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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Dottonedan on March 17, 2017, 10:10:33 AM
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I have always heard that the placement should be about "2 fingers down from collar. 2 fingers is roughly about 2" or 2.25" depending on your fat fingers like mine. I'm typically comfortable seeing it in this area and would agree with the masses. We also know that the "art" shape has much to do with it.
Today, we are printing an upside down baseball home plate with words inside. Very weighted at the bottom. Comes to a point at top.
Where are you normally positioning your top of art?
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we are 3 inch from the neck if design is less than 10 inch tall. if more than 10 inches tall we move up to 2.5 inches.
i always tell my guys to look at the print and it should land so that the middle of the design(vertical) is close to the bottom of the armpits seams.
now if the design has small detail at the top but is more weighted in the design to the bottom then we will more it up to the 2.5 inch.
If they are ladies shirts the the print is 2.5 inch so the print is above the armpit line (on top of the breast and not on the front)
on your job keep them at same location or else customer may say something.
my 2 cents
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I have always heard that the placement should be about "2 fingers down from collar. 2 fingers is roughly about 2" or 2.25" depending on your fat fingers like mine. I'm typically comfortable seeing it in this area and would agree with the masses. We also know that the "art" shape has much to do with it.
Today, we are printing an upside down baseball home plate with words inside. Very weighted at the bottom. Comes to a point at top.
I walk in and it's half done, being printed "starting at" 4 fat fingers down. Landing the majority of the print on the persons stomach. Ugh!.
So, do you keep what was ran already and move it up for the other half...or keep them all run low? Now also keep in mid, we don't have extra's and would delay the order to re-do them. Typical scenario here.
For me placement has always depended on the actual logo but our standard here on say a 12" tall logo would be 3 fingers or roughly 3" below the collar. More and more we are getting 13 and 14 tall logos which we do go to about 2..25 to 2.5 on those from the collar. It would depend on the numbers as to whether you move the remainder. Bad thing is if you move it there will be a noticeable difference in the shirt, possibly getting a complaint on half. If you don't either no one will notice and not say anything or you will get a complaint on the whole order. Difficult decision but I would probably print the order as you have started if they are half way done and take my chances. Now if it is white shirts and an easy print I am replacing them and making them look right. Tough situation!!
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Depends on dimensions/shape of graphic
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Yep, though I have a placement guide (which I have posted countless times), I also use my artist/designer eye and realistically adjust by "weight"
I also, more and more over the last few years tend to favor too high over too low.
As for Dan's question about what to do about keeping them, or what to do with the ones still to be run, I'd have to see them to answer, but whatever I did, I'd strive to be consistent.
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First question:
What did the customer approve?
If they approved 2" Down - production made a mistake - stop production and talk to the sales rep. Then proceed from there.
Second question:
Who approved the production strike? Sounds like a major miscommunication somewhere. Was the sales rep involved?
Third question:
What is actual operating procedure for approvals?
If this happened in my shop, there would be hell to pay and the owner would be very upset. But we have a set procedure where everything new gets my approval and then the sales reps approval. If the sales rep is not there we have one other person set up for approval. Then we start production.
Repeat orders need my approval and if I am not here, then the sales rep or owners approval.
ALL PRINT CHECKS are accompanied with the production paperwork to check against.
My 2 cents
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3 or 4 fingers here (basically 3" depending on the person). Like others have mentioned, style of shirt and the visual weight of the art will change that up or down as well. Single inch tall line of text may end up 4" down, 19" long art may start 1.5" down.
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So it varies
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Concur with pretty much all of the above. Here's my addition: If by some chance you started printing largest sizes first, you might get away with migrating the print upward as sizes get smaller. Could look reasonable if customer compares shirts. But if smallest sizes were printed first, absolutely don't change! Either stick to the original position; or, if they really look like misprints, deal with them as such.
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My errors. Brain was not computing as needed. I know it's to be roughly 3 fingers down. I put 2 in my post and even put 2-2.25" down in the post. But yea, so indeed, they still look too low. We kept them consistent.
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The finger thing is dumb. I made a pen that has a ruler on it *Patent Pending* for us. 0 starts at the tip of the pen.
Placement should be dictated by the customer, if not then recommend by the rep, and then use judgement on press to make it good. But saying 3 fingers gives me shivers because it makes it seem like placement isn't important.
I made a general guide based around our standard that the printers have. It came from someone else here so feel free to remix it.
My 3 fingers is 2.25"
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We have a guide at the back of every dryer. We also have mannequins (2) at the back of each dryer. Every shirt gets placed on the mannequin and checked for placement cause every logo placement is different.
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The finger thing is dumb. I made a pen that has a ruler on it *Patent Pending* for us. 0 starts at the tip of the pen.
Placement should be dictated by the customer, if not then recommend by the rep, and then use judgement on press to make it good. But saying 3 fingers gives me shivers because it makes it seem like placement isn't important.
I made a general guide based around our standard that the printers have. It came from someone else here so feel free to remix it.
My 3 fingers is 2.25"
"From Collar" give me shivers because to some that's the opening and to some it's the bottom of the ribbed ring that we refer to as the collar, which can vary in width from brand to brand and style to style. Myself, I use the opening as the one constant on all shirts, and, of course, also what allows us to see old school pre laser marks on our boards.
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From sewn hem vs raw edge are common placement references when working with certain manufacturers. The difference is app 5/8 of an inch and can be critical if you print for Nike as an example. The finger reference is a bit crude and subjective IMO
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Myself, I use the opening as the one constant on all shirts, and, of course, also what allows us to see old school pre laser marks on our boards.
Good point as that makes it easy to see the marks on the pallet for consistent loading. Everywhere I've ever been has always measured from collar at the bottom of the collar. This however changes on say a tank which doesn't have the ribbing, but tanks usually print up higher as they have a lower neck so taking out that inch compensates well.
I have one customer who specs everything from top of collar, and sometimes shoulder seam. I just convert these to our standard which is the bottom of collar as I don't really agree on moving locations on size to size (unless Men's vs Women's) as no matter how large or small a person is, the distance between their neckline to their nipples (where I gauge where the placement should be), and the width between their nipples doesn't really vary that much.
For instance the Nike equality tee is printed way to high in my opinion. Whoever spec'd that needed to add an inch and a half.
Which is why it is important that placement is a guide, and ultimately the purpose should be to interpret what the customer really wants wether we think it is dumb or not. I have customers who like what I think is too high of placement, and some that like what I think is to low, but it is up to them in the end, shouldn't be left up for a printer to decide on the fly by flopping down their fingers and putting some paint on the tee.
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We measure for the top of the collar.
I use a system I learnt from Dane (Great Dane), our top registration mark is fixed.
The graphics department have a chart and position the image below the registration mark based on the chart.
The printers always set up with the top registration mark in the same position, this means that the position is pre determined by the graphics and not by the printers. They always load the same way. Use the same laser mark.
Obviously we check after set up but 99% of the time it's accurate.
The bottom registration mark moves up and down the center line according to the size of the graphics.
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Great discussion. Brings up some important issues.
One for Maxie. Having the art department start there for placement...especially for CTS allows the shop to streamline setup.
If screens are set up using film, then there should be a guide in the screen room to set things up in the same location all the time. But like ZaneGun said, sure, it should be what the customer wants.
I've been in some shops that had the art printing randomly in different spots for the same type of position (even when using cts). Never in the same height, up and down. (not using any templates) that made the output base don the art size... that caused the press operators to have to move pallets in and out for each job! Crazy. Position is important.
That said, the term "fingers" was/is still used loosely and a lot of people use that term knowing it's to be taken "loosely.
It's something people can refer to quickly at any time...rather than getting a ruler. Lets face it. even when you specifically say "4" down", every shirt does not get loaded and printed exactly at 4" down. Some dead on, some a tad higher, some a tad lower. Some a little to the left, some right. It's just that the target window is tighter. I guess that's why "fingers" is acceptable. Who's fingers? it's arbitrary. A fat finger or a skinny finger...it's "close enough" but, we all know this. I see your point. Fingers just sounds as if it's not that important. Like close your eyes and toss a dart and hope it gets close.