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Heat Seal - Heat Press - Whatever you want to call it! => General Heat Seal => Topic started by: Sbrem on January 14, 2020, 05:40:58 PM
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I'm having a little trouble finding a replacement thermostat for our old Insta 221; it's a B10 type, (analog, not digital) goes up to 465°, 120v. The platen resistance is around 12 ohms (which I haven't checked yet, I'm just taking it for granted, is was correct the last time I replaced this thermostat about 8 years ago). I need someone with a little more knowledge than I to help me pick out a replacement. The model is B10 (but that really seems to be a type, not an official model #) and the other numbers stamped on it do not bring up any info. Now, Insta has them for $190.00, but I know they are considerably less out there. Anyone?
Steve
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Was in same boat and couldn't find a direct replacement that would fit so swapped in a PID controller/thermocouple and SSR.
Super simple and less than $20 for a more accurate control/readout.
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Cool, but PID Controllers is bringing up until for hundreds of dollars, could you give me a little more on that?
Steve
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This kit (https://www.ebay.com/itm/PID-REX-C100-Temperature-Controller-set-SSR-40DA-K-Thermocouple-Heat-Sink/352555855067?epid=801740921&hash=item5215f76cdb:g:xTQAAOSwySZcCFME) should work assuming panel draws less than 40 amps.
Might seem complicated but it's really very simple, let me know if you need a diagram I'll draw something up.
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it's 1750 watts, 120v, and according to somebody smarter than me, watts divided by volts = amps, so 14.58...
I'm guessing I can cut the hole for mounting it, but I'm not sure about the thermocouple, here's a pic of the thermostat. The left side of the pic is the top of the unit, the thermostat is mounted onto the front panel.
Steve
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Thermocouples come in a million different mounting styles, the simplest being literally bare nichrome wire soldered together at the end.
Assuming there is a port for the copper style you have now, just find one that you can fit in. Not a critical piece, the temps/thermal mass are
typically stable enough to not need super responsive measurements.
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So as I dig a little more, I'm looking for a simple single loop, that will take a Type K thermocouple, with an input range that includes 120v (100 to 240 VAC 50 / 60 Hz) and can handle the 14.58 amps. I'm looking at one right now that shows all of that, but I don't know how to figure if it can handle the current or not (I don't completely understand the spec sheet) Add a thermocouple that's similar to what's in there now, and an SSR, and start replacing?
Steve
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So as I dig a little more, I'm looking for a simple single loop, that will take a Type K thermocouple, with an input range that includes 120v (100 to 240 VAC 50 / 60 Hz) and can handle the 14.58 amps. I'm looking at one right now that shows all of that, but I don't know how to figure if it can handle the current or not (I don't completely understand the spec sheet) Add a thermocouple that's similar to what's in there now, and an SSR, and start replacing?
Steve
Very close.
The SSR does your switching so that will be the current handling device. 20 amps should be common value.
120 volt input on the PID just makes powering it easier.
If you have a link I can verify.
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Just curious, have u checked with them directly?
P: 800-426-3609
E: service@instagraph.com
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Never mind, I see they had it for high dollars..........good luck
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So as I dig a little more, I'm looking for a simple single loop, that will take a Type K thermocouple, with an input range that includes 120v (100 to 240 VAC 50 / 60 Hz) and can handle the 14.58 amps. I'm looking at one right now that shows all of that, but I don't know how to figure if it can handle the current or not (I don't completely understand the spec sheet) Add a thermocouple that's similar to what's in there now, and an SSR, and start replacing?
Steve
Very close.
The SSR does your switching so that will be the current handling device. 20 amps should be common value.
120 volt input on the PID just makes powering it easier.
If you have a link I can verify.
This is one, most of the specs seemed simple enough, I just can't figure if it delivers enough current to the platen...
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/process_control_-a-_measurement/temperature_-z-_process_controllers/solo_basic_temperature_controllers/slb4848-v2?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjfvwBRCkARIsAIqSWlOG_4qG-eJ0Qx2KAoNTnHaJiPhT4X7Z2bOBbmShqxFLYJ0BLOLcFXMaAidlEALw_wcB (https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/shopping/catalog/process_control_-a-_measurement/temperature_-z-_process_controllers/solo_basic_temperature_controllers/slb4848-v2?gclid=Cj0KCQiAjfvwBRCkARIsAIqSWlOG_4qG-eJ0Qx2KAoNTnHaJiPhT4X7Z2bOBbmShqxFLYJ0BLOLcFXMaAidlEALw_wcB)
Steve
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Specs on that are fine, just add 20 amp SSR and K type thermocouple.
Or find one of those kits with appropriate style thermocouple.
FWIW I'm putting Automationdirect's kids through college.
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At this point, my questions are 1. can I snip the thermocouple lead going into our current analog thermostat and use it since it's already instatlled? And 2. is which Control Setup to use, though I'm pretty sure it's the PID Control Setup. I'm having a little trouble understanding those directions, but I keep getting interrupted. I could always tell the vendor what I'm working on and I'll bet they could help me, I have found a lot of those folks to be pretty helpful.
Steve
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At this point, my questions are 1. can I snip the thermocouple lead going into our current analog thermostat and use it since it's already instatlled? And 2. is which Control Setup to use, though I'm pretty sure it's the PID Control Setup. I'm having a little trouble understanding those directions, but I keep getting interrupted. I could always tell the vendor what I'm working on and I'll bet they could help me, I have found a lot of those folks to be pretty helpful.
Steve
1. No, completely different style. Copper style literally transfers heat to a coil in the thermostat that physically opens and closes contacts.
Which is why they fail relatively quickly.
2. They should be able to help. I'll draw up a diagram when I get a chance. Dealing with NFC championship blanks today...
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Being 20 miles outside of Boston, I can feel your pain, as we printed for all of the Pats runs since 2004, Celtics in 2008, and the Bruins in 2011. We got to a point where we could no longer put a crew together, and we were forced to move 2 years ago, so no more hot market for us.
Thanks for the help on this, you've saved me a couple hours of diving for info online. I did take the press apart back in 2011 when I replaced the thermostat then, and had to run the thermocouple then, so I'm guessing there a channel of something for a new one to lay in.
So why not get a new one? Hoping to retire in 3 years at the worst, and don't want to spend any more money than I have to. Unless a super bargain shows up on Craigslist.
Steve
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This will be our 4th event. I really only say yes as it's a break in our regularly scheduled programming.
The majority of profit goes right to the employees, so they like it at least.
I personally hate seeing easily repaired stuff end up in a waste stream. It's kind of gnarly to think of the literal
mountains of keyboards or smartphones that must be out there.
Attached is a very crude schematic, but hopefully gets idea across. PID terminal numbers should be correct,
but double check obviously. SSR has an LED to let you know when it's closed.
Get the kit I linked above plus one of these thermocouples (https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/digilent-inc/240-080/1286-1099-ND/5418219).
Hook it up and let it rip. If the reading goes down as heat goes up thermocouple wires are reversed. Those are the only connections where polarity matters.
Shouldn't require any programming save setting the temp swing. (recommend 5 degrees to avoid rapid switching.)
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Ordered, should arrive next week, thanks for all the help, though I may be back once it all arrives.
Steve
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I put a PID device on an old 120v dryer I had a few years ago. While the draw was only 15A, I opted for the 40A relay as a precaution (it must be more robust, right??). I purchased the “kit” from Amazon. Something you may consider once you get it up and running. Relay cost difference was negligible.
Terry
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I put a PID device on an old 120v dryer I had a few years ago. While the draw was only 15A, I opted for the 40A relay as a precaution (it must be more robust, right??). I purchased the “kit” from Amazon. Something you may consider once you get it up and running. Relay cost difference was negligible.
Terry
I agree with Terry..... I swapped out the SS relays on an M&R Econo-Max, last year.
The old relays were 75 Amp devices switching a 30 amp load.
I used 75 amps relays to make the repair and the cost difference between 40a and 75a insignificant.
And yes.... I used fresh conductive paste between the heat-sink and relay.
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I ordered the kit; now I've worked on a drawing based on what I have inside the cover now, (power switch and thermostat) and the layout EB drew for me, and a slightly more
visual one for me. I'm not an electrician, but I can do simple things, and have swapped out lots of parts over a long career as a screenprinter. I usually get some advice from folks like us here, and then forge ahead. I'll post my finished drawing just to see if anyone catches something wrong...
Steve
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I assembled mine on a bench with wiring, etc. just to make sure it worked and to figure out my wiring harness - prior to cutting any wiring on my device.
Used a DVOM to confirm proper operation.
Terry
http://www.AllegiantGraphics.com
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https://www.Instagram.com/AllegiantGraphics
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I assembled mine on a bench with wiring, etc. just to make sure it worked and to figure out my wiring harness - prior to cutting any wiring on my device.
Used a DVOM to confirm proper operation.
Terry
[url]http://www.AllegiantGraphics.com[/url] ([url]http://www.AllegiantGraphics.com[/url])
[url]https://www.Facebook.com/AllegiantGraphics[/url] ([url]https://www.Facebook.com/AllegiantGraphics[/url])
[url]https://www.Instagram.com/AllegiantGraphics[/url] ([url]https://www.Instagram.com/AllegiantGraphics[/url])
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Good thought, I do that as well. I hate taking stuff apart because I crossed a wire or have a screw left over.
Steve
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By the way, it's up and working just fine. Many thanks to Sean at East Bay Screenprint for electrical advice, and showing me the link to the parts on eBay. $18.00 was a lot better than $190.00 that Insta wanted, and it's a much better thermostat.
Steve