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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Gabe on February 01, 2012, 09:17:03 AM
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Howdy teammates
what kind of tape ya`ll use for aluminum static frames
the one i use. leaves the gummy part of the tape stuck to the frame
making me work twice in the reclaiming room :'(
i call my supplier to send a more friendly tape
instead send me some other tape with the same problem ::)
any thoughts
Thanks
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we use PMI split tape 3 inch...perfect...
Sam
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I just stumble on a buch of tape in a local store Marc's (Do not know if they are in your area).
$.99 / roll got a bunch of them. No residue left on aluminum frames. It is 55 yard rolls and thick rubber tape.
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You want a tape with a rubber based (not the more common acrylic) adhesive. In fact, I have to order more as well. I got mine from Uline, and will check what I got last time, unless someone else jumps in and helps us both out in the meantime.
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I think it may have been this one (but I still need to find my old order)
http://www.uline.com/BL_3065/Natural-Rubber-Adhesive-Tape-PVC (http://www.uline.com/BL_3065/Natural-Rubber-Adhesive-Tape-PVC)
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we also use a tape by Uline:
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-6536/Natural-Rubber-Carton-Sealing-Tape/3-x-110-yds-25-Mil-Clear-Natural-Rubber-Tape (http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-6536/Natural-Rubber-Carton-Sealing-Tape/3-x-110-yds-25-Mil-Clear-Natural-Rubber-Tape)
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I had samples sent in by the shipping supply company and we settled on a slightly thicker tape in a 110 yard spool. I think the price ended up being about the same as the 50 yard roll from Uline. Very happy with it! I should also mention, we only tape two sides and the screen goes into the dip tank with the tape on it. This way it comes of cleanly.
pierre
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I had samples sent in by the shipping supply company and we settled on a slightly thicker tape in a 110 yard spool. I think the price ended up being about the same as the 50 yard roll from Uline. Very happy with it! I should also mention, we only tape two sides and the screen goes into the dip tank with the tape on it. This way it comes of cleanly.
pierre
You forgot to mention the make and model of that tape. ;)
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Uline will know.....comes in a couple of different mil thicknesses. I saved $5. per roll vs PMI and we use a lot so it's pretty significant.
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PMI split tape as well
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Central Tape 500 is rubber based.
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Been using TandJ Printing Supply's tape for a few years now. Buy it by the case to get below $5/roll in 3".
http://www.tandjprintingsupply.com/supplies/tapes/screen-tape/3-white-natural-rubber-screen-tape.html (http://www.tandjprintingsupply.com/supplies/tapes/screen-tape/3-white-natural-rubber-screen-tape.html)
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Uline will know.....comes in a couple of different mil thicknesses. I saved $5. per roll vs PMI and we use a lot so it's pretty significant.
Same here..
Was a long time PMI user until the cost just got to high for a large volume shop. It's about .45 to .60 per screen to use the PMI and the tape just ends up in the trash. It's great tape and saves a ton of time in both application and removal but it simply costs to much. If they costed it around 4.50 a roll they'd corner the market on tape.
That same roll of 3" white tape from our local tape manufacturer (BRON tapes in San Diego) in a 110 yard roll comes out to .25 per screen and goes on and off the same as the PMI for a lot less $$.
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OK, for those asking . .
Under $3 for a 110 yard roll.
www.ship-paq.com (http://www.ship-paq.com) 800 548-7447x222 (Marie' Lawson)
item number SP-8C
2" wide (get a wider coater so you don't need the 3" tape, it's a waste of time and money. Go ask Homer!)
it is significantly thicker than the cheapest stuff out there. It feels almost twice as thick as the cheap stuff.
It is not clear, but has the same tint as other rubber based stuff I have tried so my guess is it is rubber.
Email Marie' insidesales@ship-paq.com or give her a call and ask for a sample.
Make sure you mention my name so I score some brownie points!!!
pierre
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uline sent us a box of a 2" tape by mistake - i tried to get the screen guys to use it, but they pissed and moaned until i got the 3" tape back in stock. we ended up using the 2" to tape up registration marks at the press.
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So is it cheaper to use 2" tape and more emulsion or 3" tape and less emulsion? I guess I could run the numbers and experiment but I don't feel like it.
We use a rubber based 2.0 mil 3" tape that is great. It's 4.50 a roll. I've tried several dozen types of tape and we settled on this product because it does everything we need it to do and is very easy to remove and leaves no residue. I've used the pmi split tape and damn it's pricey and doesn't work any better for us than the stuff we use now.
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I use a wider coater now days and only use 2 peices of tape , at the top and at the bottom of inside the screen, makes reclaim so much faster and my tape rolls last so much longer. I buy the giant machine rolls of masking tape, each roll last about 2-3 months at 60 -100 screens a month. A case of 4 rolls last me a good portion of a year.
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uline sent us a box of a 2" tape by mistake - i tried to get the screen guys to use it, but they pissed and moaned until i got the 3" tape back in stock. we ended up using the 2" to tape up registration marks at the press.
I was the same way. My guys kept telling me to get a wider scoop coater and use the 2" tape. I kept telling them I though it would mess up our coating (EOM). Well, they were right! With a thinner gap, 2" covers just fine and it is easier to put on the screen than the 3" stuff. We also stopped taping the top and bottom (on longer prints we'll tape the bottom just in case) and now we use less tape that is cheaper, take less time to put it on and take off. While the savings in time and money is not very big, it is there and it did not come at the cost of quality.
It is worth looking into it . . .
pierre
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So is it cheaper to use 2" tape and more emulsion or 3" tape and less emulsion? I guess I could run the numbers and experiment but I don't feel like it.
I did cost it. On average if you tape a 23x31 frame on the inside top and 2 sides with 2" tape you'll need 170" as you have to double down with the tape to cover the frame and emulsion edge.
3" tape on the same screen uses 85" of tape as you only need 1 piece per side.
Now if you tape the back of the screen like we do to block out reg marks, then you need to add 24 to 40" to your number.
Okay.. still with me..
A 110 yard roll of tape has 3960" of tape on it. Take the cost of the tape and divide it by the length of the roll.
2" tape = $1.79/3960= .00045 per inch
3" tape = $3.49/3960= .00088 per inch.
Take that number and multiply it by the amount of tape you use...
2" tape @ 200" (170" + 30" for back of screen) = .09 cents per frame.
3" tape @ 115" (85 + 30" for back of screen) = .10 cents per frame.
Well look at that, it's .01 more for the 3" BUT.. it took you 1/2 the time to apply the tape so now you have to figure in labor and how long it takes to tape a screen..
I went there to.. lol!
$12 per hour employee breaks down to .20 cents a minute.
It takes 3 minutes to tape using the 2" tape for a cost of .60 cents
It takes 1.5 minutes to tape using the 3" tape. for a cost of .30 cents
Now add that to the tape cost
2" tape = .09 + .60 = .69 per frame
3" tape = .10 + .30 = .40 per frame.
Now multiply the amount of screens you use in a year and see just how much it's been costing you to tape screens.
who's going to stop using 2" tape now...
8)
Oh yeah.. btw I've costed the emulsion per screen as well.. about ..25 to .40 depending on the mesh and how many coats you use.
this is all part of my consulting work, costing down to the minute.
If I just saved you $500 a year with a simple post about screen tape.. what can I do for you in person.
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Thanks, for the feed back
i got a hold of couple of rubber base tapes
to try out
@ alan
your guess is as good as mine
i was thinking yesterday. 2 inch tape or 3 inch?
more emulsion ?
less emulsion?
what came first ? the chicken or the egg
i don`t know yet
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@jsheridan
problem solved 3" is the winner
i never would`ve put all that math together
thank you ;)
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@jsheridan
problem solved 3" is the winner
i never would`ve put all that math together
thank you ;)
Glad I could help!! ;)
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So is it cheaper to use 2" tape and more emulsion or 3" tape and less emulsion? I guess I could run the numbers and experiment but I don't feel like it.
I did cost it. On average if you tape a 23x31 frame on the inside top and 2 sides with 2" tape you'll need 170" as you have to double down with the tape to cover the frame and emulsion edge.
3" tape on the same screen uses 85" of tape as you only need 1 piece per side.
Now if you tape the back of the screen like we do to block out reg marks, then you need to add 24 to 40" to your number.
Okay.. still with me..
A 110 yard roll of tape has 3960" of tape on it. Take the cost of the tape and divide it by the length of the roll.
2" tape = $1.79/3960= .00045 per inch
3" tape = $3.49/3960= .00088 per inch.
Take that number and multiply it by the amount of tape you use...
2" tape @ 200" (170" + 30" for back of screen) = .09 cents per frame.
3" tape @ 115" (85 + 30" for back of screen) = .10 cents per frame.
Well look at that, it's .01 more for the 3" BUT.. it took you 1/2 the time to apply the tape so now you have to figure in labor and how long it takes to tape a screen..
I went there to.. lol!
$12 per hour employee breaks down to .20 cents a minute.
It takes 3 minutes to tape using the 2" tape for a cost of .60 cents
It takes 1.5 minutes to tape using the 3" tape. for a cost of .30 cents
Now add that to the tape cost
2" tape = .09 + .60 = .69 per frame
3" tape = .10 + .30 = .40 per frame.
Now multiply the amount of screens you use in a year and see just how much it's been costing you to tape screens.
who's going to stop using 2" tape now...
8)
Oh yeah.. btw I've costed the emulsion per screen as well.. about ..25 to .40 depending on the mesh and how many coats you use.
this is all part of my consulting work, costing down to the minute.
If I just saved you $500 a year with a simple post about screen tape.. what can I do for you in person.
all of this is based on the premise that you can not use a single piece of 2" tape which we are doing quite successfully. It also shows the cost of tape a little lower than it should be and the amount of tape used can be lower.
In principle though, the conclusion is correct (if you are unable to use 2" tape). What EVERYBODY should be taking from this is that one should NOT double up on the 2" tape and stop taping the top and the bottom part of the screen!
pierre
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@jsheridan
problem solved 3" is the winner
i never would`ve put all that math together
thank you ;)
Glad I could help!! ;)
John,
You should put your paypal account info in your signature for those that want to tip you for saving them that kind of money on tape! Great figures! Thanks for sharing that. ;D
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Am I wrong in my process of "cheating" the scoop coater to one side then the other while I coat. This coats more of the screen but keeps the extra coats compiling where it counts.
I always end with a proper coat down the middle.
Now for you guys not taping top and bottom... is that mainly on autos, or are ya'll just careful not the get ink that for back and forwards? Or do you guys just run the scoop coater all the way from edge to edge on the final "outside" pass?
Newbies need to know this stuff. :)
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Am I wrong in my process of "cheating" the scoop coater to one side then the other while I coat. This coats more of the screen but keeps the extra coats compiling where it counts.
I always end with a proper coat down the middle.
Now for you guys not taping top and bottom... is that mainly on autos, or are ya'll just careful not the get ink that for back and forwards? Or do you guys just run the scoop coater all the way from edge to edge on the final "outside" pass?
Newbies need to know this stuff. :)
we are on an auto. I can see the issues with not having tape on a manual, but as you mentioned, coating all the way to the edge might solve that. My suggestion is to try it out and don't be stubborn like I was!!!
moving the coater will work, but it is easier with a wide one. . .
pierre
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all of this is based on the premise that you can not use a single piece of 2" tape which we are doing quite successfully. It also shows the cost of tape a little lower than it should be and the amount of tape used can be lower.
In principle though, the conclusion is correct (if you are unable to use 2" tape). What EVERYBODY should be taking from this is that one should NOT double up on the 2" tape and stop taping the top and the bottom part of the screen!
pierre
You can't get much better than that and it's a very viable way to coat and tape to keep cost and labor down for static frames.. but... what are you going to do when you get roller frames and you can't coat all the way to the edge due to the corner softening.??
Coating to the edge works awesome on a static frame.. not rollers. you'll leave blobs of emulsion in the corners so you have to use 3" tape if you want to cover the roller and emulsion edge. It gets even worse when the corners are to soft and you lose over 6" of top to bottom coverage and 3-4" of side to side.
This costing was done for the shop I'm working with now as the owner kept saying the 3" tape was to expensive.. so I had to show him with math how much he was losing a year (about $800 in extra tape and labor) by using and doubling the 2" tape.
I just gave away one of my formulas that I've had for years so I hope everyone uses it the best you can and looks at how you tape a screen differently.
Did I save you a few hunderd or even a thousand bucks this year .. send a paypal thanks to my email. Thanks for the Idea Jason 8)
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No offense but if people didn't already know how to do that math then they just aren't math junky/nerds like me. :)
Sadly I wouldn't even consider myself a math junky in my circles. My buddy used to carry around a math book for fun... he took EVERY math class at our college when he was there (Math Major). I know nothing compared to him.
But I do enjoy playing around in excel and doing all these costing things... drives the wife crazy. I built a quick spread sheet to see how much it would cost us to make a bar of soap based on cost of ingredients, some of it comes in gallons, some of it comes in ounces (yeah, we are thinking about yet ANOTHER business to get into!)
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No offense but if people didn't already know how to do that math then they just aren't math junky/nerds like me. :)
You would be amazed at how many shops have never even thought to do stuff like this, math and science solve all problems.
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all of this is based on the premise that you can not use a single piece of 2" tape which we are doing quite successfully. It also shows the cost of tape a little lower than it should be and the amount of tape used can be lower.
In principle though, the conclusion is correct (if you are unable to use 2" tape). What EVERYBODY should be taking from this is that one should NOT double up on the 2" tape and stop taping the top and the bottom part of the screen!
pierre
You can't get much better than that and it's a very viable way to coat and tape to keep cost and labor down for static frames.. but... what are you going to do when you get roller frames and you can't coat all the way to the edge due to the corner softening.??
Coating to the edge works awesome on a static frame.. not rollers. you'll leave blobs of emulsion in the corners so you have to use 3" tape if you want to cover the roller and emulsion edge. It gets even worse when the corners are to soft and you lose over 6" of top to bottom coverage and 3-4" of side to side.
This costing was done for the shop I'm working with now as the owner kept saying the 3" tape was to expensive.. so I had to show him with math how much he was losing a year (about $800 in extra tape and labor) by using and doubling the 2" tape.
I just gave away one of my formulas that I've had for years so I hope everyone uses it the best you can and looks at how you tape a screen differently.
Did I save you a few hunderd or even a thousand bucks this year .. send a paypal thanks to my email. Thanks for the Idea Jason 8)
hmmm, interesting! We are using EZ frames with soft corners and have no problems with it. They do have solid square frames so that might be a part of the equation when it comes to how wide the tape has to be.
I had to go and check. The corners are soft for only about an inch, or two at the most. We coat to about 1.25 from the edge which gives us about 3/4" on the frame. That might not be enough for the rollers . . .
pierre
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I've always approached this screen printing thing like John has done with his tape cost analysis. Although I haven't done it with the tape like John has done for us, I always assumed that the little extra bit of tape needed was cheaper than all the extra emulsion needed to cover that same area. We used 2" tape when I first got here, and I changed to the 3" really quickly. I've even thought of using less emulsion on our screens due to the HUGE amount on the screen that doesn't get used, but then we are talking about the labor increasing exponentially and soon you'd cross that line where the cost of the emulsion would be cheaper than the tape and labor to cover up the places the ink will seeping through.
STAND BACK BURRITOS, John just dropped some knowledge bombs up in here. That's the difference between this forum and the others...we can do what they can do, but they can't do what we do-The Shirt Board
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I have tried LOTS of different tapes, and the winner is....Ace hardware 3"!!! You can negotiate price and it works and cleans up great. We pay 2.70 a roll. Been using it for 14 years.
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all of this is based on the premise that you can not use a single piece of 2" tape which we are doing quite successfully. It also shows the cost of tape a little lower than it should be and the amount of tape used can be lower.
In principle though, the conclusion is correct (if you are unable to use 2" tape). What EVERYBODY should be taking from this is that one should NOT double up on the 2" tape and stop taping the top and the bottom part of the screen!
pierre
You can't get much better than that and it's a very viable way to coat and tape to keep cost and labor down for static frames.. but... what are you going to do when you get roller frames and you can't coat all the way to the edge due to the corner softening.??
Coating to the edge works awesome on a static frame.. not rollers. you'll leave blobs of emulsion in the corners so you have to use 3" tape if you want to cover the roller and emulsion edge. It gets even worse when the corners are to soft and you lose over 6" of top to bottom coverage and 3-4" of side to side.
This costing was done for the shop I'm working with now as the owner kept saying the 3" tape was to expensive.. so I had to show him with math how much he was losing a year (about $800 in extra tape and labor) by using and doubling the 2" tape.
I just gave away one of my formulas that I've had for years so I hope everyone uses it the best you can and looks at how you tape a screen differently.
Did I save you a few hunderd or even a thousand bucks this year .. send a paypal thanks to my email. Thanks for the Idea Jason 8)
No Prob John! Got to look out for each other. Find me some used Newmans too if you know of any. Need to add to the collection.
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No offense but if people didn't already know how to do that math then they just aren't math junky/nerds like me. :)
You would be amazed at how many shops have never even thought to do stuff like this, math and science solve all problems.
Word!!
Hell, I was crunching numbers before I ever pulled a squeegee on things like this... I was borrowing other people's numbers on how much ink goes on an average print how much emulsion on a screen... blah blah blah... I still basically have to borrow those figures because I'm not up to speed enough to test them out for myself. I also typically buy smaller qty's so I just always round up a bit on my cost to compensate.
Alan, nice line... I'll throw in a quote that I like, if anyone recognizes it then good on them, one of the greatest games EVER.
"We do what we must because we can."
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No Prob John! Got to look out for each other. Find me some used Newmans too if you know of any. Need to add to the collection.
I just saw a guy on Digit selling 23x31 MZX's for $25 a pop or $2000 per 100
http://www.digitsmith.com/newman-mzx-fames-23x31-31525.html (http://www.digitsmith.com/newman-mzx-fames-23x31-31525.html)
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STAND BACK BURRITOS, John just dropped some knowledge bombs up in here. That's the difference between this forum and the others...we can do what they can do, but they can't do what we do-The Shirt Board
Sure they can, sort of. They copy and paste and imply or even claim originality.
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I bought newman m3 23x31's, in immaculate shape from Tance for a song, something like 12/frame I think. I did have to pay out the butt to ship them to me, but still got them for around $20 per.
Here are a few pics of the beauties I got.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/2C63DE02-7895-4FED-9386-D2D25DB9AF64.jpg)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/3851D14F-F0F4-432D-8677-CC581563C893.jpg)
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Nice score!
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We found that the labor component versus a supply component generally prompts the selection of the specific item that reduces labor to the largest degree. Performance of the supply item and the net effect on the quality of production has a large bearing on the selection process. When all the factors are considered, then we select a SOP supply item.
For instance: We use a heavier plastic wrap for our napkin bundles at the linen rental end of our business. It is much more expensive obviously. The results were astounding. The wrappers used less as the bundle "felt" covered. Repacement of soiled linen from a bundle getting ripped open in our trucks stopped. Quite a bit more money on the front side, but easily paid for on the back side, and less overall aggravation in the long run.
An assessment of a supply item needs to take into consideration more factors than I previously imagined. An interesting exercise to say the least.
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That is very true. I believe the saying goes...penny wise and pound foolish
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I have tried LOTS of different tapes, and the winner is....Ace hardware 3"!!! You can negotiate price and it works and cleans up great. We pay 2.70 a roll. Been using it for 14 years.
OMG, you actually have and ACE hardware around?
Just about all the hardware stores here in Houston have either gone belly up or sold out to places like Starbucks to use the land for a parking lot.
Oh, I know there's a few around. Just not close to me to drive.
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Are these rubber based adhesive tapes from ULINE any good in the sense of not leaving any tacky residue when you strip them from the frame? I use the standard screen printing tape from ryonet and its low adhesive so my frames always look brand new. My boss on the other hand uses a cheap packing tape and our screen frames have accumulated a disgusting amount of built up sticky gunk that makes the screens ugly and extremely hard to reclaim. I like the ryonet stuff but even in bulk its 3 bucks a roll. That ULINE stuff looks similar and at 2 bucks a roll I'd definitely like to switch.
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They have a 7/24 live chat line and you can request a sample of the S-660, I just did.
No idea if the sample is a full roll or just 12 inches, lol. but there are so many choices, I needed something for a trial.
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I can't see who makes our tape, they don't label it and the box they ship them in is generic and doesn't have any evidence for who makes it. I will ask my distributor but she probably won't want to tell me thinking that I'm trying to find a cheaper source or something sneaky.
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tell her is for the board especially for doublestroke
the other burrito guy ;)
thanks
Gabe
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Are these rubber based adhesive tapes from ULINE any good in the sense of not leaving any tacky residue when you strip them from the frame? I use the standard screen printing tape from ryonet and its low adhesive so my frames always look brand new. My boss on the other hand uses a cheap packing tape and our screen frames have accumulated a disgusting amount of built up sticky gunk that makes the screens ugly and extremely hard to reclaim. I like the ryonet stuff but even in bulk its 3 bucks a roll. That ULINE stuff looks similar and at 2 bucks a roll I'd definitely like to switch.
First, a hat tip to Frog. I bought 18 rolls of the ULINE tape he recommended and it's all it's cracked up to be, from being cheap to leaving the frame clean. Strips off easy, and much cheaper than what I'd been using.
Thanks.
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tip it to ebscreen as well, because, though I have always told folks about the rubber based adhesives, he mentioned this particular one.
Kudos also to Uline for actually addressing that different adhesives are available on otherwise similar products.
It may not mean a lot when sealing a box, but on screens, it's a very different issue!
Rubber good, acrylic bad.
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I think it may have been this one (but I still need to find my old order)
[url]http://www.uline.com/BL_3065/Natural-Rubber-Adhesive-Tape-PVC[/url] ([url]http://www.uline.com/BL_3065/Natural-Rubber-Adhesive-Tape-PVC[/url])
So was this the one you got? I never saw the follow up to definitively say this was the one... I may have just missed it.
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Yes, and someone even contacted me and said that they got it after reading about it here and liked it as well.
Bottom line though, in this non specialized tape type, pick your brand, preferred thickness and width, but be sure to get rubber adhesive.
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can you tear that stuff with your hands? or do you have to cut/bite it?
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I use a dispenser, and no, I don't think it easily tears.
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OH, FYI, call Ed at TapeZit in lawrenceville, ga. He is cheaper than Uline, and it's the same exact tape. Intertape makes the tape for Uline.
Ed Mullins
tapezit
(770) 962-4395
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is anyone cheaper than Ace Hardware? $2.99 for a 3" roll. And it works great. If they are I will give them a shot.
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first off, is that regular masking? Also, how long is that roll? A lot of times they are selling a 55 yard roll and not a 110 yard roll.