TSB
General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: Sbrem on February 17, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
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I've received a letter, as I'm most of us have, from AlphaBroder and SanMar jointly, and i urge all to at least read the letter, and give it some consideration.
Steve
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I have yet to receive it, what is it regarding?
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I have yet to receive it, what is it regarding?
http://theinkkitchen.com/2017/02/sanmar-and-alphabroder-working-together/ (http://theinkkitchen.com/2017/02/sanmar-and-alphabroder-working-together/)
pierre
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SanMar and alphabroder are coming together to ask for your help.
February 17, 2017
Dear colleagues and friends,
SanMar and alphabroder are coming together - something we don't normally do - to ask for your help in opposing what might be the greatest threat to our industry in a generation. We are hoping that this joint appeal will communicate the urgency and gravity of this issue.
Last year, as part of a broader effort to reform corporate tax laws, House Republicans published a tax proposal which incorporates a "border adjustability tax," which would impose a tax of 20% on all imports into the United States. Because our industry is so heavily dependent on imports and will be for the foreseeable future, the impact of border adjustability would be immediate, devastating and long-lasting.
While we do not want to take anything away from Made in USA products or the industries that produce goods in America, the manufacturing and labor base of the apparel industry, like many others, is largely absent from this country and has been for decades. It is simply impractical and unrealistic to assume that such a large, across-the-board punitive tax on imports will somehow bring garment factories and their workers back to the United States.
The reality is that this tax will disrupt global business, cause job losses at American companies relying on imports and lead to significant increases in prices on a wide variety of consumer goods, including the products your business relies on. For a typical reseller in our industry, more than 95% of their current apparel offerings would be subject to substantial price increases.
Details of the plan have not yet been released but it is clear that - absent significant changes or elimination of this proposal altogether - our industry will be asked to fund tax reform that will be enjoyed by other companies.
We need your help to communicate our shared concerns with your elected representatives in the House and Senate. Many of you have built your businesses from scratch and have unique stories to share. Your voices are powerful and we urge you to reach out to Congress to share your concerns. The fate of our industry relies on you.
Please email the House and Senate members who represent you. All you need to do is follow this link - [url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d75495bf6360fe7bde364dced1314a9f989b20a1ebd36c21102d8743a55726e9d1f02817ce62933c6a4770c5bee848c2a1[/url] ([url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d75495bf6360fe7bde364dced1314a9f989b20a1ebd36c21102d8743a55726e9d1f02817ce62933c6a4770c5bee848c2a1[/url]) , type in your address and zip code and hit send. A letter will automatically be sent to Congress, and you will be given an opportunity to invite others to take similar action. We also encourage you to call your representatives and voice your concerns to them directly. To find your elected officials' contact information, follow this link -
[url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d7dec0cf2d92bb3f2c510e7220664725a6eec855f098da4058a099dc9cae2cd7c9b087100768cb993cd3ab95c983273282[/url] ([url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d7dec0cf2d92bb3f2c510e7220664725a6eec855f098da4058a099dc9cae2cd7c9b087100768cb993cd3ab95c983273282[/url]) .
A formal coalition recently launched to oppose this dangerous border adjustability tax. The name of the coalition is Americans for Affordable Products and the coalition's website - [url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d7a7e67f322db01aa86ccc082955c65876f572035fe42e1b07c3f34b47c354e14260c40bae83e933a2c33e3ffce25c0d0a[/url] ([url]http://click.em.sanmar.com/?qs=37cbfad1df0d29d7a7e67f322db01aa86ccc082955c65876f572035fe42e1b07c3f34b47c354e14260c40bae83e933a2c33e3ffce25c0d0a[/url]) - contains valuable information and resources. Should you wish to join the coalition or discuss ways in which you can best take action on the issue, please contact the coalition through its website.
Your urgent attention to this is necessary so we can effectively raise our concerns to ensure that tax reform is not done at our industry's expense.
Sincerely,
Jeremy Lott
President, SanMar
Norman Hullinger
CEO, alphabroder
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You Guys need to resist this as much as Prime Minister Justin Trudeau resisted Trumps handshake! haha!
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20% incoming product tax.... Seems like a lot of stuff would cost 20% more.....
It would give the US manufacturers an advantage, but that would still mean stuff is more expensive on the shelf.
And to top it off, a lot of the cheapest labor is being made to feel very unwelcome. As presented I'd bet inflation could easily eclipse 20% as a direct result, so it would take more than a 20% increase in take home to break even.
I don't see it ending up doing anyone any good, except the 20% tax collectors...
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This is news well worth considering. If anyone knows another side to the story, I'd be interested in hearing it. (I obviously haven't researched it yet.)
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I sent a reply back to SanMar, they may quit selling to me now.
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I'm curious as to your reasoning?
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I don't want to drift down a political avenue, but I really don't think it will happen. The strongest bloc of voters for Trump are the blue collar and middle class. A lot of which shop at places like Walmart, Target, Auto Zone, Home Depot and so on. Virtually all of retail is overrun with imported goods. This would hit Trump's base the hardest and turn those folks against him, and I think he knows it.
I could be wrong though.
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I don't want to drift down a political avenue, but I really don't think it will happen. The strongest bloc of voters for Trump are the blue collar and middle class. A lot of which shop at places like Walmart, Target, Auto Zone, Home Depot and so on. Virtually all of retail is overrun with imported goods. This would hit Trump's base the hardest and turn those folks against him, and I think he knows it.
I could be wrong though.
I would give neither the benefit of the doubt on that.
If anyone has an idea of how to compete against $0.13/hr wages I'm all ears. Anyone not involved in manufacturing
and particularly textiles can't seem to grasp that concept.
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:-X
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here is a little more info on the subject which is what is coming up this spring in the house and senate
very unbiased view
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=3ce43c8d-30ec-4056-a9fc-a6d6e7af6aaa (http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=3ce43c8d-30ec-4056-a9fc-a6d6e7af6aaa)
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There is a planet money podcast on this. I'm no economist and forgot most of the mechanics but the jist is that it's not a new concept and some, ah....more qualified individuals feel it has legs.
http://pca.st/fKVS
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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This will change 20x over before it happens. I wish more shirts were made here but know it will never happen again.
A 20% increase is like $.35 to most of us on a shirt?
I just raised my prices $1 to cover USPS increases and it will cover me on any price increases for this.
It is what it is. Taxation is theft.
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This is Trump's America. Of course I'm sure his supporters will figure out some way of blaming this on anyone else or downplay the significance to middle and lower class Americans. The truth is this stuff was obvious and this is only the beginning. Hope you're ready...
Edit: Just to add, The Ink Kitchen hit the nail on the head: "It would be great to encourage US manufacturing, but it is absolutely insane to think that the garment industry is going to come back here in force and that millions of Americans are going to want to work at sewing garments."
This is exactly what every economist and layman with a basic understanding of globalization has been saying for a long time. You can choose to put your head in the sand and believe the Republican "alternative facts" about it, but that isn't actually going to help anything.
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If anyone has an idea of how to compete against $0.13/hr wages I'm all ears. Anyone not involved in manufacturing
and particularly textiles can't seem to grasp that concept.
Well, of course they do, that's why they pitched it.
Once that 20 percent kicks in, we'll be effectively competing with $0.156/hr wages.
Now, as far as I can tell, it looks like a ridiculous idea on paper, but not unusually so considering the source.
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This "proposed" policy will help some, yet hurt many. There needs to be a bit of give-and-take built into the language and not be an absolute, across-the-board memorandum. I remember back in the early 90's paying about $36/dz. for white FOL Lofteez shirts. We may me looking at these levels yet again.
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US manufacturing as this country once knew is not coming back. Ever. And to believe so is disillusion.
Verbiage such as coming (or not coming) "back" is probably confusing to most. As this yields a theory that it is away somewhere else. Which isn't entirely true. The fact is, robots replace more jobs than trade policies ever have or will.
Here's a good read on the topic.
https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62 (https://www.ft.com/content/dec677c0-b7e6-11e6-ba85-95d1533d9a62)
Of course, we do get a bit off topic once the conversation goes this route.
This proposed tax will harm the US. And especially our industry.
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Ok we all knew this was coming this is Trump's way of running the country like a business and we all know his record on some of his business. Someone mention this 20% tax on imports might even the playing field for US manufacturers, I doubt it, the price of goods will be the same across the board. Now if you liked American made products before, you all ready paid a higher price, so people will now pay that price for import items plus the import items might still come in a little cheaper because of labor cost, do all the math you want I think Trump's plan is going to hurt more than help.
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here is my take on it from my business POV. We make custom dye sub sport uniforms(manufactured) here in the USA. I know what manufacturing in the USA never heard of it. in 2 different scenarios we want the tariffs. our competitor company A and B. Company A has his company based out of Mission Texas. He makes his product across the border(at below USA wage) then brings them to the USA to sell to USA customers at X price. Company B(garage) has his company based out of Birmingham AL. He has his product made in China (below USA wage) and has his product shipped to the USA to sell to his USA customer at the same X price as company A. Now neither A nor B knows each other and price X is relatively the same.
Now me as a USA company that is manufacturing a USA made product and is selling it to a USA customer has to compete with price X because majority of customers decide based on price. We do compete at that price and we are very competitive as well. But it would be nice if the playing field was even. And those USA companies which decide to make there product outside the USA then to bring it back in to sell them to a USA consumer should be required to have some tariffs as they are limiting the USA manufactures.
So yes tax or raise tariffs whatever you want to call it. Any USA company which exports production of a product just to bring it back in the USA to sell should IMO be taxed for it.
And yes I am for USA made products. It is my preference. But just because I prefer USA made products does not imply that I hate Mexico, china, nor other countries. When did having pride in oneself and country equate to hate towards others.
so will his ideas on tariffs work or not well it remains to be seen. but remember there are others with just as respectable POV as yourself. and it is the respect for others ideas which is what allows us to coexist.
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There is a good article in The Economist that will clear up some of the misinformation or lies (hard to tell an innocent mistake and a legitimate attempt at misleading to further the agenda) about this. I personally don't want to see tariffs like this but at the same time I don't think it will be something that hurts us as bad as many other things have the last 10 years. It's really something that boils down to partisan hackery. If your guy does it it's fine, if the other guy does it he's a Nazi...or something like that right?...
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Well it's obvious that everybody I don't like politically is a Nazi...and probably the spawn of Hitler himself.
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US manufacturing as this country once knew is not coming back. Ever. And to believe so is disillusion.
Verbiage such as coming (or not coming) "back" is probably confusing to most. As this yields a theory that it is away somewhere else. Which isn't entirely true. The fact is, robots replace more jobs than trade policies ever have or will.
Investment in workers (be it either Private, State or Federal funded) is what forms the bedrock of manufacturing and construction. What's needed are employees with a higher level of skills that mates to the needs of the economy. If any politician wants to create jobs, they should start with worker training. It's the old "build it and they will come" premise.
Also, as the baby-boomer generation retires... there will be a large number of good paying jobs that need to be filled by workers with those skills.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2013/05/07/the-jobs-of-the-future-dont-require-a-college-degree/#40bbdfeb118a (http://www.forbes.com/sites/pascalemmanuelgobry/2013/05/07/the-jobs-of-the-future-dont-require-a-college-degree/#40bbdfeb118a)
And by the way, Trumps promise to save the coal industry is not realistic in a world where fracked gas is not only cheaper, but cleaner.
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You contradicted yourself there.
So you're saying that if Trump trained them in coal mining, then those jobs would suddenly be needed?
Mike Rowe and Norm Abrams(2 of the 3 people I would want to have dinner with, the 3rd being Jesus) had an article about training for the future in This Old House. Many of the jobs are for skilled tradesmen. No amount of free job training for that will attract people to those fields when we are pushing kids into 4 year colleges. A lot of the kids going into college would make more than double what they do with a degree if they went into a field like plumbing or electrical. Those are becoming the jobs of the future because there aren't enough people to fill those jobs.
Tariffs won't solve this problem, and I frankly think they are a bad idea. I would rather see rewards for good behavior than punishment for bad. Hillary had the same thing in one of her ads about punishing companies that send jobs oversees and it made my skin crawl. Same thing with the Donald. I don't like it.
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This will change 20x over before it happens. I wish more shirts were made here but know it will never happen again.
A 20% increase is like $.35 to most of us on a shirt?
I just raised my prices $1 to cover USPS increases and it will cover me on any price increases for this.
It is what it is. Taxation is theft.
Bulldog... If they do this, then they are fleecing us. Because that 20% is based on the good coming in at $1.75... we all know that isn't what Sanmar is paying for their shirts. SO in reality a TRUE 20% increase should be less than that... maybe less than .20 cents. I really have no idea what Sanmar pays for the goods coming in.
This is assuming everything stays on the up and up on the bill of laden coming across the border... anyone that has bought something from China knows that those numbers are often futzed a little bit here and there.
No, I don't doubt for a second that they won't capitalize on it and make it LOOK like they couldn't help but make more money on us due to this "20% increase"... because that's just what every industry has ever done when legislation was passed that allowed them to make it look like they had no choice but to increase prices and point the finger at someone else.
Hell... my prices will essentially do the same thing since my markup is based on my COGs... so my customer will pay an extra 30% vs the 20% and I will blame it on the tariff as well.
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" A lot of the kids going into college would make more than double what they do with a degree if they went into a field like plumbing or electrical".
College is overrated unless you're in math or the sciences, or going into education, and then only if you can keep your head straight while sorting through the social crap infecting higher education. Pushing everyone to college will make a college education even more worthless when standards are lowered to accommodate "everyone". Look at high schools now. States bend over backwards to mask the shortcomings of too many students who simply haven't the aptitude for the work.
Plumbing and electrical aren't glamorous. Neither is teaching. College is 17 to 26 year-olds wrapped up in romantic notions of being socially smarter and more poltically sophisticated than their parents or the schlubs who took the AC/Heating courses at my high school and were in the A/V Club. Don't ask me how I know. Three semesters and a summer with one single teacher taught me what I needed, which I found out about two years later going through the motions. At least when I graduated I didn't owe any money.
Speaking of plumbing, I worked at a software company in the late 70s in the publications division. The head of HR was a woman who'd been married to a plumber whose trade afforded them a very nice house in the swankest neighborhood in the county at the time. She divorced him because she was embarassed of what he did when hanging around the swells in our company.
JMHO
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This "proposed" policy will help some, yet hurt many. There needs to be a bit of give-and-take built into the language and not be an absolute, across-the-board memorandum. I remember back in the early 90's paying about $36/dz. for white FOL Lofteez shirts. We may me looking at these levels yet again.
Back before NAFTA, FoL had several factories in this area. People had great jobs... hell, they had great jobs even by today's standards!
My understanding is the COGs actually went UP from FoL after NAFTA passed.
Even if that information is incorrect, I'm certain the price did not reflect a $12-$15/hour rate to .50 cents a day or whatever they were paying in Mexico!
All of this stuff is a shell game!
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Now I always thought of college as a waste of time for many people, but now let me ask you who was college meant for?
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You contradicted yourself there.
So you're saying that if Trump trained them in coal mining, then those jobs would suddenly be needed?
That's not what I said at all..... I said "employees need a higher level of skills that mate to the needs of the economy".
There's no bright future for coal.
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You contradicted yourself there.
So you're saying that if Trump trained them in coal mining, then those jobs would suddenly be needed?
That's not what I said at all..... I said "employees need a higher level of skills that mate to the needs of the economy".
There's no bright future for coal.
I was harassing you...my point was worker training is a waste of money. A better bet is what I said, stop pushing kids into a 4 year degree. Technical colleges should be filled to capacity. You can't outsource or replace plumbers with robots. I was reading an article that said I think 1/4 or 1/3 of UK government jobs could be replaced by computers, robots, and software.
Gilligan is on to something though. I can see this as a way for Sanmar and Alpha to make more at least on their in house brands.
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I was harassing you...my point was worker training is a waste of money. A better bet is what I said, stop pushing kids into a 4 year degree. Technical colleges should be filled to capacity. You can't outsource or replace plumbers with robots. I was reading an article that said I think 1/4 or 1/3 of UK government jobs could be replaced by computers, robots, and software.
Gilligan is on to something though. I can see this as a way for Sanmar and Alpha to make more at least on their in house brands.
Well then... we agree on that. When I said worker training, I was meaning trade school and Tech college.
I got the annual report (today) from the Industrial Institute I graduated from, way back in 1976. For calendar year 2016, they had a placement rate of 99% (within the graduates field of study) and fielded 8.2 job inquires per graduate. Theses are building trades, robotics, computer technology and industrial design jobs that start at $50K/yr. Tuition at one of these schools is comparable to Private college (about $35k/yr)... but there's work for a graduate the day they get their diploma (sometimes before graduation).
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I was harassing you...my point was worker training is a waste of money. A better bet is what I said, stop pushing kids into a 4 year degree. Technical colleges should be filled to capacity. You can't outsource or replace plumbers with robots. I was reading an article that said I think 1/4 or 1/3 of UK government jobs could be replaced by computers, robots, and software.
Gilligan is on to something though. I can see this as a way for Sanmar and Alpha to make more at least on their in house brands.
Well then... we agree on that. When I said worker training, I was meaning trade school and Tech college.
I got the annual report (today) from the Industrial Institute I graduated from, way back in 1976. For calendar year 2016, they had a placement rate of 99% (within the graduates field of study) and fielded 8.2 job inquires per graduate. Theses are building trades, robotics, computer technology and industrial design jobs that start at $50K/yr. Tuition at one of these schools is comparable to Private college (about $35k/yr)... but there's work for a graduate the day they get their diploma (sometimes before graduation).
Oh, sorry I misunderstood you.
99%? I doubt those kids are still in their parents' basement. I am sure you can find it, but what is the placement rate for colleges? There are 2 college grads still living in their parent's basement right next door to us. They have zero drive, it's pretty sad really. All that money on art school and you made it that far...congrats. Such is the story with that generation though, not all of them of course.
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I find it interesting that on one post people complain there are not enough US products, but when an action might be taken that might spark a change in that direction people shoot it down, never mind none of these people offer up a solution or even attempt try to figure it out. Our debt is 105% of our GDP that has got to change how do you correct that? Spend less and make more. I know one thing for sure, if imports are too costly an opportunity to make it here and be profitable will open up. I am comfortable saying with 100 percent certainty if everything stays the same, there will be no improvements no change. Change is needed for growth in everything we do the economy is no different.
Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
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None of this matters, in a few short years we will all be drones in the robot takeover.
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this is so much bull shirt...why are they not complaining about the corporate tax cut they are just as likely to get. We should all expect a 15 to 30% reduction in our costs to buy shirts based on that possibility alone!
if this works for them then we should get all of our customers to contact Alpha and Sanmar to bitch about the prices they have to pay us for the stuff we sell from Alpha & sanmar.......totally BS never ask your customers to save your business if you can't do it your self!!!!!!!
middle finger icon here
mooseman