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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: ebscreen on December 13, 2011, 01:21:40 PM
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So we've been using the same Delitainers that we use for plastisol to mix discharge.
They're nice, but I'm wondering if there is something better. We can usually only
get 2-3 uses out of them before they get scratched up and dingy.
I know that metals and discharge are a no no, but I'm wondering if some nice stainless
mixing containers would be attacked in the lifetime of a discharge ink, 4-6 hours or so.
I'd really like to just have a set of ten or so that are easily cleaned and reusable forever.
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I don't know about metal, but how about some sort of glass container?
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I was wondering that as well. Nice Pyrex mixing containers. I personally don't get
along very well with glass though. I've run through it, had sheets of it dropped on my head,
got it in my eyeball, etc.
Supposedly 316 stainless is hard to beat for corrosion resistance. I'd hate to find out though.
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Yeah, I would be pretty nervous about trying it in metal. I hear you about the glass, however, Pyrex is probably the way to go, that stuff is pretty tough. Mason jars come to mind too, but they're a bit more fragile than Pyrex and whatnot...
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Black vapor locks perhaps? Also, us plastic makes a super cheap but sturdy set of clear jars. They aren't vapor tight but seal up pretty good.
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We've been using these, I like them because the screw lids seal well. We use them for WB mixes and discharge.
http://www.uline.com/BL_8176/White-Round-Wide-Mouth-Jars (http://www.uline.com/BL_8176/White-Round-Wide-Mouth-Jars)
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Supposedly 316 stainless is hard to beat for corrosion resistance. I'd hate to find out though.
My experience is that the today's Stainless steel itself is fine, it's the damn inclusions in the cheap stuff that corrode and even disappear when the right stuff comes in contact.
I have ended up with pinholes in thermos bottles and measuring cups.
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What you putting in your Thermos Andy?
One hell of a cup of coffee.
I think I'll get a couple and dump some ink in them and let them sit overnight then print
some rags just to be sure. I've seen some gnarly stuff in stainless.
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What you putting in your Thermos Andy?
I was wondering the same thing. Thought my morning brew was tough but it ain't burning holes through the thermos.
These are the containers I just got in, cheaper than the similar ones I got before and very nice for the price.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=66719&catid=604 (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=66719&catid=604)
We only have a couple of quarts of textile wb in the house right now but a pretty big spread of TW flatstock inks and I like the black vapor locks for those best.
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The thermos was just regular foods and beverages over time, rusting through the contaminated speck.
The measuring cup was an almost instant fail with a diluted peroxide mixture, once again, just the tiny impurity went bye bye, (only visible when held to a light)
The good thing about the measuring cup was the damage was made instantly apparent by the subsequent leak. The thermos merely lost efficiency and started to stink as the former vacuum chamber was breached and took on various liquids.
The bottom line, is that some crappy stainless can contain impurities that don't share its resistance to corrosion.
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Those do look nice.
Main issue is that discharge has a shelf life so the same container can be used over and
over. All plastics (we've tried them all) eventually scuff up and get grody. Right now after being
used for discharge our containers are downgraded to lowly plastisol use.
In the beer industry I learned all about the various stainless grades. Stainless China isn't a city.
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Keep digging around that plastics catalog, they have labware and some of that has got to be formaldehyde resistant and vapor tight but likely a little pricey.
Problem with glass is that it would be absolutely horrifying every time you dropped that jar. I drop ink jars all the time when slippery after wiping them down. But you could just wrap in duct tape I suppose.
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This is a great subject and something I must look into for our shop. Every other month I head to the transfer station (aka Dump) to properly dispose of discharge waste and the plastic containers. Seattle lets up to 200 pounds a month for free so that is great for us. However, I feel like a dolt bringing in all these plastic containers. We have a 5 gallon bucket for the leftover discharge ink we scoop out of mixing cups, but those cups add up quick. Can't throw them in the garbage, and after a couple of uses they just don't hold up. So yeah, we need to switch to stainless steel or something. I am gonna' head to the restaurant supply store this weekend and see what I can find. Should be awesome. Don't know why I didn't think of this before since that is where we get a lot of our supplies like the squeeze bottles.
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It's not the chemical resistance so much, but the abrasiveness of mixing tools and ink knives, etc that makes
the containers start to get grody. Discharge agent is a bit like sand at first as well.
Let me know how it goes Brandon and I'll do the same. I'm thinking old fashioned milkshake machine type containers.
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It's not the chemical resistance so much, but the abrasiveness of mixing tools and ink knives, etc that makes
the containers start to get grody. Discharge agent is a bit like sand at first as well.
Let me know how it goes Brandon and I'll do the same. I'm thinking old fashioned milkshake machine type containers.
Sounds like you have your new mixing method figured too! And a possible side business.
Remember to be a real traditional fountain shake or malt, a glass smaller than the mixing container must be used. A real psychological gimmick.
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Not related to the container search, but I picked up one of these stainless jobs a few days ago from Mcmaster. It mixes discharge way better than any other mixer I've tried, makes the ink tumble. It's easy to clean with a hose, wouldn't use it for plastisol though ;D
(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6254/img1516n.jpg)
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Wow. That looks effing awesome. Add it to the McMaster list. Man I could geek out on that place forever.
My buddy is building a rapid fire golf ball shooter right now. I'll see what he needs.
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I used the small, lidless mixing containers from Tap Plastics for smaller batches of discharge. Since I know the ink is a goner after 8 hours, no need for a lid. They are graduated on the outside but the inside is smooth and easy to clean, plus they are cheap.
For larger batches, I'd pre-mix the ink and activate it in smaller batches. I buy these screw lid pint and quart food containers from Target for larger mixes. (nicest ones I've found)
All the used discharge goes into gallon buckets, then off to the transfer station haz mat building every couple of months.
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We've been using these, I like them because the screw lids seal well. We use them for WB mixes and discharge.
[url]http://www.uline.com/BL_8176/White-Round-Wide-Mouth-Jars[/url] ([url]http://www.uline.com/BL_8176/White-Round-Wide-Mouth-Jars[/url])
We use these also for all of our inks! They are great.
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Might have to try those out for plastisol. I've got enough Delitainers (http://www.webstaurantstore.com/32-oz-newspring-yl2532-delitainer-clear-round-deli-container-combo-pack-240-cs/128YL2532%20%20%20COMBO240.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping) to last through the apocalypse though.
One thing I try and do to minimize waste is run jobs for the day in an order that allows recycling leftovers from the previous job.
IE say we're running a job with a canary yellow and a golden yellow. Run the canary first then bump it with a little scarlet and
run the golden. Doesn't always work out, and it's probably not the best priority to schedule jobs on, but every little bit we can do helps.
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It's not the chemical resistance so much, but the abrasiveness of mixing tools and ink knives, etc that makes
the containers start to get grody. Discharge agent is a bit like sand at first as well.
Let me know how it goes Brandon and I'll do the same. I'm thinking old fashioned milkshake machine type containers.
Will do. Still trying to make it down there. We just got bent over and reamed hard by one of our vendors. 8,000 print order due asap ordered three days ago and they just NOW call to tell me they forgot to ship it. How in the world does that happen? Will not be using them again for awhile. Take our business somewhere else.
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As a vendor how in hell do you forget to ship an order like that!!! they must mot need money WOW
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As a vendor how in hell do you forget to ship an order like that!!! they must mot need money WOW
Exactly. They are rolling deep apparently.
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brandon, that's insane. They better be making it up to you guys. No call or nothing for three days on an order of that size...yeargh.
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brandon, that's insane. They better be making it up to you guys. No call or nothing for three days on an order of that size...yeargh.
Just got off the phone with them. Knocking off $200. Big whoop. Funny thing is they did this to us the beginning of the year on another several thousand piece order. We stopped using them for several months after we sent a formal complaint and a rep finally stopped by to see if we were still in business. Her mouth dropped when she saw how busy we were and heard our numbers. Well, time to take away our business again from them. See how long it takes for them to stop by this time. Oh well, another day another shirt, right?
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Finally got some stainless steel mixing cups for the discharge. Sweet. Only 5 bucks a cup. Can't wait to get them into the mix. Should stop a lot of wasted plastic mixing cups and also a ton of cash a year. Those ain't cheap! And they even have gallon sized ones as well
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Test test test. Discharge is corrosive.... Let us know what happens. I think worst
case scenario the reaction disables the discharge agent. Or you end up with metal particles
in your ink.
I haven't been able to get around to testing my milkshake cups yet, hopefully
early next year.
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Test test test. Discharge is corrosive.... Let us know what happens. I think worst
case scenario the reaction disables the discharge agent. Or you end up with metal particles
in your ink.
I haven't been able to get around to testing my milkshake cups yet, hopefully
early next year.
Oh yeah. Won't be used for real runs for awhile. Gotta check out how different colors and shirt brands react. Metal particles in our ink. Awesome. All the death/black/thrash/doom metal bands we print for would just loooove that!
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Brandon, was it a blank shirt vendor? PM me who it was because I had some huge issues with one this year, and I'd like to know if it was them.
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Sending over the info right now...
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So we started using the stainless steel containers for mixing our discharge. Just trying to cut down on needless waste of plastic mixing containers.
If you do several mixes of discharge a day times 5 days a week times 52 weeks a year that is a lot of waste of plastic. But with testing we have not noticed any problems with any job so far. And leaving the ink in the container we have not had any corrosive issues. But then again I should probably consult a chemist in reality. Just throwing out some info for anyone else interested.
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I brought a large cerial bowl (clay) to work for a little breakfast one day. The guys in back found it and they mix discharge in it now. They also used the spoon.
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haha, that's funny. ceramic would be perfect for mixing discharge. if it was fired it would clean out super easy too. hmmm. the dollar store might be a good bet.