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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: Dottonedan on April 05, 2017, 06:39:44 PM
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So, I've come to understand that there are two different areas of pressure settings.
THe one, Lets call it the Press's overall pressure setting. THis, you've heard me mention is set at 50lb on our press. I've heard this is pretty common, but some have found their sweet spot to be a little lower, like 35 and 40 for example. You apparently find this sweet spot once all other variables are honed in on, and your prints are where you like them.
THIS, main pressure setting, I didn't know about. In all my years, (not being a press operator), I've never paid attention enough to know about a "main setting", since when ever I needed to adjust pressure, I'd tell them to provide less or more, and they would adjust (at top) on the squeegee pressure adjustment knobs that read up to 1.5" as if on a ruler (speaking of M&R presses) only.
So, I've seen people use these time and time again, but after now looking into it bit, I am told that the overall press pressure "should be set to one setting and left alone...(and I would understand and agree with) to keep all things consistent in how you run. You would want things streamlined as much as can be...but), that's not what I see people doing.
I see, read and hear many people tweaking pressure using those top knobs. adjusting, lowering or raising pressure on squeegee...to tweak a print. This is how I imagined it would work. NO? Is it a sin? But I'm told that you should not need to adjust those top nobs and if you feel you need to, then something else is out of whack on press. NO? Is one setting on press a "set it and forget it" kind of thing? I think not.
How do you tweak squeegee pressure in the real world?
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Only on the automatics that do NOT have a pressure regulator on the front of the arm - will I ever touch the depth settings on the squeegee.
If your press has a pressure regulator - keep the squeegee depth set at maximum and do ALL pressure adjustments with that front knob.
That way EVERYTHING will read the same and there will never be confusion when re-setting up a job as to what pressure was used.
When I, and many others, talk about pressure settings - it is always from the pressure dial on the front of the arm.
Hope this helps :)
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Only on the automatics that do NOT have a pressure regulator on the front of the arm - will I ever touch the depth settings on the squeegee.
If your press has a pressure regulator - keep the squeegee depth set at maximum and do ALL pressure adjustments with that front knob.
That way EVERYTHING will read the same and there will never be confusion when re-setting up a job as to what pressure was used.
When I, and many others, talk about pressure settings - it is always from the pressure dial on the front of the arm.
Hope this helps :)
Well, I'll be darned. My source was right based on your statements. THANKS!!!!
Ya see, that's why I never think or claim I know all. I'm learning so much now about the other side. I like this job. :)
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After thinking about this for a little bit if the Squeegee pressure is the same, then why is it that over the years we would need to adjust various colors individually. Is that a case-by-case basis or are you saying that you would never need to adjust Squeegee pressure if you have the main pressure on the front not I'm talking individually.
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The adjustments on the choppers are DEPTH adjustments.
Unless you're a sucker like me running an older press. Then they're both.
If you push those depth adjustments down, they will add pressure, but is not an ideal way of doing it if you have regs.
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We will never change the depth of the squeegee blade.
We will change the pressure according to the mesh/ink type/type of print (halftones vs. spot)/etc..
I will go up to 40-50 pounds for sim process work.
I will go up to 50-60 pounds for "vintage" thin ink deposits.
I will be at 20-30 pounds for some top colors. But sometimes I need to go up to 40... it depends on how the ink is behaving...
We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
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colin and screenfoo nailed it.
I'll toss in that pressure as defined here is a poor metric to compare with other shops. It can be different on the same model press. Also, the cyls used for this on all the presses I've used aren't very accurate, you know the ones, the smcs that you pull the knob up, adjust, press knob back, print and it's way off the dial reading you just saw. No idea why mfg's use this type of cyl for this adjustment. Squeegee angle is major factor that will change everything related to depth and pressure. Last off, many presses have significant deflection which may drive the use of what looks like weird amounts of pressure.
Don't focus on others' pressures, focus on getting your crew to use the minimum pressure to reliably clear that screen.
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I will second everything Chris just said.
The longer arms on my 14 color sportsman require more pressure to get the results that I want - than if I was on my modified 12 color (10 color arm size = shorter arms). I can print at 20 pounds, sometimes lower on the 12c - and I need almost double that on the 14c.
My understanding is that the ROQ presses have extremely little variation on press sizes.
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We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
Exactly. And just when you got it all figured out your substrate changes.
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We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
Exactly. And just when you got it all figured out your substrate changes.
Truth
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We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
Exactly. And just when you got it all figured out your substrate changes.
This^^
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So to make sure I'm getting this the knobs on the front that are the main pressure adjust, does it control every head all at one time or just that individual head?
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So to make sure I'm getting this the knobs on the front that are the main pressure adjust, does it control every head all at one time or just that individual head?
Only that head, all pressure adjustments are individual heads
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We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
Ink, screens, stencils, squeegees, presses, dryers, and occasionally the press op too. ;D
The analogy is very good, and in that respect I'd just mention that sticking to doing random things will lead to failure as well.
Do pseudo random things, see what works, repeat that for variables involved and develop some instinct.
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We will never change the depth of the squeegee blade.
We will change the pressure according to the mesh/ink type/type of print (halftones vs. spot)/etc..
I will go up to 40-50 pounds for sim process work.
I will go up to 50-60 pounds for "vintage" thin ink deposits.
I will be at 20-30 pounds for some top colors. But sometimes I need to go up to 40... it depends on how the ink is behaving...
We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
What? there is no absolute one best way to do everything? Blasphemy I say
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MAKE sure everyone in the shop KNOWS that the depth adjusters adjust depth AND to never ever again call them pressure adjusters. (sure they can adjust the pressure, but so can off contact settings and no one calls off contact "pressure."
A depth stop is a depth stop.
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We will never change the depth of the squeegee blade.
We will change the pressure according to the mesh/ink type/type of print (halftones vs. spot)/etc..
I will go up to 40-50 pounds for sim process work.
I will go up to 50-60 pounds for "vintage" thin ink deposits.
I will be at 20-30 pounds for some top colors. But sometimes I need to go up to 40... it depends on how the ink is behaving...
We are all a part of a craft industry. There is no Absolute right or wrong way to make things work. But only sticking to one way of doing things will lead to failure.
Go with the flow and be in the moment. Ink is zen :)
What? there is no absolute one best way to do everything? Blasphemy I say
;D
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I've locked our depth adjusters with the set screws. We haven't touched those on the RPM in 5 years and once I had the G3 dialed in they won't ever move.
As far as the PSI settings, we print as fast as possible which means our pressure settings will vary a great deal from one job to the next. With the different inks and mesh counts our squeegee speed also changes, but I've learned that when using high shear speeds you can get away with using more pressure (you kind of have to). A print done at 4"/sec and 18 psi doesn't have near the opacity and smoothness as the same print done at 30"/sec and 45 psi.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Do you lock your squeegees at the lowest point and adjust the pressure with the air gauge and this works on all substrates, T shirts, sweatshirts?
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Dan I like your questions. Soon you'll be able to publish a guide to printing on a automatic based on the answers.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Do you lock your squeegees at the lowest point and adjust the pressure with the air gauge and this works on all substrates, T shirts, sweatshirts?
Not it's lowest possible distance, just low enough so that it is always going to travel far enough to bring the stencil into contact with the substrate. Imagine if the pallet wasn't there, I don't want the squeegee to travel an inch or two further than where the pallet would have stopped it, but rather far enough so that the squeegee will do it's job. Maybe that distance is 1/2", or 1/4", I'm not real sure, but I know that it doesn't have to be set to it's maximum distance to be effective.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Do you lock your squeegees at the lowest point and adjust the pressure with the air gauge and this works on all substrates, T shirts, sweatshirts?
Not it's lowest possible distance, just low enough so that it is always going to travel far enough to bring the stencil into contact with the substrate. Imagine if the pallet wasn't there, I don't want the squeegee to travel an inch or two further than where the pallet would have stopped it, but rather far enough so that the squeegee will do it's job. Maybe that distance is 1/2", or 1/4", I'm not real sure, but I know that it doesn't have to be set to it's maximum distance to be effective.
this is the correct thought process. As long as the cylinders do not bottom out on full stroke the front regulated will do its job.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Do you lock your squeegees at the lowest point and adjust the pressure with the air gauge and this works on all substrates, T shirts, sweatshirts?
Not it's lowest possible distance, just low enough so that it is always going to travel far enough to bring the stencil into contact with the substrate. Imagine if the pallet wasn't there, I don't want the squeegee to travel an inch or two further than where the pallet would have stopped it, but rather far enough so that the squeegee will do it's job. Maybe that distance is 1/2", or 1/4", I'm not real sure, but I know that it doesn't have to be set to it's maximum distance to be effective.
this is the correct thought process. As long as the cylinders do not bottom out on full stroke the front regulated will do its job.
RICH,
Our new guy here reminded me that it was older presses where you would adjust the depth adjusters to adjust squeegee pressure. (back last time I worked in a shop was at Disney) and was seeing people cranking on those top depth adjusters. That was 15 years ago (and those presses weren't brand new either. In fact, that's when I first met you. It was my error in assuming we still did that. (much has changed since then.). LOL.
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This is an interesting topic.
We have a Tas and only ever adjust squeegee pressure by winding knobs that heighten or lower the squeegee and flood bar. Is there a difference between this and pressure from regulators (if that's what you call it)? If at all adjustable on a TAS they are not in a user friendly position to give you the impression they should be adjusted.
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I'm not sure I understand.
Do you lock your squeegees at the lowest point and adjust the pressure with the air gauge and this works on all substrates, T shirts, sweatshirts?
Not it's lowest possible distance, just low enough so that it is always going to travel far enough to bring the stencil into contact with the substrate. Imagine if the pallet wasn't there, I don't want the squeegee to travel an inch or two further than where the pallet would have stopped it, but rather far enough so that the squeegee will do it's job. Maybe that distance is 1/2", or 1/4", I'm not real sure, but I know that it doesn't have to be set to it's maximum distance to be effective.
this is the correct thought process. As long as the cylinders do not bottom out on full stroke the front regulated will do its job.
RICH,
Our new guy here reminded me that it was older presses where you would adjust the depth adjusters to adjust squeegee pressure. (back last time I worked in a shop was at Disney) and was seeing people cranking on those top depth adjusters. That was 15 years ago (and those presses weren't brand new either. In fact, that's when I first met you. It was my error in assuming we still did that. (much has changed since then.). LOL.
That old oval didn't even have angle adjustment. Much easier prints back then!
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Guys. some printing problems have nothing to do with the type of ink or what your printing on. Sometimes it's just good ole maintance.
It could be anywhere from a slightly warped platen to a warped squgee and metal fatigue.
Water sometime gets into the air supply lines, causing the volume of air to fluxate ever so slightly, that is almost impossible to notice.
Its not always pressure, but volome also. Unless its an all elec press. But even motors get weak.
Just food for thought.
anyways...I am here for you Howard Ray 713 344 8604
So, after saying this.. keep a eye on your press also, espically more mature ones( its better than saying old ones_))
Also..different temps inside your shop causes printing problems
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That old oval didn't even have angle adjustment. Much easier prints back then!
I ran an old electric Precision oval in early '90s. We had squeegee holders that had the blade mounted in a slotted cylinder. That cylinder could be rotated to change blade angle.
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I remember those!
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I remember those!
We are getting old Tony.