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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: inkman996 on November 18, 2016, 11:13:26 AM
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Yea nuts 80K shirts front and back, fortunately one color both sides. This is for a huge retail business and there will be a lot following this order. But here is the problem we are having. The shirts are custom made obviously, they are a really fine ring spun cotton. The problem is they do not stick well at all, one coat of water base and it lasts two rounds tops. Tried cspray adhesives and no change, the finish the shirts are leaving on the platens is different than normal, its a really smooth finish. No matter what we do we are fighting adhesion issues non stop. We are running two shifts non stop and the real kicker is we have to print the fronts on their really tiny custom pockets. I bought double pocket pallettes from Action (actualy koozie because of pocket size) But my fear is with tack issues these shirts are not going to hang on to the pallettes well.
Before anyone pipes up yes we can handle the work load, we have target amounts to make each week no problems there, man power is no problem. We have truck height dock so everything gets boxed and palatalized and goes right off the dock into a truck. Finishing is done elsewhere.
So my question is to the guys that handle difficult shirts like these is there any tricks for good tack? A different tack maybe? We use Tekmars TB10 and we tried both mist and web sprays, all with the same results. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
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Have you tried real Tex-Tac? We got some in and it's so much better than everything else we've tried.
Or the dreaded spray glue.
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First, congratulations.
Second, are you certain on the fabric content? What's on the label isn't always what's in the bag so to speak.
And no weird finishing to them?
Either way I suppose the problem is getting them stuck. When we have issues (Bella viscose comes to mind) we
do a couple things. First is CCI Pro-Bond straight, no water. Flash and second coat. On the really really bad stuff
we will then use a spray mist on top of that.
For a pocket type print with such little real estate to hang on to I'd put the screen in the first head as opposed to the last.
Good luck!
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uncut textac will make just about anything stick unless it has excessive fuzz that will immediately negate the extra tack (think CC or hoodies). That has worked well for all the thin and shitty materials I have printed on. Otherwise, web spray is usually my fix and on a pocket you would need literally just one quick burst in the center.
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Are you doing a quick flash? I had this issue with a 10K order 1 color. I thought i could get away with 1 hit and off, but the flash actually helped the shirt stick longer. 15-200 shirts then reapply...
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ZSounds like I need to get some Tex-Tac! To answer question yes we have the flash set low just enough to keep the pallettes warm and hopefully make the tac last longer.
100% on the fabric content 100% cotton. Its the way the material is made thats different, it is really hard to explain but they have a very fine lint that covers everything, think talcum powder. It completely destroys the tack one or two times around, as bad if not worse than fleece.
New pallettes just arrived from Action, they have 3 inch cut outs and the pockets fit on just snug enough tack should actually not be a problem what so ever.
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If the issue is lint I doubt the textac is going to fix it actually. The extra stickiness will just mean it gets more linty. For efficiency during production I think a web tac is going to be your best bet in that case. I use that on long runs of the worst comfort colors since they do the same fine lint horseshit. By the end of a run of 300 or so shirts (one hit white on one station manually) I can have a good 1/8 or more of solid lint and tac buildup, but it will still stick with another spray. That would be my suggestion.
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we cut our textac 50/50 and it works great on Comfort Colors. We don't make it as far as we normally do, but it's a huge improvement.
You might end up going with spray glue I hate to say.
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I have tried 25% 50% 75% and uncut and on the worst CC I cant get past about 6 or 8 shirts per pallet without the tac just straight up failing to hold the shirt in place (50% seems to be the best though usually). Not that big of a deal on lights with thinner dark inks and no base, but laying down a white will cause the shirt to lift and shift. Plus the way the lint pills up instead of sticking together like gildan/anvil/bella/next level lint makes a huge mess when refreshing the boards. Quicker and cleaner to just web tac and toss the pallet tape at the end, at least for me.
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I have seen a piece of equipment in videos where the shirts are placed in a vacuum box between two brushes to do what I assume is remove the lint. It would add another piece of equipment and person, but sounds like it could be worth it. I just can't seem to track the damn thing down.
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I ordered up some Tex Tac and several different types of sprays. If the spray works well I want to set up a hanging spring system where I can velcro a can of spray onto a cord coming down right by the control panel that way the loader or unloader can quickly apply some spray, anyone have any idea where to find the hardware for this type of thing?
BTW did I ever mention how you really find out how good your employees are when they are forced to work harder than they ever thought t-shirt printing could be? Already had to have an attitude talk with our main guy last night, today every time I step away and come back press is stopped for some reason or another, its driving me mad to say the least.
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I ordered up some Tex Tac and several different types of sprays. If the spray works well I want to set up a hanging spring system where I can velcro a can of spray onto a cord coming down right by the control panel that way the loader or unloader can quickly apply some spray, anyone have any idea where to find the hardware for this type of thing?
BTW did I ever mention how you really find out how good your employees are when they are forced to work harder than they ever thought t-shirt printing could be? Already had to have an attitude talk with our main guy last night, today every time I step away and come back press is stopped for some reason or another, its driving me mad to say the least.
Like I often remind my wife when she claims that I am driving her crazy, "past behavior indicates that this would more accurately be described as a short walk, and not a drive". I then, of course, duck.
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I ordered up some Tex Tac and several different types of sprays. If the spray works well I want to set up a hanging spring system where I can velcro a can of spray onto a cord coming down right by the control panel that way the loader or unloader can quickly apply some spray, anyone have any idea where to find the hardware for this type of thing?
BTW did I ever mention how you really find out how good your employees are when they are forced to work harder than they ever thought t-shirt printing could be? Already had to have an attitude talk with our main guy last night, today every time I step away and come back press is stopped for some reason or another, its driving me mad to say the least.
Like I often remind my wife when she claims that I am driving her crazy, "past behavior indicates that this would more accurately be described as a short walk, and not a drive". I then, of course, duck.
Good one!
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I'm not sure it was mentioned but Tex-Tac makes a wb adhesie for poly. At 100% it's like a velco mat for cotton shirts. We have pulled pallet tape off with that stuff.
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CCI Top Bond WB adhesive stright no water is supper tacky and will probably be your best bet. I also second using a flash to keep the pallets and adhesive warm. I doubt these will be an ultimate fix but it should allow you to go longer without re-tacking. I've done runs 10k plus on similar problem shirts and these were things that helped us. Good Luck
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The shirts might have been treated after dyeing, possibly silicone, this is possibly the reason they are not sticking to the pallet, if can also create a problem with the print holding so make sure you do some serious wash tests after printing.
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Also, Enzyme wash....
We have been fighting that here for a few years. We get in Reallllllly nice ringspun shirts and have to scrub after 150 shirts.
No silicon on the shirts - but they go through an Enzyme wash for softness.
The adhesive companies hate them ;)
Spray glue is the only thing that consistently holds them down.... mostly.....
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ZSounds like I need to get some Tex-Tac! To answer question yes we have the flash set low just enough to keep the pallettes warm and hopefully make the tac last longer.
100% on the fabric content 100% cotton. Its the way the material is made thats different, it is really hard to explain but they have a very fine lint that covers everything, think talcum powder. It completely destroys the tack one or two times around, as bad if not worse than fleece.
New pallettes just arrived from Action, they have 3 inch cut outs and the pockets fit on just snug enough tack should actually not be a problem what so ever.
Be aware there are two Tex Tac. Tex Tac and Tex Tac 2 for fleece printing. Might be a good idea to get both.
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This is making me think of one of my press daydreams, where we have some sort of floor-buffing machine with a water pump/sprayer on the side mounted into one of the heads with a flash afterward.
I think it has something to do with having sore shoulders.
+1 the textac though, have some problem orders that it's the only thing that works, if anything.
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try cammie web spray tac
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bet there made in Bangladesh, we use albatross web spray with these , the ones we have done almost have a dust like lint that builds up on the platens and everything else, basically glue a lot with these and make sure platens are warm before starting. They are nice and fine and print smooth but even though the ones we did were 100% cotton we cured at a lower temp closer to what we do 50/50 I noticed that there was a bit of dye migration that happened later.
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bitof an update, we got in some Chromalines Textac and so far it is working far better than the Tekmar TB10, even so the shirts still need a constant reglue.
We've moved on to pockets, fortunately they do not need adhesive. So anyone ever print pockets 4 up? Damn its fast!
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Those are basically the same platens used for sock bottom tread (yes there still is a durable closed cell "sock puff" ink that holds up to abrasion) Think of snowflake patterns etc for Christmas or herringbone for non holiday. They are still done in the millions although probably not domestically. Typically two loaders with a fast flash and one unloader. Knuckle busters at first for sure.
Thread officially derailed but can't talk about much else.
tp
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A popular Christmas gift I bet.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41MC2MYBHRL.jpg)
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You got it Andy......that was a quick search!
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Lots of Hospitals use those for patients, I'm guessing to help fro slipping on those floors
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A popular Christmas gift I bet.
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41MC2MYBHRL.jpg)
My old company (in the 80's) did a ton of these for ski country, great winter work...
Steve