TSB
Direct to Garment => DTG Equipment => Topic started by: blue moon on July 01, 2020, 06:32:27 PM
-
As many here know, I was sold on the EPSON very early on, but I also promised to reach out before buying anything and give Brother a chance.
Jon Potter brought up some very good points about Brother so I decided to dig into it deeper.
For those that don’t want to read the whole thing, Brother is nice, but EPSON is better and cheaper to run.
Now, back to the story. . .
EPSON has some pretty amazing technology built in. The first step was making sure that the Brother was not behind and in any of the areas offered by EPSON.
-While the printers are not the same, they are very similar and white ink circulation/re-circulation was addressed in both units.
-bulk ink storage is used in both, but EPSON requires daily shaking of the white ink (probably the biggest negative it has) while Brother GTX Pro B has a small impeller that does that for you. Win one for Brother! On the other hand, Brother has to be refilled from a large bulk container and that does not really sound like a good idea. Swapping a bag with ink certainly sounds a lot cleaner if nothing else. We’ll call this a tie with an edge to Brother if ties were not allowed.
- One trick that EPSON has allows it to finish printing correctly even if a nozzle(s) clogs up. It is rather clever and will provide correct image even if there is a problem. Both printers have stellar designs to make sure there are no issues with clogging, but EPSON goes a step further and it assumes there will be clogs (which I wholeheartedly agree with based on our experience) and it figured out how to keep printing CORRECTLY even with heads not firing at 100%. Score EPSON.
-Similarly, Brother seems to have spent a lot of effort to design a new head that would be reliable and long lasting. EPSON has done the same, but then went a step further and made it work in any condition possible including low/high humidity and high dust and dirt. Their system is loosely based on technology used to print on roll fabric in industrial settings that has been around for almost 20 years. Their goal was to make it work anywhere. To me Brother feels like something designed for desktop/office environment and EPSON feels like something that belongs in a factory. I think this is a big departure from the current idea that the DTG needs to be in humidity, dust and temperature controlled environment. While those are available, for many of us that meant setting up in office space rather than on the production floor. I should not have to tell anybody reading this how much lint, dust and heat are produced by our dryers! EPSON supposedly will not care where it’s set up. If it proves to be true, advantage goes to EPSON.
-To really make it industrial, EPSON has designed the F3070 so any repairs are quick and easily done on site by the staff. For example, the head change is only 2-3 minutes and it’s user replaceable. I think Brother said something like 20 min for theirs which is really good, but still shows that EPSON F3070 is a step ahead. EPSON supposedly will ship replacement parts overnight. I am not sure what the Brother’s policy is, but they were proud of their customer support rating and it seems they have earned it. Overall customer satisfaction was the biggest reason Brother was even considered as an option. But in the end, EPSON wins as the design is more industrial which translates into easier repairs and maintenance.
-One new feature that BROTHER keeps bringing up is the high-low platen sensor. This is a good idea as we have had cases where we printed a shirt after a hoodie and forgot to adjust the distance. The print does not come out as crisp and often needs to be redone. BROTHER GTX Pro B has addressed that with a high and low platen sensor. If I understand correctly, and I did ask, after the warning, operator has to adjust the platen height. I have no idea how long that takes, but it's probably rather quick. EPSON on the other hand decided to take it a step further and the printer auto adjusts to the correct level! So the operator can feed a hood and then a t-shirt (or the other way around) without any other interactions needed. Printer reads the distance and self adjusts to the correct height. Score one for EPSON.
-One thing caught my eye on the EPSON. It has dedicated maintenance and cleaning solution tanks alongside the inks. As I understand these will reduce the amount of wasted ink when a head clearing or some other maintenance is required. Not sure if Brother has anything like it. There are only 5 containers in the images, but maybe there is an internal tank somewhere. No call here as I don’t know enough, but so far it looks like EPSON.
-Both printers are supposedly designed for a contract decorator, but BROTHER has a high cost of ink which on average costs $0.25 per shirt more than EPSON. I used the equipment, labor, speed and ink cost in the calculations and even presented it to BROTHER, but they were not willing to budge. Their ink cost is $170 per liter while EPSON is at $150. Additionally, Brother does not offer discounts on ink unless you buy 9! (yes, nine) units and EPSON is providing an ink discount at 2 and then at 5 again. For a large multi unit (contract) decorator, Brother ink is about 40% more expensive! Many of us will never need that many units, but I can see us using 2 easily. In that case Brother is 20% more. In our world a $0.30 difference in ink cost is more than the total margin on product and we just can NOT justify the extra expense. When asked, Brother leadership said they were OK with being more expensive as they bring other things to the table. They mentioned better tech, better service/relationship with customers and lack of integration with production software on the EPSON's side. I have a feeling they did not really understand what is inside the F3070 and that there are several companies out there that will integrate the EPSON F3070 into the complete production and fulfillment package (we are going with smake). As far as the service, Brother is taunting how good they are and by all accounts that seems to be the case. Complaints about Brother seem to be very rare I am not aware of any. That does not happen very often in this industry, there is always somebody with an issue. But this also presumes the EPSON service is sub par or somehow unacceptable. Even if it is not up to Brother’s level, EPSON has good service and takes care of its customers. So not an issue either. In the end, cost of ink trumps and slight service advantage Brother might have. EPSON tech seems to be better so we will chalk this one to EPSON.
-Speed. . . Brother lists 42 full front shirts per hour and EPSON says 80 or slightly more. That is about double! Speed on its own is not everything as in some cases it might be more than the employees can handle. Additionally, Bother is cheaper by a good amount which would bring the cost per shirt down if there wasn’t for the cost of ink. But for those of us that will be looking to print as many shirts as possible, EPSON has a leg up. It leaves more room to grow without having to buy another unit. On the other hand, two GTX Pro B’s will print at about the speed of one EPSON F3070, but will also provide redundancy. The problem is, two Brothers are more expensive than one EPSON. Considering that these printers are designed to run one, two or even three shifts per day at full speed, I feel that the EPSON is a better fit for such market. Brother requires you to print something like 1,500 shirts per month to justify buying the unit. If not, supposedly the ink goes bad since it has a 3 month shelf life and the containers they sell it in hold 4500 shirts worth of ink (as I understand it). In any case, EPSON is faster and cost of ownership per shirt if we don’t include the ink is about the same as Brother. Buying a Brother would be like getting a 6 color automatic press instead of an 8 color. Another one for EPSON.
-For anybody interested in EPSON’s garment decorating history, here is a video showing them working with Robustelli all the way back to 2001. My understanding is that the F3070 is like a mini Monna Lisa. Not sure how much technology transferred over to the F3070, but at least it shows they have a significant history of decorating fabric in industrial settings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-poLUYKmew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-poLUYKmew)
Please consider the information here as an opinion. Neither of the units is in regular production (Brother started shipping few weeks ago so a very limited number might be out and the EPSON is still about 4-6 weeks away from first units being delivered to the customers) and I have not used either of them. All the opinions are just that, opinions based on the conversations with the manufacturers and the manufacturer’s reps. In EPSON’s case I had an opportunity to go to their R&D lab and get some inside info. Some confidential knowledge was shared about the Brother by one of the beta testers/person involved in development. While only the time will tell which unit is more reliable and thus most likely the better choice, at this point they both look good, but EPSON just offers a bit more.
Pierre
-
please let me know if you see any gaping holes in the logic here. Any criticism (of the constructive kind) is very welcome. Since we have not yet placed the deposit, I will gladly order a Brother if it is the right choice (means I am a dumbass and missed something really important).
thanx,
pierre
-
this info rocks Pierre. thank you!
-
Thank you! Going down this road soon
-
Great write up, but what pre-treater are you getting it with?
Also what is the ballpark on cost of these?
If I were to get an entry level DTG, I like the Epson over anything else, however I still don't love the quality of DTG, and the industrial ones at 300k+ are too expensive for an ROI unless you can really automate your workflow and have the business which we do not.
Always interesting technology though, I missed this one at Impressions Expo, I saw the smaller ones but probably walked right by this bigger one as it looks the same!
-
Great write up, but what pre-treater are you getting it with?
Also what is the ballpark on cost of these?
If I were to get an entry level DTG, I like the Epson over anything else, however I still don't love the quality of DTG, and the industrial ones at 300k+ are too expensive for an ROI unless you can really automate your workflow and have the business which we do not.
Always interesting technology though, I missed this one at Impressions Expo, I saw the smaller ones but probably walked right by this bigger one as it looks the same!
there is whole other conversation in those few questions. We will keep pretreating with the Belquette unit we have for now.
F3070 and the GTX Pro B are really designed for very high use and are not a good choice unless many, many shirts are printed each day. For entry level F2100 or GTX are a better choice (except for their high ink cost). Brother is $35K and the EPSON is $50k. Neither of them seems to be willing to budge on the price of equipment or ink. I tried!
the $300K units are definitely not worth it. EPSON will print 75-80 shirts per hour for $50K. the $300K units only print 100-200.
pierre
-
the $300K units are definitely not worth it.
EPSON will print 75-80 shirts per hour for $50K. the $300K units only print 100-200.
Agreed!
I was interested in this one https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer (https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer) as it was around $30k but the lack of support and distributor made us not follow through. It was at ISS two years ago.
-
the $300K units are definitely not worth it.
EPSON will print 75-80 shirts per hour for $50K. the $300K units only print 100-200.
Agreed!
I was interested in this one (https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer) as it was around $30k but the lack of support and distributor made us not follow through. It was at ISS two years ago.
I dont see any attachment picture on app and web based nothing. which model? bluemoon what about omni print freejet 330 tx plus it does poly?
Shane
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
-
the $300K units are definitely not worth it.
EPSON will print 75-80 shirts per hour for $50K. the $300K units only print 100-200.
Agreed!
I was interested in this one (https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer) as it was around $30k but the lack of support and distributor made us not follow through. It was at ISS two years ago.
I dont see any attachment picture on app and web based nothing. which model? bluemoon what about omni print freejet 330 tx plus it does poly?
Shane
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Hey Shane,
don't know anything about that DTG, sorry. In general though, my understanding is that printing on poly does not really work regardless of what anybody says.
pierre
-
As many here know, I was sold on the EPSON very early on, but I also promised to reach out before buying anything and give Brother a chance.
Jon Potter brought up some very good points about Brother so I decided to dig into it deeper.
For those that don’t want to read the whole thing, Brother is nice, but EPSON is better and cheaper to run.
Now, back to the story. . .
EPSON has some pretty amazing technology built in. The first step was making sure that the Brother was not behind and in any of the areas offered by EPSON.
-While the printers are not the same, they are very similar and white ink circulation/re-circulation was addressed in both units.
-bulk ink storage is used in both, but EPSON requires daily shaking of the white ink (probably the biggest negative it has) while Brother GTX Pro B has a small impeller that does that for you. Win one for Brother! On the other hand, Brother has to be refilled from a large bulk container and that does not really sound like a good idea. Swapping a bag with ink certainly sounds a lot cleaner if nothing else. We’ll call this a tie with an edge to Brother if ties were not allowed.
- One trick that EPSON has allows it to finish printing correctly even if a nozzle(s) clogs up. It is rather clever and will provide correct image even if there is a problem. Both printers have stellar designs to make sure there are no issues with clogging, but EPSON goes a step further and it assumes there will be clogs (which I wholeheartedly agree with based on our experience) and it figured out how to keep printing CORRECTLY even with heads not firing at 100%. Score EPSON.
-Similarly, Brother seems to have spent a lot of effort to design a new head that would be reliable and long lasting. EPSON has done the same, but then went a step further and made it work in any condition possible including low/high humidity and high dust and dirt. Their system is loosely based on technology used to print on roll fabric in industrial settings that has been around for almost 20 years. Their goal was to make it work anywhere. To me Brother feels like something designed for desktop/office environment and EPSON feels like something that belongs in a factory. I think this is a big departure from the current idea that the DTG needs to be in humidity, dust and temperature controlled environment. While those are available, for many of us that meant setting up in office space rather than on the production floor. I should not have to tell anybody reading this how much lint, dust and heat are produced by our dryers! EPSON supposedly will not care where it’s set up. If it proves to be true, advantage goes to EPSON.
-To really make it industrial, EPSON has designed the F3070 so any repairs are quick and easily done on site by the staff. For example, the head change is only 2-3 minutes and it’s user replaceable. I think Brother said something like 20 min for theirs which is really good, but still shows that EPSON F3070 is a step ahead. EPSON supposedly will ship replacement parts overnight. I am not sure what the Brother’s policy is, but they were proud of their customer support rating and it seems they have earned it. Overall customer satisfaction was the biggest reason Brother was even considered as an option. But in the end, EPSON wins as the design is more industrial which translates into easier repairs and maintenance.
-One new feature that BROTHER keeps bringing up is the high-low platen sensor. This is a good idea as we have had cases where we printed a shirt after a hoodie and forgot to adjust the distance. The print does not come out as crisp and often needs to be redone. BROTHER GTX Pro B has addressed that with a high and low platen sensor. If I understand correctly, and I did ask, after the warning, operator has to adjust the platen height. I have no idea how long that takes, but it's probably rather quick. EPSON on the other hand decided to take it a step further and the printer auto adjusts to the correct level! So the operator can feed a hood and then a t-shirt (or the other way around) without any other interactions needed. Printer reads the distance and self adjusts to the correct height. Score one for EPSON.
-One thing caught my eye on the EPSON. It has dedicated maintenance and cleaning solution tanks alongside the inks. As I understand these will reduce the amount of wasted ink when a head clearing or some other maintenance is required. Not sure if Brother has anything like it. There are only 5 containers in the images, but maybe there is an internal tank somewhere. No call here as I don’t know enough, but so far it looks like EPSON.
-Both printers are supposedly designed for a contract decorator, but BROTHER has a high cost of ink which on average costs $0.25 per shirt more than EPSON. I used the equipment, labor, speed and ink cost in the calculations and even presented it to BROTHER, but they were not willing to budge. Their ink cost is $170 per liter while EPSON is at $150. Additionally, Brother does not offer discounts on ink unless you buy 9! (yes, nine) units and EPSON is providing an ink discount at 2 and then at 5 again. For a large multi unit (contract) decorator, Brother ink is about 40% more expensive! Many of us will never need that many units, but I can see us using 2 easily. In that case Brother is 20% more. In our world a $0.30 difference in ink cost is more than the total margin on product and we just can NOT justify the extra expense. When asked, Brother leadership said they were OK with being more expensive as they bring other things to the table. They mentioned better tech, better service/relationship with customers and lack of integration with production software on the EPSON's side. I have a feeling they did not really understand what is inside the F3070 and that there are several companies out there that will integrate the EPSON F3070 into the complete production and fulfillment package (we are going with smake). As far as the service, Brother is taunting how good they are and by all accounts that seems to be the case. Complaints about Brother seem to be very rare I am not aware of any. That does not happen very often in this industry, there is always somebody with an issue. But this also presumes the EPSON service is sub par or somehow unacceptable. Even if it is not up to Brother’s level, EPSON has good service and takes care of its customers. So not an issue either. In the end, cost of ink trumps and slight service advantage Brother might have. EPSON tech seems to be better so we will chalk this one to EPSON.
-Speed. . . Brother lists 42 full front shirts per hour and EPSON says 80 or slightly more. That is about double! Speed on its own is not everything as in some cases it might be more than the employees can handle. Additionally, Bother is cheaper by a good amount which would bring the cost per shirt down if there wasn’t for the cost of ink. But for those of us that will be looking to print as many shirts as possible, EPSON has a leg up. It leaves more room to grow without having to buy another unit. On the other hand, two GTX Pro B’s will print at about the speed of one EPSON F3070, but will also provide redundancy. The problem is, two Brothers are more expensive than one EPSON. Considering that these printers are designed to run one, two or even three shifts per day at full speed, I feel that the EPSON is a better fit for such market. Brother requires you to print something like 1,500 shirts per month to justify buying the unit. If not, supposedly the ink goes bad since it has a 3 month shelf life and the containers they sell it in hold 4500 shirts worth of ink (as I understand it). In any case, EPSON is faster and cost of ownership per shirt if we don’t include the ink is about the same as Brother. Buying a Brother would be like getting a 6 color automatic press instead of an 8 color. Another one for EPSON.
-For anybody interested in EPSON’s garment decorating history, here is a video showing them working with Robustelli all the way back to 2001. My understanding is that the F3070 is like a mini Monna Lisa. Not sure how much technology transferred over to the F3070, but at least it shows they have a significant history of decorating fabric in industrial settings.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-poLUYKmew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-poLUYKmew)
Please consider the information here as an opinion. Neither of the units is in regular production (Brother started shipping few weeks ago so a very limited number might be out and the EPSON is still about 4-6 weeks away from first units being delivered to the customers) and I have not used either of them. All the opinions are just that, opinions based on the conversations with the manufacturers and the manufacturer’s reps. In EPSON’s case I had an opportunity to go to their R&D lab and get some inside info. Some confidential knowledge was shared about the Brother by one of the beta testers/person involved in development. While only the time will tell which unit is more reliable and thus most likely the better choice, at this point they both look good, but EPSON just offers a bit more.
Pierre
I`m curious, are you already in the position where you know that you will be printing with the Epson day in day out or are you still at a stage where you print a couple of jobs a day only but want this to cover increase in orders over the next few month? We are as well in the market for an inkjet printer, would be our first one, and looking at the Brother GT-X. Not the Bulk Pro version though. But like you said there are a few things that leave room for improvement on the Brother printers. And even though the Epson is a lot more expensive then the GT-X and we have not yet an established DTG customer base I would see it as a purchase for busier days. I don`t like the idea of buying an entry model first and once it gets more busy upgrading to a pro printer.
-
Pierre what's the life expectancy of these units, more in time than units printed.
Taking into account how fast they are improving technology how long would you lease one of these for?
-
So brass tax - What's the realistic price per shirt to the end customer to make a reasonable profit? I understand there are multiple variables, but lets go with ballpark figures.
-
So brass tax - What's the realistic price per shirt to the end customer to make a reasonable profit? I understand there are multiple variables, but lets go with ballpark figures.
maxie brings up a great point. I used the 5 year lease, where it should probably be 3. I would imagine these would still be functional in 5 years, especially now that they are just being released, but something better will be out in about three years or so. On the other hand, I feel that the improvements going forward will have more to do with the software than the equipment. Yes, they will get better, but not to the point that we would want to throw the current generation out the window. GTX is 3 years old now and it is still a formidable piece of equipment.
So... back to the real question!
The cost of print per garment will vary and the biggest factor is how many shirts you print per week. My estimate is $200-$250 per week for the equipment, about $1 for the ink and some labor. at 100 per day the cost varies from $2 to $3 per print depending on the total qty per order. This takes into account the administrative overhead to receive and process the order and prep the art. This is also with a 5 year payment plan.
pierre
-
Please consider the information here as an opinion. Neither of the units is in regular production (Brother started shipping few weeks ago so a very limited number might be out and the EPSON is still about 4-6 weeks away from first units being delivered to the customers) and I have not used either of them. All the opinions are just that, opinions based on the conversations with the manufacturers and the manufacturer’s reps. In EPSON’s case I had an opportunity to go to their R&D lab and get some inside info. Some confidential knowledge was shared about the Brother by one of the beta testers/person involved in development. While only the time will tell which unit is more reliable and thus most likely the better choice, at this point they both look good, but EPSON just offers a bit more.
Pierre
I`m curious, are you already in the position where you know that you will be printing with the Epson day in day out or are you still at a stage where you print a couple of jobs a day only but want this to cover increase in orders over the next few month? We are as well in the market for an inkjet printer, would be our first one, and looking at the Brother GT-X. Not the Bulk Pro version though. But like you said there are a few things that leave room for improvement on the Brother printers. And even though the Epson is a lot more expensive then the GT-X and we have not yet an established DTG customer base I would see it as a purchase for busier days. I don`t like the idea of buying an entry model first and once it gets more busy upgrading to a pro printer.
we do not have enough work for it to print all day. We are buying a little ahead so we can get a stronghold on the services. We will try to get on demand printing going for our customers which will require fulfilling the orders of one, two or three pieces. There are software packages that allow for full speed printing on orders like that so we will give it a try.
pierre
-
For me many customers that knew the orders were being DTG printed would not order as a result. Most likely I assume because they have had bad DTG before. Which is logical because just a few years ago DTG was largely trash, just facts. Its getting better all the time I do think people get really really hyped on the printing and how easy that is and forget the BS pretreat steps, heat pressing and all that extra work that is what makes up the most part of your time when offering DTG.
We had a great machine (MLINK) and very little drama with it. But the pretreat BS and time suck all that was.... made it just a much longer process than I think many know. Also I saw prints take seconds and prints take 5 minutes. So if you are using some ideal print like I am sure Epson and Brother are basing speed on don't kid yourself. Many prints probably will take longer.
Interested where the thread goes. Ill be forever watching DTG. We got out of that game mostly due to space and lack of staff to run it within that already tight space. Wasn't going to modify my building to run DTG just yet.
-
We have been using a brother GT541 close to ten years now, the machine is down currently and we are contemplating letting sail into the sunset. Our biggest complaint with Brother after all these years is the ridiculously over priced parts. Its like owning a boat, a grand here a grand there but always a grand minimum.
One thing I learned after dealing with DTG for so long, forget anything the manu tells you about shirts per hour, ink cost, etc. They have the most optimized numbers possible to market with, think any consumer grade power tools at the box store, they have data numbers that are so ridiculous but its somehow done in some scientific lab under scientific parameters so they can put those outlandish numbers on the box.
A shop a few buildings down from us has the latest Epson printer, not sure if it is the F3070 but it is newer gen and it is back at epson or the dealer currently, they have never had a single day of problem free printing since they got it and they keep falling back on some older unit they have. Not saying the F3070 is bad but it shows if a lemon makes it out the door to you, you are screwed, there will be no replacement printer sitting at your door the next day, you will have to jump through all the hoops, send it out, get it back, fiddle etc. Essentially lose money.
That said the F3070 is what we are looking at next but we want a contract or deal that absolutely garauntees a perfect working machine out of the box or it goes back for a replacement not for repairs.
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Share the video please!
-
I dont see any attachment picture on app and web based nothing. which model?
My Bad, I botched the link it https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer (https://www.photomugs.com/pages/dtg-printer)
It's a good machine, and puts out quality prints, has a heat press in the back for flattening fibers, but... unless you speak Mandarin as the support is in China I think you may have a hard time.
If a larger distributor would sell that machine and build a support network it is a great option.
-
Nice write up Pierre.
We are on our 3rd DTG. It's a good addition, but it's also becoming a flooded market at this point. Also, the lack of poly printing, and really hard times printing on blends is a huge setback for these printers.
I loved our GT541. It was a great machine even though it was only CMYK. The GT381 I personally don't think is that great of a machine. I have had more problems with it overall than we did with the 541. I haven't looked at the GTX at all.
When it's all done, we may not replace it. Being in the south we do a TON of poly. I mean, a strong 80% of what's on press is moisture wicking of some sort. A white ink machine just isn't a good fit for us at this point. We'll probably check out a good little CMYK printer if that's still the case.
-
We went to Kyoto City today to see Brother`s main distributer for their DTG printers in Japan. They showed us lots of stuff, printed some samples with us and informed us about upcomming new releases. For example the GT-X Pro, not the Pro-B, just the Pro. Same price as the GT-X but with new Firmware, new printhead that saves around 50% of white ink waste and some other features. They showed us as well prints they done on black heavy bleeding 100% polyester tees. Perfect prints, same pretreat solution as for cotton tees. We were told the new firmware made it possible to print on dark poly tees. It will not work on all poly garments but on a majority of them. At the same time they rubbished the statement that the ink can be used only for 3 month. They have cartridges in the printer for a year now without the need to replace them. I checked, some of their cartridges were already 2 month over the best before date and the printer was just doing fine.
-
Nice write up Pierre.
We are on our 3rd DTG. It's a good addition, but it's also becoming a flooded market at this point. Also, the lack of poly printing, and really hard times printing on blends is a huge setback for these printers.
I loved our GT541. It was a great machine even though it was only CMYK. The GT381 I personally don't think is that great of a machine. I have had more problems with it overall than we did with the 541. I haven't looked at the GTX at all.
When it's all done, we may not replace it. Being in the south we do a TON of poly. I mean, a strong 80% of what's on press is moisture wicking of some sort. A white ink machine just isn't a good fit for us at this point. We'll probably check out a good little CMYK printer if that's still the case.
supposedly poly pretreat is coming this fall. that was a big factor for us too.
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Share the video please!
sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously, there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Share the video please!
sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously, there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.
Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4)
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Share the video please!
sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously, there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.
Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4)
that looks to be about 16" tall. we have the shirt at the shop, I can have them measure it. We (Richard Greaves and our production manager) watched it print a 12x12 in about 42 seconds. That would not necessarily work for you since you print much larger, but for most of us it's OK.
Software like smake or linx actually preloads the design for you so no looking for anything while printing (just scan the bar code on the shirt). Pretreatment is still a pain. There are some automated options that do it like the printers (similar to the way printer art is preloaded), some that will pretreat the whole garment and it looks like fully pretreated garments are coming this fall.
We are getting there. . .
pierre
-
just as an FYI, I have seen the video or the actual printer deliver in advertised time for both. The hold up is in prepping the art file, loading the shirts, making sure the shirts are ready, pretreat done and so on. With a good system like Smake and possibly Brown's Linx those are optimized and significantly faster and easier.
pierre
Share the video please!
sorry, could not find it any more. The video showed only one shirt printing and the time it takes to do it.
Obviously, there will be delays running it full on so I reduced the numbers per hour in the calculations. Brother is set for 35 per hour and EPSON at 65.
Just watched this video. It takes a touch over 1 minute to print this shirt, not counting any load time of the shirt, not counting any time getting the file loaded or located, not counting any pre-treat time or heat press time. This looks to be a smaller print than would be normal in my shop as well. Printer moves pretty quick though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34vBdmk57G4)
that looks to be about 16" tall. we have the shirt at the shop, I can have them measure it. We (Richard Greaves and our production manager) watched it print a 12x12 in about 42 seconds. That would not necessarily work for you since you print much larger, but for most of us it's OK.
Software like smake or linx actually preloads the design for you so no looking for anything while printing (just scan the bar code on the shirt). Pretreatment is still a pain. There are some automated options that do it like the printers (similar to the way printer art is preloaded), some that will pretreat the whole garment and it looks like fully pretreated garments are coming this fall.
We are getting there. . .
pierre
Ya 12x12 wouldn't work for my market. Backs are 15x17, typical front is center chest 10-12 inches wide or a left chest. But easily 99.9999% of the work here is front and back prints.
I agree we are progressing, but and please take no offense. Until DTG solves pre-treat, heat press and being able to print reliably on at least any 50/50 blended garment....we aint getting there. Some would say we aren't even there on 100% cotton. I used to have a pile of 100% cotton T's that randomly pretreat would not play well with. Shirts that would play well before then don't the next time.
-
ask me in few months. I think we are just getting there or close enough to give this a shot. Our experience with DTG so far has been rough, but for the most part it was technology related. It seems that the issues we had have been addressed, but only time will tell.
For anybody reading this and thinking DTG is like a copier machine (push the button and a shirt comes out), MOVE ON! Digital is a process almost as complicated as screen printing and unless you are willing to 1. learn it, 2. put in the time and 3. set up in depth systems it will be a failure. To those that are willing, there will be payouts!
pierre
-
ask me in few months. I think we are just getting there or close enough to give this a shot. Our experience with DTG so far has been rough, but for the most part it was technology related. It seems that the issues we had have been addressed, but only time will tell.
For anybody reading this and thinking DTG is like a copier machine (push the button and a shirt comes out), MOVE ON! Digital is a process almost as complicated as screen printing and unless you are willing to 1. learn it, 2. put in the time and 3. set up in depth systems it will be a failure. To those that are willing, there will be payouts!
pierre
I watch it all the time. Hell we enjoyed our Mlink. A machine that was in better shape cost per print wise than most machines on the market still today. But DTG is not perfect. DTG isn't close to perfect. Anyone that says different is probably trying to sell you one.
I think we have to have that land on the moon moment before DTG will be a real contender vs screen print. Right now they haven't even built the launch pad. But yes, with the time in the systems DTG can make money. We made money with ours and we ran it part time.
-
I'll always keep my eye out, but for now it still might be part of my retirement plan lol. By that time I'll put up a nice Morton Building on my property with temp and humidity control and I'll mess around with some DTG printing.
-
Pierre...Just wondering why the M&R Maverick wasn't considered...I haven't really looked if this has been mentioned..but I remember GD had an M Link
-
Pierre...Just wondering why the M&R Maverick wasn't considered...I haven't really looked if this has been mentioned..but I remember GD had an M Link
To be honest, i heard the price and it did not fit. ‘Probably should have checked it...
Pierre
-
what did you hear on maverick price? curious.
Shane
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
-
what did you hear on maverick price? curious.
Shane
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Cant remember, between 100 and 250.
I think it was 150.
Not really sure.
Does anybody here have the info?
Pierre
-
ouch... but 2-3 and have better thru put for that price.
Shane
Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk