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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Croft on March 21, 2018, 03:22:29 PM
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Anyone out there ever have excessive strike failures on the MSP 3140 and fix it.
This has always happened since new , I adjusted the the voltage on it as directed with little success. Usually it will go through spats of always throwing the failure but then will work well for few.
Now it seems we shoot a screen go to rinse , rinse completely then come back to shoot the next screen and still it will strike fail a couple of times before it lights up.
Its particularly hi lighted now since we got a new Starlight but still need to use this or at least have it working to sell.
Any help would be appreciated
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We have this issue as the bulb ages. When was the last time you switched it out? We need a new one every 6 months or so.
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Hopefully it's just the bulb, so start there obviously.
But we had what you describe happen and got to replace this guy:
https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/PD29/single-phase-choke-60hz-120v (https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/PD29/single-phase-choke-60hz-120v)
Twice.
My opinion is internal cooling is inadequate on the 3140's, and to be honest, just about every exposure unit I've seen.
Not a big deal if you are shooting 10 photopolymer screens a day, but at 50 diazo things start to get hot.
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bulb is about 3 months old, never really noticed difference between old or new bulbs, we just replace every year
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Hopefully it's just the bulb, so start there obviously.
But we had what you describe happen and got to replace this guy:
https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/PD29/single-phase-choke-60hz-120v (https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/PD29/single-phase-choke-60hz-120v)
Twice.
did it make a difference both times?
My opinion is internal cooling is inadequate on the 3140's, and to be honest, just about every exposure unit I've seen.
Not a big deal if you are shooting 10 photopolymer screens a day, but at 50 diazo things start to get hot.
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Fixed it both times.
For about a year.
The other super unfortunate thing is that there is no diagnosis for the part other than replacement.
Short of some ridiculous test equipment at any rate.
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We have had this issue a few times over the life of the unit. All is well and then for who knows why, it fails to light.
Fought with mine today for a couple of screens...then did 3 more with it striking the first attempt.
I had a gentleman give me support over the phone the first time we dealt with the issue. The diagnosis was this part;
https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/VE1140/contactor-2-poles-25a-120vac (https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/VE1140/contactor-2-poles-25a-120vac)
We tried a new bulb before that part was replaced and it didn't help.
I have replaced this pc twice in the last 10 years.
I may need to replace it again. I am going to look at the other part in the link in the other post...maybe that needs to be replaced as well.
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It happens more at our shop when the humidity level increases as well.
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I had the same problem and it was the bulb. I would start with that.
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We have had this issue a few times over the life of the unit. All is well and then for who knows why, it fails to light.
Fought with mine today for a couple of screens...then did 3 more with it striking the first attempt.
I had a gentleman give me support over the phone the first time we dealt with the issue. The diagnosis was this part;
https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/VE1140/contactor-2-poles-25a-120vac (https://www.mrprint.com/store/product/VE1140/contactor-2-poles-25a-120vac)
We tried a new bulb before that part was replaced and it didn't help.
I have replaced this pc twice in the last 10 years.
I may need to replace it again. I am going to look at the other part in the link in the other post...maybe that needs to be replaced as well.
will look into this part, had a quick look under the hood and couldn't see the exact TYCO part, but there was a similar block. Mines about 10 years old so I'm sure something like this could be worn. New bulb hasn't changed anything.
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Old thread, I know. (But hey! I'm an OLD GUY!!!)
Croft, if you see this--or anyone else for that matter--I am having the exact same issue on an MSP 2125. Sometimes it strikes, other times nothing I can do works.
Occasionally it clicks many, then will FINALLY strike an arc.
I'd like to fix it on the cheap and throwing non-returnable, multiple hundred dollar parts at it is no bueno.
I'd even buy a decommissioned unit for parts, if I necessary
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There was a trick I read about to increase the duration on the vacuum timer. I had a couple strike failures and doing so seemed to improve the issue. I have no background on why this works, just that it did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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There was a trick I read about to increase the duration on the vacuum timer. I had a couple strike failures and doing so seemed to improve the issue. I have no background on why this works, just that it did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That just giving the bulb and any other components a longer time to cool down.
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funny we are having this issue also right now. and we replaced the bulb with no improvement.
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When the unit gets too hot it won't strike. Quite often it needs to be cooled down to strike. So extending the dwell on vacuum can help, or waiting a few minutes for the bulb to cool down. Happens on our Tri Light as well when I shoot a long exposure of thick film and try to shoot other screens as soon as it is done.
Al
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oh. our dwell time is like half now because we are using a CTS and no glass. we are shooting the screens in around 35 LTU - i know thats not a time measurement haha. on small prints sometimes its back to back to back. so maybe that is the issue. idk.
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Exactly the same as us, we are now CTS with no glass or draw down time. We have to wait between every exposure for things to cool since exposure is faster than the printer is now. New bulb has not helped, and I suspect a major cause is the fact I cut a slot in the front for a tray to slide screens in right under the glass. That slot has caused air flow issues so i will probably come up with a gate of some kind to keep the positive air flow inside the exposure box while exposing. I am also considering adding an extra cooling fan on the side of the box tied into the exposure circuit to activate while exposing to help cool it off faster. I really need the machine to fire right away since with the CTS we are pushing out screens so much faster.
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There was a trick I read about to increase the duration on the vacuum timer. I had a couple strike failures and doing so seemed to improve the issue. I have no background on why this works, just that it did.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That just giving the bulb and any other components a longer time to cool down.
Gotcha. I thought I remembered it being a bit more mysterious than that. Found the original post and I apparently stopped reading comments too soon. Derp.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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My tech said its not supposed to cycle more than once every 90 seconds
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I have a similar question... I just added a triloc to my msp3140. The strike is fine but the lumen counter is moving way faster than it used to. DO I have to adjust the sensor so that it is not catching a reflection off the frame holder? It used to take about a minute to count down form .8. Now it is happening in about 8 seconds.
Any advise is appreciated.
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I have a similar question... I just added a triloc to my msp3140. The strike is fine but the lumen counter is moving way faster than it used to. DO I have to adjust the sensor so that it is not catching a reflection off the frame holder? It used to take about a minute to count down form .8. Now it is happening in about 8 seconds.
Any advise is appreciated.
If I read it right you are saying the count down after vacuum is taking longer? I believe the count down does not start till the correct HG is reached, in otherwords if it is not getting to the correct vacuum pressure as fast as it did pre tri loc then it will take longer. You just have to play around with the ropes to promote faster pull down.
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I have a similar question... I just added a triloc to my msp3140. The strike is fine but the lumen counter is moving way faster than it used to. DO I have to adjust the sensor so that it is not catching a reflection off the frame holder? It used to take about a minute to count down form .8. Now it is happening in about 8 seconds.
Any advise is appreciated.
If I read it right you are saying the count down after vacuum is taking longer? I believe the count down does not start till the correct HG is reached, in otherwords if it is not getting to the correct vacuum pressure as fast as it did pre tri loc then it will take longer. You just have to play around with the ropes to promote faster pull down.
It is the exact opposite problem. After the vacuum is done the exposing counter counts down WAY faster than it used to... It is so strange.
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I have a similar question... I just added a triloc to my msp3140. The strike is fine but the lumen counter is moving way faster than it used to. DO I have to adjust the sensor so that it is not catching a reflection off the frame holder? It used to take about a minute to count down form .8. Now it is happening in about 8 seconds.
Any advise is appreciated.
If I read it right you are saying the count down after vacuum is taking longer? I believe the count down does not start till the correct HG is reached, in otherwords if it is not getting to the correct vacuum pressure as fast as it did pre tri loc then it will take longer. You just have to play around with the ropes to promote faster pull down.
It is the exact opposite problem. After the vacuum is done the exposing counter counts down WAY faster than it used to... It is so strange.
put some dark tape on the screen and see what happens. You could also try with and without the screen and see if the screen makes the difference.
pierre
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This tread wandered off point just a bit, but no matter. ;)
After MUCH more experimenting, I have determined the cause of my particular Failure To Strike (MSP2125) was 2 fold:
1) My main contactor is old and needed refreshing or replacement. I ordered one, but in the mean time was able to completely disassemble my old one to clean up* the contacts. Things were much improved, BUT
2) I am experiencing too much heat for a proper re-strike and simply waiting or adding another 30 seconds of vacuum (dwell) seems to be the solution. Simply can't rush the re-strike as Alan and others have mentioned....at least not on my NuArc. I've modded my unit, which was designed for manual frames. I did it to accept screens for my auto, and that is complicating the issue.
It only took 3+ years for me to fully understand how.
(Slaps forehead sharply)
PS *Disassembly and re-assembly of my contactor took some courage. The tiny springs can go SPROING!! so darned easily and never EVER be seen again.
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Keep your eyes open at the industrial surplus companies. We got an Amerigraph 755 that can shoot 23x31's 2 at a time for I think $1600 with shipping. It's an awesome unit. I did have to fix some light leakage from the vents, I just stuffed them with gutter filter foam. Blocks the light and it still breaths. The unit never overheats and does screens in about 15 seconds.
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I too have had similar issues in the past. first time I removed and cleaned all the connections i could that fixed it first time second time the bulb went out, replaced the bulb good to go. But check and clean your connections. Un plug it first.
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Is there a glass cover over the bulb? I removed mine and put a feather fan blowing towards hood, this really helped.
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Is there a glass cover over the bulb? I removed mine and put a feather fan blowing towards hood, this really helped.
Be very careful in regards to handling electrical components, there is large capacitor in the cabinet that would spin you in circles for week if you got hold of it ;-)
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If you open the covers it has magnets that deactivate the machine
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Anyone out there ever have excessive strike failures on the MSP 3140 and fix it.
This has always happened since new , I adjusted the the voltage on it as directed with little success. Usually it will go through spats of always throwing the failure but then will work well for few.
Now it seems we shoot a screen go to rinse , rinse completely then come back to shoot the next screen and still it will strike fail a couple of times before it lights up.
Its particularly hi lighted now since we got a new Starlight but still need to use this or at least have it working to sell.
Any help would be appreciated
We had this exact issue but before I started working here. We ruled out everything else (discussed here), and we found the solution. Our owner has all of the details. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you his a name and number.
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If you open the covers it has magnets that deactivate the machine
This may be true but a capacitor can hold a charge for months.
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If you open the covers it has magnets that deactivate the machine
This may be true but a capacitor can hold a charge for months.
They sure can. No matter how old I always treat them as charged.
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Its recommended to use a resistor of a certain size on a wire between the two terminals to discharge one, but I always just use a screw driver for the pretty arc it gives off.
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If you open the covers it has magnets that deactivate the machine
The cover off deactivation will not remove the energy held in the capacitor that's why there are Shock Warning stickers inside cabinet.
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Its recommended to use a resistor of a certain size on a wire between the two terminals to discharge one, but I always just use a screw driver for the pretty arc it gives off.
i have a 5 or 10 watt ceramic resistor (i forget the ohms value) that i use to discharge capacitors when i work on my guitar tube amps. its fairly inexpensive - should be under a dollar. the ceramic resistors handle heat a bit easier than other types.
use this type of test lead/alligator clip to connect
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX25HFX/ref=twister_B07F1C31SB?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XX25HFX/ref=twister_B07F1C31SB?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)