling since opening my latest pail. It is not clearing the screen, I've tried altering my settings a little figuring this batch may be a little off. But the only way it's clearing is with a 70/90/70 blade at 5 degrees, set low and with a crazy amount of pressure, and double stroking. I even added a little Synergy magic to it and it doesn't seem to help. It does not perform even close to the last two pails I used.
The ink is sticking together and climbing the squeegee like nothing I've ever seen before. These pictures attached are after I removed the flood bar and cleared all the ink out and then did two prints (4 print strokes). I have a feeling this is bad ink. Can I do anything to make this usable? Curable reducer? Soft hand clear? Call and complain this is defective?
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Have Temps in your shop dropped recently? I'm having to mix and warm my whites a little more starting this week, and it's still in the 80s midday, but those colder nights are definitely affecting the ink.
Otherwise, and I hate to straight up bash a company, I would just say my experience with ICC inks has never been great compared to the other major players. I wasn't impressed at all with the sample of legacy white I tried a while back, and I know I have seen others discuss consistency issues with it on the boards.
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Definitely contact International Coatings. They will need the lot number.
800-423-4103
562-926-9486
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summer time.. livins easy.
it got hot in a truck or warehouse and the plasticizer swelled.
Return it and ask for a new one.
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summer time.. livins easy.
it got hot in a truck or warehouse and the plasticizer swelled.
Return it and ask for a new one.
This was my guess. I was hoping for confirmation before calling and sounding crazy. Should I call the distributor I bought it from, or ICC direct?
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summer time.. livins easy.
it got hot in a truck or warehouse and the plasticizer swelled.
Return it and ask for a new one.
This was my guess. I was hoping for confirmation before calling and sounding crazy. Should I call the distributor I bought it from, or ICC direct?
call the distributor first
pierre
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Next question, is there a way to modify this to make it at all usable until I get new ink here? I'm guessing no.
Is this bad to print with? I'm sure it will properly cure, but will this cause any adhesion problems to the garment?
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Next question, is there a way to modify this to make it at all usable until I get new ink here? I'm guessing no.
Is this bad to print with? I'm sure it will properly cure, but will this cause any adhesion problems to the garment?
issues you encounter will depend on the cause of the problem. If you really need to use it, test it (washing).
pierre
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Some cureable reducer might help
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It's best to just put it aside.
When the plasticizer starts to swell, it absorbs some of the pigment and this is what makes it's gummy and climb the squeegee.
It's also best to take white ink from a base screen and toss it rather than but it back in a 'virgin' bucket of white when the run is done.
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FYI, we tried Legacy and thought is was garbage. Turns out it's either inconsistently produced or like others mentioned it doesn't store well. After seeing that half of the printers in another thread on here were seeing "good" characteristics and half were seeing "bad" we had our distro send another bucket and it was fantastic. The first sample we got had all the terrible characteristics you are describing. Were it not for this consistency problem we would probably run this ink in our shop much more often.
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The plasticisers are being swallowed up by the resins.
Think of a desert. The resins are thirsty when it gets hot and they drink the plasticisers.
When this occurs. There is no GOOD way to fix the ink. You can add a lot of curable reducer and maybe some plasticiser.... but you will loose opacity - you will loose flash parameters - you will only gain SOME printability.
Truthfully, your best step is to set the ink aside and wait for a replacement bucket.
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FYI, we tried Legacy and thought is was garbage. Turns out it's either inconsistently produced or like others mentioned it doesn't store well. After seeing that half of the printers in another thread on here were seeing "good" characteristics and half were seeing "bad" we had our distro send another bucket and it was fantastic. The first sample we got had all the terrible characteristics you are describing. Were it not for this consistency problem we would probably run this ink in our shop much more often.
Chris, have Mark send you a gallon of the low bleed lava. We helped tweak on this formula for a couple months prior to them finalizing it. We used to run quick white, then switched to legacy as most of the time it performed really well until we had batch issues. But the low bleed lava I feel is a better version of the best batches of legacy with the consistency that wilflex is known for. We've gone through about 40 gallons of low bleed in the last few weeks and its been working really good here. We can run the stroke speed from 8-10(full speed) and the ink drops through the mesh nicely. If you like the good batches of legacy and have had good luck with quick white then the low bleed lava should be a great option for you. I have been getting lots of emails/texts from shops that are really digging it.
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Hey Danny and sorry for thread derail Shanarchy:
Do you think the Lava Lo has more/less/same bleed resist as the quick? That's our only current issue with quick, from that other thread I posted on a "beefier" lo bleed white.
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Not a thread derail at all. I was actually wondering what Danny was running. I just checked the pricing up the Lava, pretty much the same as the ICC Legacy. My next question was going to be how the bleed resistance was.
I spoke to the distributor today, they were really good about it and asked for the batch number and if I could send a picture of the issue. They will be contacted ICC and getting back to me. I'll keep everyone posted.
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That's good news for me as we use Wilflex. Gonna have to get a bucket or 5 and check this stuff out.
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We just switched over from Legacy and have gone through a couple gallons of the Lava Lo bleed now.
Printing manually, Lava is creamier and easier to print and I think is slightly nicer finished print. The opacity may be just a hair less then Legacy, but we can probably fine tune our process a bit more to help that.
We did see a bit of bleeding recently on a Navy AA 50/50 blend shirt. But other than that it's been fine on blends
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The plasticisers are being swallowed up by the resins.
Think of a desert. The resins are thirsty when it gets hot and they drink the plasticisers.
When this occurs. There is no GOOD way to fix the ink. You can add a lot of curable reducer and maybe some plasticiser.... but you will loose opacity - you will loose flash parameters - you will only gain SOME printability.
Truthfully, your best step is to set the ink aside and wait for a replacement bucket.
Can this happen during transport or storage at the warehouse of the likes of FedEx and UPS? And are whites more prone to this then any other color? I noticed this happening mainly with white inks.
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Rockers:
YES.
You will find it happening in all fast flash products, to one degree or another.
But the fast flash whites are most susceptible.
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^^^^ What Colin said.
The reason whites are more susceptible is primarily twofold: One, reduction of flash (gel) temperature using hot plasticizers. Two: Much higher solids content (TIO2 and fillers in addition to the PVC resin content).
Once the product starts to increase in viscosity due to the resins swelling and absorbing plasticizer, it is an irreversible process.
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To avoid this, is there a better time in the year to order our white ink? Like try to stock up and avoid ordering in June-July-Aug?
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So, what temperature is the "danger zone" for ink? This thread has me wondering about our own ink storage... in Florida, no a/c in the shop. At what point does ambient heat start altering the desired ink chemistry?
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To avoid this, is there a better time in the year to order our white ink? Like try to stock up and avoid ordering in June-July-Aug?
Really all depends upon where you are located and shipping times/transit from your supplier. I know a few years ago, there was a rather significant heat wave in Texas. Every ink manufacturer had issues with inks (whites in particular) turning into boat anchors. The back of the little brown trucks were probably 130F+. So if you are in one of these areas, may not be a bad idea. Just store your inks in a climate controlled environment.
So, what temperature is the "danger zone" for ink? This thread has me wondering about our own ink storage... in Florida, no a/c in the shop. At what point does ambient heat start altering the desired ink chemistry?
Great question with no easy absolute answer. Here's the deal, the lower the gel point, the lower the resins begin to absorb the plasticizer and swell. So a 180F gel point may begin the process at 110F (just spit balling here.). I did a test a few years back when I worked at Wilflex: Took a gallon of white ink on a hot summer day; put in in my trunk in the morning. At 1pm, the ambient temp was 95F. The AIR temp in my trunk was like 120. The bucket temp was 140ish. Ink was bad....... That quick.
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FYI, we tried Legacy and thought is was garbage. Turns out it's either inconsistently produced or like others mentioned it doesn't store well. After seeing that half of the printers in another thread on here were seeing "good" characteristics and half were seeing "bad" we had our distro send another bucket and it was fantastic. The first sample we got had all the terrible characteristics you are describing. Were it not for this consistency problem we would probably run this ink in our shop much more often.
Chris, have Mark send you a gallon of the low bleed lava. We helped tweak on this formula for a couple months prior to them finalizing it. We used to run quick white, then switched to legacy as most of the time it performed really well until we had batch issues. But the low bleed lava I feel is a better version of the best batches of legacy with the consistency that wilflex is known for. We've gone through about 40 gallons of low bleed in the last few weeks and its been working really good here. We can run the stroke speed from 8-10(full speed) and the ink drops through the mesh nicely. If you like the good batches of legacy and have had good luck with quick white then the low bleed lava should be a great option for you. I have been getting lots of emails/texts from shops that are really digging it.
Danny who makes the low bleed lava?
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looks like a wilflex brand with ryonet packaging..
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Its a special Formula Wilfex is making just for Ryonet.
I am looking forward to giving its final form a try.
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looks like a wilflex brand with ryonet packaging..
thanks
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So, what temperature is the "danger zone" for ink? This thread has me wondering about our own ink storage... in Florida, no a/c in the shop. At what point does ambient heat start altering the desired ink chemistry?
We're in South Florida and routinely have white ink harden up on us during the summer. This year it was a few One Stroke varieties as well as Synergy white. Took us a bit to figure out what was going on, but starting next year we'll be storing our pricey white ink in the air conditioned part of the shop throughout the summer months. A good rule of thumb heat-wise is when it starts getting pretty uncomfortable for you, its probably getting uncomfortable for the ink as well.
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So, what temperature is the "danger zone" for ink? This thread has me wondering about our own ink storage... in Florida, no a/c in the shop. At what point does ambient heat start altering the desired ink chemistry?
We're in South Florida and routinely have white ink harden up on us during the summer. This year it was a few One Stroke varieties as well as Synergy white. Took us a bit to figure out what was going on, but starting next year we'll be storing our pricey white ink in the air conditioned part of the shop throughout the summer months. A good rule of thumb heat-wise is when it starts getting pretty uncomfortable for you, its probably getting uncomfortable for the ink as well.
Thanks! We haven't had an obvious problem yet. But we've just been getting into low temp & fast flash inks recently, and this was our worst summer so far. After surface temp of everything in the shop was hitting 108 degrees, we moved to working nights just to avoid heat stroke! We'll probably have to change storage for our specialty ink, too... if we don't add a/c to the shop.