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screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: Frog on February 28, 2017, 10:19:43 AM
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One step closer to good exposures. (remember baby steps)
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You seem to have everything on the floor.
You could put together a simple drying cabinet and screw it to the wall above the other equipment.
You can use the space up to the ceiling.
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True. I will have look into how to maximize my space. It certainly can be done.
And thanks Frog for the idea about jig for making better positive contact. Ive seen similar ideas around the net however Im not too sure where to accommodate a piece of foam for this purpose.
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True. I will have look into how to maximize my space. It certainly can be done.
And thanks Frog for the idea about jig for making better positive contact. I've seen similar ideas around the net however I'm not too sure where to accommodate a piece of foam for this purpose.
You mean that you don't think that you can easily find foam rubber in Chico? How about Gates Resale-Army Surplus as a start?
Remember that you want good contact, so a lot of compression is the goal. If the foam is not significantly fatter then the depth of the screen, make a "spacer" out of plywood. Also, cover the foam with something like a sheet of black felt or other fabric.
btw, good tip for anyone working with foam rubber is use that electric carving knife that seldom sees any real action. It's almost the same as what the foam shops use. Cheap and pretty common at garage sales because they just don't get enough use in the kitchen or at the dining table.
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OK, so "foam rubber" is whats preferable in a jig like this??... I will have to search around.
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Kind of a side question - not that Im ready for it yet, but I presume with the current exposure setup that I have right now, I probably cant achieve decent halftones?... or would it be possible after all?
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Depends on your view of what a decent halftone is. With your current setup I would say no.
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Kind of a side question - not that Im ready for it yet, but I presume with the current exposure setup that I have right now, I probably cant achieve decent halftones?... or would it be possible after all?
Good halftones, or anything small require good contact because the light "sneaks" under, and closes up small open areas or fattens-up small lines.
With what you have, the very least you will need to hold anything tiny and to keep sharp edges is a hunk of foam rubber and some sort of downward pressure on your glass, with either weights or some sort of bungee cord arrangement.
Bottom line, the simpler your equipment, the simpler the designs you will be limited to.
On the other hand, for my market, 90% of my work does not require any halftones, though some is still quite detailed.
Master solid black or color on white, move on to solid white on black, master it, then worry about halftones.
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Thanks, yeah most, if not all of my artwork is generally basic spot color designs however I would like to explore halftones later on once I get multicolor spot color jobs down.
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Thanks, yeah most, if not all of my artwork is generally basic spot color designs however I would like to explore halftones later on once I get multicolor spot color jobs down.
Spot colors are inks of a specific color rather than an ink mixed by printing a combination or inks. Solid, halftone, whatever.
Likewise, halftones can be printed as spot colors or process colors.
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Thanks, yeah most, if not all of my artwork is generally basic spot color designs however I would like to explore halftones later on once I get multicolor spot color jobs down.
Spot colors are inks of a specific color rather than an ink mixed by printing a combination or inks. Solid, halftone, whatever.
Likewise, halftones can be printed as spot colors or process colors.
Whoops, well what I meant was the artwork I will be using primarily will not rely on gradients that later need to be rendered into halftones for exposure. Solid color designs is what I meant to say I suppose?
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Depends on your view of what a decent halftone is. With your current setup I would say no.
I dunno about that. I was shooting halftones with a 500 watt Home Depot flood and weights on glass holding down the film. Can be done. Not like 4 color done, but 1 color for shading effects done.
A lot of my early Band Prints were just white on black and I was able to print halftones for effect.
Technically a halftone is not much more than a gradual reduction of a color on an image controlled by a RIP when printing to get a graduated spread of dots that fool the eye when viewing the print into thinking it's actually different tones of the target color.
Did I say that right, guys?
I only said that so he realizes it's not exactly rocket science to get from spots to halftones, but he will need one of these: PS, Corel, or Illy to graduate a color and of course....a RIP, which Ghost is still free and it does work.
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Nice. When theres a will, theres a way!
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That's why I said it depends.
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Wait, wait, wait.... I just realized, did you say there is a free RIP software available??? Ive been searching for one for ages. Ghost??
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I use the toilet as a drying room with L brackets on the wall that hold the frames horizontal above the bowl. It's a small room so it's easy to dehumidify or dry with heater, and it's got no windows so screens are safe there for a few days or a week.
Bit weird taking a piss with a frame right there in my eye line, but it works well enough.
Not sure how your house is set up, but a small bathroom or shower just outside your garage might be the answer.
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In November I upgraded to a larger space with a lot more room to work. Last week the a/c went out completely and the landlord wanted me to pay for it. We agreed to disagree and he released me from my lease.
Now I am currently set up in my garage. Luckily it is a 3 car with a/c and heat. My plan is to reduce the amount of jobs I bring in and only catalog screens for now. Still have to get a few things out and get my exposure unit and screens in. I kind of like the set up for now.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170301/7a27b5f4c5a6bfd1d0ae13a73489d6b2.jpg)
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I only said that so he realizes it's not exactly rocket science to get from spots to halftones, but he will need one of these: PS, Corel, or Illy to graduate a color and of course....a RIP, which Ghost is still free and it does work.
Actually, a RIP is not necessary if you have Photoshop. I still do everything manually, convert to Bitmap & choose halftone settings from there; and I've got my printer settings dialed in to get a very rich black. I even sep & output CMYK this way. (I probably need to change to a RIP for efficiency's sake; but the point is you don't have to have one.)
FWIW, I did use GhostRIP in the past (when working from Corel), and yes, it worked & was free. (Albeit cumbersome & lacking some features. But still did the job.)
I use the toilet as a drying room ...
Not sure how your house is set up, but a small bathroom or shower just outside your garage might be the answer.
My first coat & washout area was the shower. I built a small, collapsible drying rack that I'd put in there, along with a dehumidifier. As soon as they were dry, they went into cardboard boxes for storage (coated) or went to print. (Reclaim was done outside w/ a different setup. Reclaimed emulsion does not belong in house plumbing!)
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Hey Prince thanks for the input. Ive been learning how to manually output my own RIPS via Photoshop as well, but I was under the impression that a proper RIP gave you more control over dot gain, etc. such as AccuRIP Black Pearl??.... anyways, for basic halftones, especially 1 color Photoshop is more than enough I believe also... I just need to learn the ins and outs of how to output that way properly... plus, thats far ahead in the future. Not quite ready for that anyways.
So right now, for the time being until I can build a dry cab I believe I am going to attempt to drape a few UHAUL blankets over my rack and let them air dry in the garage without a fan blowing on them..... I figure if i can coat them in the morning in the ballpark of 9am then I might have a chance at a fully dried screen by around 10-12pm hopefully...
Also for exposure, i bought a fairly thick piece of glass previously for sandwiching my positives so I think that combined with maybe some $2 plastic clamps from the hardware store on all four corners might help a "tiny bit" at least until I can build an exposure jig.
For my first project I wanted to attempt a simple 2 color image for son. I know I should more than likely be beginning with 1 color but Im up for the challenge.
This is what the design looks like:
(https://s11.postimg.org/5kw1o79qb/Screen_Shot_2017_03_01_at_12_52_13_PM.png)
I figure I will have to choke the image back for an underbase, so...
Plate 1 - White Underbase
Plate 2 - Red
???
Not sure if i can just hit/flash/hit for the white since or if I really need another screen just for the white over the underbase, but that doesnt make much sense to me to do it that way??...
Tips??
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The best way to do this job is with three screens, though it's often hard to justify this with less than 24 or so pieces (at least when you're trying to make money)
White underbase, under everything and, as you said choked back at least on the red part. p-f-p, doesn't need to be solid or opaque, just kinda' white.
red print (you may need to flash this or not depending lots of things like how tight your highlight white screen is, how much you flashed your underbase, and if you are using a red that prints wet on wet.Last, the top white. Will your press hold tight enough registration to do this?
1. Now, if this was me, and the run was really small (as I assume this is), I might cheat one of three ways, all only requiring two screens.
You could p-f-p-f the white, and lay your red over a solid underbase.
2. p-f-p an opaque red with no underbase
3. p-f-p-f the white, print the red and flash it. Place a small piece of paper (I like baking parchment especially if the red is sticky) on the red 01, and print the top white. Remove the paper from the screen carefully so as not to smear.
I also have to ask why the stuff looks like a poor trace with scalloped edges. Is that by design?
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This is just something to get my feet wet and I thought it'd be fun for a first go at it. It's for my kid, and I'm not concerned about other variables right now other than trying to render decent results. If possible I'd like to pass on the underbase but I assume it's necessary on something like a royal blue shirt color. I'm ok with it looking vintage and I prefer a soft hand, but if the design is going to look totally muted to the point where you can't even see it then an underbase is obviously necessary.
And yeah... the look of the design is intentional. I wanted it to look sort of sketched/hand drawn rather then a perfect vector design as it's for my kid. It's a filter in illustrator called roughen.
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This is just something to get my feet wet and I thought it'd be fun for a first go at it. It's for my kid, and I'm not concerned about other variables right now other than trying to render decent results. If possible I'd like to pass on the underbase but I assume it's necessary on something like a royal blue shirt color. I'm ok with it looking vintage and I prefer a soft hand, but if the design is going to look totally muted to the point where you can't even see it then an underbase is obviously necessary.
And yeah... the look of the design is intentional. I wanted it to look sort of sketched/hand drawn rather then a perfect vector design as it's for my kid. It's a filter in illustrator called roughen.
We've never asked what inks you use, and what screen meshes you have.
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Good question...
I have:
4 110 mesh (wood) screens that came with the kit, plus...
2 156 mesh metal screens, and
2 200 mesh metal screens, that I purchased later on
These are all brand new and unused, however they've sat in the rack in the garage for several years (so hopefully they're still in good shape?)... the tension still seems good as far as I can tell.
The inks I have are also the ones that came with the kit. They're all International Coatings Plastisols.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170301/ffbcbbff33f2a9a93398b2223f4e1317.jpg)
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The 110 should see very limited use. I only use mine on certain fleece jobs. Years ago, they were common for white and other opaque inks before inks and equipment got better and the market demanded a softer hand.
Your underbase, and probably your top white will probably use the 156's and the red the 200.
What inks do you have?
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Sorry, I forgot to list the inks. I updated my response.
*I know I'm looking like a "textbook newbie" right now, lol. But this is all I got at the moment. From what I've read this old IC stuff is not so awesome. I have some curable reducer as well which I was considering giving a try since this stuff is supposed to be terribly thick and hard to work with.
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From what I've read this old IC stuff is not so awesome.
How old? If really many years, the biggest problem may be that they are not compliant with the laws for children's clothing. (at least 5 and under)
What have you heard is not so awesome about it? I've used various IC inks for 20 years.
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Frog, I bought the kit almost 5 years ago. The inks have been stored in my garage as they appear in the pic for the entire duration. Hopefully the summer seasons did not actually cure any of them! Lol
I just heard the IC white is hard to work with but people say all kinds of stuff on the Internet. I'll take it with a grain of salt until I take a stab at it myself.
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five years ago is probably the newer formulations, but it may also say on the label if it is phthalate free or compliant. You could always contact IC and give them lot numbers if needed.
Only really matters is you ever intend to do the little kid stuff.
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I see, thanks for all the info Frog. They actually all have a "phthalate compliant" logo on the labels, so I guess its fine?
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Frog, a word about "soft hand"... I really want to achieve a soft hand with my prints right out the gate as a preference to how I like my own shirts to feel. Should I stray away from attempting such a thing in the beginning or is that an attainable goal? Would I need to add a curable reducer in order to achieve a true soft hand, or would simply using a high mesh count and viscous ink work just the same?
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Frog, a word about "soft hand"... I really want to achieve a soft hand with my prints right out the gate as a preference to how I like my own shirts to feel. Should I stray away from attempting such a thing in the beginning or is that an attainable goal? Would I need to add a curable reducer in order to achieve a true soft hand, or would simply using a high mesh count and viscous ink work just the same?
Lotsa' folks here who will have ay more to contribute than me, but overly simplified, I'd say that with dark plastisol inks on light shirts, it's very attainable (though perhaps I'd look into soft hand base rather than curable reducer)
With white or other opaque inks on dark shirts, there's a little more to it.
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OK, well since I wanted to have a go at printing on Royal Blue first my guess is id be better off with an underbase is what it sounds like...
Can you elaborate on when to choose curable reducer over fashion base??? Im still totally confused on that one since most answers seem to convolute the topic even more.
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I sent you a pm.
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Thanks, I messaged you back. ????????
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sbrown.
Additives - Welcome to a completely new world within the world of textile screen printing.
Curable Reducer: A balanced very low viscosity ink (close to water) that is designed to quickly reduce the "body" or "stiffness" of an ink. When cured it will NOT enahance the softness of a print. But it will make a stiff/difficult to print ink - easier to print. Do not exceed 5%-10% by weight as you WILL begin to see opacity changes when printing onto medium and darker color shirts. However, add as much as needed to accomplish the task at hand. Just make sure to adjust your print as needed. Curable reducer is commonly used by novice printers to assist in getting clean prints until they have climbed up the rungs of the learning curve ;)
Fashion Base: A balanced VERY low viscosity ink (close to water) that is designed to PENETRATE into the fabric of the shirt in order to mimic waterbase inks. When cured by itself, it will exhibit a very very soft feel, have very little "hand" and drape extremely well. It is also used to SOFTEN the hand of standard plastisols. Adding more than 10% by weight will lower the opacity of the ink. The more you add, the lower the opacity. If you have a "pigment system" you can directly add colored pigments to the base to make your inks more opaque. However they will not be as opaque as standard plastisols.
Fashion base feels softer than curable reducer due to several different ingredients. Examples: There are some waxes that feel very silky and the pvc resin is much softer. Think of soft lure baits compared to a squeegee blade kind of soft.
The drawback to using Fashion base and similar bases is that they DO NOT MATTE FIBERS WELL. So any use of the base should be tested before being put into production.
If you have any more questions: Fire Away!
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Colin - Thank you for the detailed response regarding curable reducer vs fashion base! That really clarifies things. :)
Wayne - I got your email. I apologize for not responding yet but wanted to thank you for taking the time out of your day to jot all that down for me. Thanks brother. Its been a wacky week so Im just now catching up on messages...
On a related note - Anyone have recommendations for dehumidifiers that don't cost an arm and a leg but would be suitable for garage operation?
Thanks,
Shaun
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the best place to get a dehumidifier on a budget is craigslist...just make sure it hasn't been recalled. Recalls on those seem to be a fairly common thing. I had one that almost started a fire...the wall behind it was discolored and covered with soot.
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On a related but different note - Anyone have recommendations for dehumidifiers that don't cost an arm and a leg but would be suitable for garage operation?
Thanks,
Shaun
Okay, look what I was typing while Brad responded LOL!
Craigslist. Pretty common, and could be few choices.
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Theres literally 1 in my area, thats it....
https://chico.craigslist.org/hsh/6014114077.html
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try offerup and letgo
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Found one on FB marketplace...
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try offerup and letgo
as well as Craigslist in a week or two. Stuff moves. Listing change.
btw, I got my first one at a garage sale.
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Frog, would that LG on facebook cut it?? I can def swing $40 bucks right now...
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Probably, but I have no idea what its rating is (pints of water removed in 24 hours), or exactly what you need.
Mine is in a cabinet, so I have no doubt that mine is big enough.
You may want to get the model number, look up the specs, and then check out this. Keep in mind that high ceilings may make your space bigger than the average square footage usually represents
(http://www.dehumidifierweb.com/wp-content/uploads/sizing-table.jpg)
and maybe read this https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dehumidifiers/dehumidifier_basics (https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dehumidifiers/dehumidifier_basics)
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It was sold... I will have to keep looking
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Frog, I was wondering... what would be your recommended "go-to" screen meshes to always have on hand?? Im obviously just getting started, but its clear the more mesh options you have the better so Im curious on your thoughts...
Thanks,
Shaun
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160 and 200 take care of a lot of jobs for me, also printing manually.
Of course, the more you have total, the more room you have for some more variety.
You may be interested in this old poll and thread that shows that most of our members have at least 50 screens. (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3907.msg42894.html#msg42894)
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Thank you for the tip Frog!
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Hey guys, I have a couple questions regarding preparation and cleanup...
1. After washing out your design following exposure and letting your screens dry, is it recommended to wash the screen off once more with a cleaning chemical or just water before printing? ( I work in my garage, and even though I strive to keep my area clean dust still does make its way onto things eventually )
2. After printing a job, what is the recommended procedure for cleaning up plastisol inks from your press and screens?
UPDATES:
I emulsified and exposed my first 4 screens which went pretty darn well for a first try!
Application to my very first screen was a bit of a mess as I haven't dialed in the intricacies of the process but I quickly got better as I moved through each screen.
For the time being until I can build a drycab, I pinned some heavy moving blankets around my cart to keep it light safe during drying.... I let them dry for a full 24 hours which seemed to do the trick. I used a board and piece of foam underneath my screen (until I can build a compression jig) to create a little better positive contact which amazingly seemed to render really defined results... I was expecting much worse tbh. I also dialed in exposure time on my first screen with a calculator so the following screens were a breeze. My films turned out pretty good too considering Im not running any special rip software or all black ink system, however I did notice a small issue with ink just slightly being printed on the very corners of my films for some reason... haven't solved what the reason for that is yet, but it did cause some pinholes that I will either have to block out or tape.
All in all though, so far I feel like Im off to a good start.
Thanks for your time!
-SB