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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: alan802 on December 05, 2016, 06:05:56 PM
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This is mostly a rhetorical question in terms of my own personal feelings, but I'd love to hear some opinions on which type of air compressor you guys would choose to run your new press. Rotary screw or piston. I've found a few rotary units that will power both machines, a 10hp that puts out 35-38 CFM. Then there is a 10hp piston with 35 CFM for under $3K that would also do the job. The rotary 10hp is around $5,200.
Let me hear some opinions, and maybe this thread will help make up some minds that may not know. Anyone still prefer the piston compressors or is the extra cost of the rotary units really worth it? I'd like to not hear a compressor going off every 15 minutes during a long run but the decibel level isn't that big of a deal to me personally.
I want to get a compressor that will power both autos, but I understand the argument for each press to have it's own air supply in case a compressor goes down. I figure that if one does go down I can simply rent one from the equipment dealer down the road for a few hundred dollars/day and not worry about upkeep on 2 air compressors.
If money was tight, would you still stick with a piston unit or would you do what it takes to buy the rotary one? For what it's worth, I'm the one wanting to get the rotary screw and I'm in the minority with the others that have weighed in on the decision. In the end, I don't really feel like arguing with anyone over a damn air compressor since I'm getting a new G3 to run the show with but I still would love to hear what others have to say about it.
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Dude, i specs out alot higher than you would believe. We've accidentally forgot to turn the power on to our compressor and printed over 100 shirts before I noticed something sounded a little odd lol. We bout a 20 hp BOGE screw compressor for it and our DB. The little DB eats way more of the air when it's on.
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I went with a Chicago Pneumatic QRS 15hp ultimately. Fit the budget, fills the need and has been 100% reliable for us although I went with the brand partially due to local service just in case. 47cfm @ 150psi.
Done over I would have got a 20hp or higher but with a rotary screw you can run constant. When we move I'll pair it up with a better air delivery system and maybe a secondary/reserve tank. Old air presses really like to gulp air v. steady draw and that's hard for a constant running compressor to keep up with without a high capacity delivery and storage system in place.
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Almost got a rotary screw and the compressor guy recommended i get a piston as they do not require extensive yearly maintenance. We got an 80 gallon tank. It is about 15 feet from the press. Every time it kicks on I ask myself why did I not get a rotary screw.
So, unless your compressor is going to be far away and in another room, I would never get a piston again.
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we went with an atlas copco VSD rotary screw. We have two reserve tanks, and it feeds into a really cool ultra thin/lite pipe system. It's pretty quiet, and we have a normal Ingersoll rand for a back up.
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Another vote for Rotary.
Just bought an all-in-one 10hp/120gal quincy with the onboard air dryer myself as I couldn't take the headaches of a piston beating my brain in every time it comes on.
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Also, my piston compressor is voice activated. As in it will only come on as soon as I start to talk to someone. ::)
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Also, my piston compressor is voice activated. As in it will only come on as soon as I start to talk to someone. ::)
That is classic! :D
I honestly don't know how you guys do it that have compressors by your "general areas". We have ours in our basement(Mike, Alan, Eric, and anyone else down south, that is a structure built in the ground under your main floor... :P ) the only time you hear it is when it initially kicks on and vibrates the conduit feeding it!
+1 for basements! First time I've been able to say that! ;D
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Rotary VANE, low maintenance high price, years of service.
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Our Rotary is 40 inches from our auto, you cant even hear it really. Thats all the argument one needs for those IMO.
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we have both, screw for main and piston as back up. Not a chance I would even consider a piston. You are spending some serious coin on a new press, the difference between a screw and piston is peanuts. Don't cheap out now. get the press set up of your dreams. What are we talking in difference, 2-3k?
I had a tech come in and go over our unit, new filters, oil and he said we don't run it enough. If we ran it every hour we were open, we still wouldn't come close to the operating usage of the screw. He actually recommended leaving it on over night a few days a week to get hot and dissipate the moisture. It'll be another 2 years before we service it again due to our low hour count.
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Yesterday I sent an email out to the others with about a dozen different options, all 10hp and bigger. I got an email back with a link to the one we are supposedly getting....unbelievable. We're gonna pay more for a 7.5hp piston that is WAY underpowered, it's the exact same compressor we have on the RPM and it comes on often, is loud as well. I found options that were cheaper yet more powerful and also explained why we needed a certain CFM and the main differences between piston and rotary. Guess I wasted my time because either nobody read it or they did and feel like I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Yesterday I sent an email out to the others with about a dozen different options, all 10hp and bigger. I got an email back with a link to the one we are supposedly getting....unbelievable. We're gonna pay more for a 7.5hp piston that is WAY underpowered, it's the exact same compressor we have on the RPM and it comes on often, is loud as well. I found options that were cheaper yet more powerful and also explained why we needed a certain CFM and the main differences between piston and rotary. Guess I wasted my time because either nobody read it or they did and feel like I don't know what I'm talking about.
Vote them off the island.
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rotary screw for sure , have bought 3 piston types over the years , our last move is a open area shop and I didn't feel like taking up space with a compressor room, bought a KAESER and put it in the back , makes a humming sound when running but doesn't make it impossible to talk on the phone, the biggest difference I have seen is that my air Sportsman doesn't loose speed as the tank drains like my old piston styles , also the air is way cleaner and dryer. I continually check drain legs at each air point and have had No water in any for over a year now.
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We have an Atlas Copco rotary screw. Wouldn't have anything else...
Matt
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Hmmm good post here, if my old piston cup goes out I might get a rotary screw, not ever using the screw type compressor I might not know what I'm missing, then there is the space problem I might have or can this type compressor sit outside? which mine is now
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Also, my piston compressor is voice activated. As in it will only come on as soon as I start to talk to someone. ::)
That is classic! :D
I honestly don't know how you guys do it that have compressors by your "general areas". We have ours in our basement(Mike, Alan, Eric, and anyone else down south, that is a structure built in the ground under your main floor... :P ) the only time you hear it is when it initially kicks on and vibrates the conduit feeding it!
+1 for basements! First time I've been able to say that! ;D
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i've played live music in many of these fabled basements.
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Just like Homer.. rotary for primary, piston for back up.
both tanks are piped together, so the rotary turns on a few times
everyday. Super quiet...
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$400.00 for an annual service on our 20HP BOGE Screw. I think that is pretty minimal outlay for "almost silent" and cleaner, cooler air compressor. I still have my two piston compressors, they are connected and their tanks used for air storage, and in an emergency can be turned on, but this BOGE unit is built to run nonstop, even though it doesn't have to do that here unless we run our DB and the GT3 at the same time. I have a million air leaks in the old DB so it draws a lot more air than it needs, gotta get that part fixed. You won't regret going with a "good" quality screw compressor, that is for sure! What I love about the BOGE, it's a family owned corporation, German engineered, but locally stocked parts for everything in Atlanta. And we went through a compressor contractor in Tampa so, if we needed support, its' there. He's ironically here right now doing the annual service ;D
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for anybody still looking, we bought this as a backup to our rotary Atlas Copco. It is 10HP, 4 cylinder beast. Don't let the picture fool you, the thing is really BIG. It is rated at 35 FFM so should handle multiple presses without much of an issue. Best part is, it was $1,900 delivered!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chicago-Pneumatic-Air-compressor-10-hp-3-ph-two-stage-Cast-iron-NEW-other-/332048082780? (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chicago-Pneumatic-Air-compressor-10-hp-3-ph-two-stage-Cast-iron-NEW-other-/332048082780?)
pierre
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Rotary VANE, low maintenance high price, years of service.
This is what we run. 50,000 hours of run time before you have to touch the internals unlike a traditional rotary screw. Picked mine up used for 3500.00 5 years ago and its been flawless. I had one breaker go out in it a couple of years ago and it just runs. Not as quiet as some of the IR or others but it is way quieter than a piston.
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If it's in the shop near where people work - rotary screw / vane.
Look at the used marked, I got a 15hp Chicago Pneumatic for $3800 that had less than 5K hours on it a few years ago.
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We have a Atlas Copco, expensive but worth the money. Also very quite. We run two automatics on it.
Not worth spending a lot on a press and saving on a compressor.
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We have a Atlas Copco, expensive but worth the money. Also very quite. We run two automatics on it.
Not worth spending a lot on a press and saving on a compressor.
Amen to that brother!
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Got a chance to pick up a used rotary for CHEAP, but I'm dreading having to go discuss it with the others. Even though it's damn near free, this is the exact type of thing that the other decision makers here can't fathom for some reason. They have a hard time believing that someone is willing to do us a HUGE favor and that I've been able to establish some really meaningful relationships within the industry. I'm going to take a break from running the press, go let them know the awesome option we have and hope for the best.
And, I had strep throat most of last week, took the antibiotics for 3 days then stopped, like a damn idiot, and now it's back. There isn't much worse than running a press for a 900 piece job with a 102.5 fever. Walking around with a mask and latex gloves on, thank goodness it's cold out here.
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Hey Alan, just for giggles, we wanted to see something yesterday, we tuned the compressor off, after it filled 1 of our 80 gallon tanks. Ran a 4 color design for 237 shirts before I went back over and turned it back on. We could have gone more, but when I noticed the air cylinders moving a little slower, I didn't want to push it. That press literally sips air.
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That's the way to go though Alan.
Now just have both wired up and piped properly to have the backup ready to go whenever needed.
We originally had a 7.5hp recipricating, now the 15hp rotary screw, both wired up separately but piped to the air ready to go.
As for using the extra tank - I don't think I can do that with our setup because it would go the wrong way through a second dryer - does that matter? The 15hp we run every day has a built in dryer, the 7.5hp Champion has a separate dryer after the tank setup.
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Our air rig. The main day to day is the blue ;D BOGE 20 HP rotary screw compressor, then prevost air lined to our old IR to use it's tank for storage, and then jumping from that to the old US General to use it's tank. Both of those units are powered up in case we need to use them for back up, then to a 240cfm Boge chiller, then we have the prevost air line ring that goes as a complete loop around the roof deck with several drops in place for future use, that pipe is really nice!! Expensive, but nice! It's a nice solid system, we never worry about air lol.
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Very cool setup, no need for a tank with the rotary you are set with those 2 tanks!
I'm thinking the future install will be the chiller AFTER the integrated chiller on the rotary screw compressor after the Champion 7.5hp rotary, kinda like your setup. This inline setup makes a lot of sense, I'm not sure how bad / not possible it is to send the air the wrong way through the chiller?
That is if it's off since not needed - just used to go to a tank behind it.
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Compressor - wet receiver - chiller - dry receiver - tee - valve - filter - valve - tee - out
| |
valve - filter - valve --------
From an engineer friend that designs these systems for bio-pharmaceutical labs.
FWIW we have a 7.5hp Kaeser and a 25hp Quincy we bought when we got our new press.
Both are hooked up but we run the Kaeser for energy/noise savings and have the Quincy
in case our demand is ever too much for it. Hasn't happened yet.
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What is a wet receiver and dry receiver?
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Very cool setup, no need for a tank with the rotary you are set with those 2 tanks!
I'm thinking the future install will be the chiller AFTER the integrated chiller on the rotary screw compressor after the Champion 7.5hp rotary, kinda like your setup. This inline setup makes a lot of sense, I'm not sure how bad / not possible it is to send the air the wrong way through the chiller?
That is if it's off since not needed - just used to go to a tank behind it.
Thanks, yeah luckily we met this guy through our local M&R Tech out of Tampa, he does a lot of super big print shops and automotive centers. You can see all kinds of valves, bypasses ect behind the chiller, a couple of filters and such, very clean, cold air system. Like you said, with that compressor, there is no reason for storage tanks, but since we already had them, it made sense to hook them in for emergency back up and extra air storage. It's amazing how fast that Boge unit will fill the system, it actually runs more in idle cycle than pumping air lol. Very nice units built to run non stop. There is a tire place near us that does industrial tire stuff, heavy equipment, big rigs ect. They have the same set up, 10 years, not a problem.
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What is a wet receiver and dry receiver?
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Storage tanks essentially.
When air comes out of a compressor it's warm/hot. Warm air can hold more moisture.
Ideally you let that air cool to ambient (wet receiver) before going through the chiller. Not doing so
will make your chiller work harder/less efficient. In fact you want to put your inlet to the wet receiver up high
and the outlet lower as the air will stratify in the tank and you can draw off the cooler air.
It's amazing the things you learn putting together a textile printing facility.
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What is a wet receiver and dry receiver?
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Storage tanks essentially.
When air comes out of a compressor it's warm/hot. Warm air can hold more moisture.
Ideally you let that air cool to ambient (wet receiver) before going through the chiller. Not doing so
will make your chiller work harder/less efficient. In fact you want to put your inlet to the wet receiver up high
and the outlet lower as the air will stratify in the tank and you can draw off the cooler air.
It's amazing the things you learn putting together a textile printing facility.
I have seen diagrams in the past where people put up a zigzag pipe run to help trap moisture after the compressor. Would you do this before the "wet receiver"?
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we have two coalescent filters, one before the chiller, one after the chiller, by the time the air goes through the two tanks and get's to the chiller, it's actually cool to the touch, the boge unit actually creates pretty cool air before it's even chilled. It's amazing how much moisture is capture in the two 80 gallon tanks though, so I would always recommend a tank, or two, it never hurts and will allow your unit to run less. Not so much a worry on the unit, but a 20hp 3 phase compressor does use a lot of juice lol. What alot of people don't realize with air compressors is that they actually send some oil/particulate through the lines over time, heated oils become acidic, the coalescent filters capture that and keep the lines clean and in turn keep any of that crap from getting into your gear over time.
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I have seen diagrams in the past where people put up a zigzag pipe run to help trap moisture after the compressor. Would you do this before the "wet receiver"?
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Probably not necessary with a wet receiver, and I would assume you would want the water OUT of the system, IE draining from the bottom
of the tank.