TSB
screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: ebscreen on February 06, 2020, 11:14:03 AM
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We have a number of jobs that seem like we print almost weekly. Some of them high color count, and during tours,
constantly rotating.
We've never stocked screens because in my early days as a press op re-using "old" screens always grossed me out. But now I'm seeing
the amount of effort going into making new ones for every run and it seems a bit much.
I'm considering one of two options:
1. Store screens exactly as they come off press, IE leave taped but pull majority of ink. Our reg system is good enough
that if we paid extra attention (or even stored readouts and used same heads) we could just reload and go. Most labor
saving/economical option but also least cleanly.
2. Pull ink/tape and wipe down with press wash. This is probably what we'll end up doing, seems like a good tradeoff between the above
and re-making entirely new.
One concern I have is emulsion breakdown. We use bulletproof SP-1400 and expose it on 8k MH so the dudes are tough, but constantly
printing/cleaning/printing/cleaning is going to wear anyone down. Would permanent hardener help in this situation? I've never used it.
We use roller frames exclusively so re-meshing when she's done for isn't that big of an issue.
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I have screens I re use. I don't like storing screens with plastisol on them, prefer washing off color and retaping.
Never used hardener, if I have very big runs I sometimes post expose in the sun and use filler to stop pinholes.
I use PHU but your emulsion and lamp should be excellent.
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I have screens I re use. I don't like storing screens with plastisol on them, prefer washing off color and retaping.
Never used hardener, if I have very big runs I sometimes post expose in the sun and use filler to stop pinholes.
I use PHU but your emulsion and lamp should be excellent.
I appreciate the input.
Are you washing ink fully in the booth with water etc, or just a rag wipedown with press wash?
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Use Murakami A&B Hardener for permanent screens on SP1400. Mix equal amounts and use within 24hrs. Apply to both sides like you are waxing a car and use a hot box or sun to heat the screen. Heat improves the hardener's effect. An 8k lamp? yeah that will definitely give you complete exposure and eliminate a lot of headaches. We had to library many of our jobs and found cleaning the ink off a big plus. Workers liked handling them over ones with ink that eventually migrates everywhere and can pick up a lot of dust during storage.
Al
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Use Murakami A&B Hardener for permanent screens on SP1400. Mix equal amounts and use within 24hrs. Apply to both sides like you are waxing a car and use a hot box or sun to heat the screen. Heat improves the hardener's effect. An 8k lamp? yeah that will definitely give you complete exposure and eliminate a lot of headaches. We had to library many of our jobs and found cleaning the ink off a big plus. Workers liked handling them over ones with ink that eventually migrates everywhere and can pick up a lot of dust during storage.
Al
Excellent, thanks. I'll get some hardener on order and give this a whirl. At least the screen gal will be happy(er).
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At Andy's, we kept hundreds (if not thousands) of screens for the pre-print line, all cleaned, (many by yours truly), but not with a dip tank.
I can not imagine the mess if they were still inky.
As a side note, these screens were cleaned using Xylene which I believe also had the off-label effect of hardening screens, especially screens which were a little underexposed.
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At Andy's, we kept hundreds (if not thousands) of screens for the pre-print line, all cleaned, (many by yours truly), but not with a dip tank.
I can not imagine the mess if they were still inky.
As a side note, these screens were cleaned using Xylene which I believe also had the off-label effect of hardening screens, especially screens which were a little underexposed.
Ron was just regaling me on the joys of xylene use the other day. That's one old-school aspect of this industry that I'm glad to have missed.
At the very least it seems like you would want a solvent with a bit more "open" time for what we do.
Unless I'm mistaken, hardeners are typically acids, though I'm not sure about the permanent stuff as we've never used it.
I do recall vinyl flatstock screens being very difficult to reclaim though, having been cleaned with the "safe" acetone alternative.
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Customers that I know are going to reorder pretty regular I don't remove any tape I just clean all the ink out the screens and store than, but after so much use I will reclaim them and refresh them. Just seem like to much to reburn if they are going to reorder in a few weeks.
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That's just it right, you never know what is going to be re-ordered. Tour stuff we're pretty sure on, but back dates
change, and sometimes what you think will sell a million sells five.
About like washing your car and rain I suppose.
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I get your point and been there also, big seller the first time second time alright third time lousy, some customer I just about know they will re-order so I tell them I will keep the screens for a few weeks and after that they get washed out and a re-setup fee is charged. Cleaning the ink out the screens while there on press and a little more cleaning after we remove them from the press is what we do, saves on tape and emulsion at least that is my thinking.
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We remove tape and wash the ink off in the sink.
With a 8 k lamp and good emulsion you shouldn’t need a hardener
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small tidbit to always remember:
If your mesh is not work hardened or close to it, over time it can/will relax and loose more tension. This can make really tight registration difficult as the image can start to distort from the relaxation of the mesh. This is most noticeable on taller designs or with fine dot on dot/fine line type work.
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small tidbit to always remember:
If your mesh is not work hardened or close to it, over time it can/will relax and loose more tension. This can make really tight registration difficult as the image can start to distort from the relaxation of the mesh. This is most noticeable on taller designs or with fine dot on dot/fine line type work.
Good point, not something I had even thought of. That would suck if it relaxed and the emulsion had been permanently hardened.
The type of jobs I'm considering this for are indeed both fine line and oversize...
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As mentioned above the two part hardener works very well for us with regards to certain clients. We usually get about 6 to 8 production runs out of them. Also mentioned above yes screen tension can fall and that's it. Pop it and make a new screen. The emulsion ain't coming off.
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We have a couple of customers that constantly reorder, so we do keep those most popular jobs on hand. A number of years ago we used an autotype hardener, I recall is was pinkish in color, and you applied with a paint brush. The open mesh of the image would evaporate, and the emulsion was pretty permanent. We tried reclaiming one, and it simply wasn't worth the time to get it done. So, yes, they work, at least that one did.
Steve
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We have a number of jobs that seem like we print almost weekly. Some of them high color count, and during tours,
constantly rotating.
We've never stocked screens because in my early days as a press op re-using "old" screens always grossed me out. But now I'm seeing
the amount of effort going into making new ones for every run and it seems a bit much.
I'm considering one of two options:
1. Store screens exactly as they come off press, IE leave taped but pull majority of ink. Our reg system is good enough
that if we paid extra attention (or even stored readouts and used same heads) we could just reload and go. Most labor
saving/economical option but also least cleanly.
2. Pull ink/tape and wipe down with press wash. This is probably what we'll end up doing, seems like a good tradeoff between the above
and re-making entirely new.
One concern I have is emulsion breakdown. We use bulletproof SP-1400 and expose it on 8k MH so the dudes are tough, but constantly
printing/cleaning/printing/cleaning is going to wear anyone down. Would permanent hardener help in this situation? I've never used it.
We use roller frames exclusively so re-meshing when she's done for isn't that big of an issue.
This may be a dumb question but I’ve never had MH as I went straight from home built to LED. Are the only 8k units made in a vertical format or are there some made in a format similar to the 3140?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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We have a number of jobs that seem like we print almost weekly. Some of them high color count, and during tours,
constantly rotating.
We've never stocked screens because in my early days as a press op re-using "old" screens always grossed me out. But now I'm seeing
the amount of effort going into making new ones for every run and it seems a bit much.
I'm considering one of two options:
1. Store screens exactly as they come off press, IE leave taped but pull majority of ink. Our reg system is good enough
that if we paid extra attention (or even stored readouts and used same heads) we could just reload and go. Most labor
saving/economical option but also least cleanly.
2. Pull ink/tape and wipe down with press wash. This is probably what we'll end up doing, seems like a good tradeoff between the above
and re-making entirely new.
One concern I have is emulsion breakdown. We use bulletproof SP-1400 and expose it on 8k MH so the dudes are tough, but constantly
printing/cleaning/printing/cleaning is going to wear anyone down. Would permanent hardener help in this situation? I've never used it.
We use roller frames exclusively so re-meshing when she's done for isn't that big of an issue.
This may be a dumb question but I’ve never had MH as I went straight from home built to LED. Are the only 8k units made in a vertical format or are there some made in a format similar to the 3140?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Ours is a horizontal standalone unit. We can burn 23x31's 3 up.
With all the variables in what we do it's nice to essentially completely eliminate at least that one.
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Ours is a horizontal standalone unit. We can burn 23x31's 3 up.
With all the variables in what we do it's nice to essentially completely eliminate at least that one.
Mind me asking what unit you have?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You can get about anything you want. I had a 5K, wanted an 8K. My vacuum table (pre CTS would image 5 23x31 frames at once.
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Mind me asking what unit you have?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Richland or something, it's not mass produced at any rate. Well made, kinda tall, has a
beast of a vacuum pump.
The light itself is an Olec AL-83, but more importantly it has the external cooling option.
Literal powered vents up and out the ceiling. Heats effect on electronics is frequently ignored
by manufacturers, IE the two $400 chokes we had to replace on our 3140.
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2 part hardener will absolutely get you there, screens will typically break before the emulsion does in that case. 1 part may do it (yes HCL for the 1 part I believe) as well. As mentioned, you probably don't need either. We only use 2 part for ultra long jobs where we have multiple sets of hardened screens due to the size and turnaround needed.
If we were doing it we'd clean off the ink.
More importantly, get ye workflow tuned up for this. Who makes the call to save a job? How does staff know it's saved/archived? How do they know which screens are stabilized enough to be used for saving a job. Do your films line up all the time when a single color needs reprinted or are you saving films with the screens...
If I tried this at my shop I'm pretty sure I know how I'd do it and I think it would look a lot like saving reference prints, which doesn't always look too good around here. You'll probably find your palm on your forehead a little more than usual in the first few weeks while screens are being shot that were available from the archive, non work-hardened screens are getting sent to permanent, re-shoot of one color from the 9 color job doesn't line up the rest, gotta teardown, burn again, reset, etc. More variables to this than it seems on the surface! Simple, sensible concept with a lot of workflow items needed to support it and actually make it outperform burning fresh screens.
Good for morale though if heavy rotation jobs are getting reshot on the weekly, nobody likes shooting the same job over an over- feels weird.
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It's funny that in 15 years I've never dabbled with permanent screens.
What brought this all to mind was seeing new/used screens of the same design crossing paths
in the screen room. Didn't seem right. Disapproving grunts from the darkroom confirmed it.
Luckily we can easily flag jobs by art code in our system. Have it notify us, or even completely
skip the pre-press section after mockup approval. That's precisely the kind of logistics I had in mind
when writing our db all those years ago.
That said......
We saved a set for one of the biggest offender jobs last week.
I saw them on the pallet rack.
They looked dingy and well, used.
I put them back in circulation.
Back to the drawing board.
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skip the pre-press section after mockup approval.
This is the way! Yer lucky to have a system that can do this. It should be a "pull from inventory" for the screen/pre press dept, just as it would be if you were pulling shirts from your own stock for an order.
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My one concern would be new date backs etc. I have nightmares of printing the wrong dates.
And it has never happened. Yet.