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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Denis Kolar on February 06, 2012, 10:13:07 PM
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I ordered 12 aluminum screens last week, 2 with 155 mesh, 5 with 200 mesh and 5 with 305 mesh.
I decided to degrease them tonight but just before I started, I decided to measure the tension.
Both 155's were at 21 newtons, all 305's were around 19-20 and I had 2 from 200's at 19-20 newtons and 3 of them were at 12.5.
Should I go back to the seller and ask for the money back or new screens to be sent to me for those that are 12 newtons?
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I would that is a big difference!
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I'd ask for replacements or a refund. 12.5nm is awfully low. I wonder, though, how many people who use statics measure the tension, and how often a company that sells new frames get complaints similar to yours? My guess is seldom. Tension meters seem to be pretty low on most folks must-have list, unless they're using retensionables, because they're expensive. I bought a used one early on because I thought I was going to make my own frames and moved to retensionabes right after.
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I would also send them back. (I have before. The guy that made the screens was shocked at how low they were, they learned to make better screen because of it) 12.5n that is just bad. Let them sell them to someone that doesn't know. I tell my suppliers that I need no less than 20 (25n now lets see how long they last). I cut the mesh out of screens that are under 15n. I think it is a good idea for you to start sending back screens that are low. If you don't the supplier will just keep sending you whatever. We are the customer in this situation and we are right? (like that works anymore)
The truth is unless you demand better quality from your supplier they will not change. It is in their best interest to change and start sending you better. We have plenty of suppliers to choose from. If they say they can't send you better then tell them you’re moving on to someone that can. The quality of the screens have a part in the quality of your prints. Don't let them control how good a printer you can be.
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I'd ask for replacements or a refund. 12.5nm is awfully low. I wonder, though, how many people who use statics measure the tension, and how often a company that sells new frames get complaints similar to yours? My guess is seldom. Tension meters seem to be pretty low on most folks must-have list, unless they're using retensionables, because they're expensive. I bought a used one early on because I thought I was going to make my own frames and moved to retensionabes right after.
Tipman makes a good point here. Most screen printers wouldn't even know what they are at. I run all statics (currently) and I have had a tension meter for most of my printing career. I like to know what they are at, it takes one variable out.
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By the time I bought a tension meter, I had accumulated and used quite a number of static screens.
Going back and checking the statics, I realized I had printed quite a few jobs with screens in the 13-15 range and never really experienced a printing problem.
However, we all know a tighter tension makes better prints....and really, so does your supplier. I'd return them.
I'd "settle" for statics around 18, so you're 33% reduced already.
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you know what I'm going to say about this...
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you know what I'm going to say about this...
I know. Quit effin around and buy some retensionables...... Right? Update on the newmans I told you about in Long Beach. Neighbor had all 200 of them lying around not doing anything. Made a deal on a dozen of them. Should help with print quality
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you know what I'm going to say about this...
Same thing as me ;D
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Here is another question for the rest of ya.
If the 305's need ot be in an area of 20 at min and 22-25 on average, then the 200's need to be at a higher tension right? They are thicker and stronger. Thus able to hold higher tensions. and the 155's? They are at 21? Shouldn't they be up much higher like...i donno, maybe 30-35n?
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Thanks for the replies. John, I know what you wanted to say, retensionable screens are in the plans, but not right now. If this becomes a bigger production and a full time job, yes.
Dan, if I can get them all to be around 20, I'm a happy camper.
Here is the pic.
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12.5n never used, imagine what they will settle in at after work hardened, damn right you should get a refund!
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Here is another question for the rest of ya.
If the 305's need ot be in an area of 20 at min and 22-25 on average, then the 200's need to be at a higher tension right? They are thicker and stronger. Thus able to hold higher tensions. and the 155's? They are at 21? Shouldn't they be up much higher like...i donno, maybe 30-35n?
Higher tensioned screens would run at lower off contact distances. This could be done if off contact on the press was set to zero and shims in the frame holders were used. Each tension level would require a different shim thickness. We try to run all meshes at 20- 22 newtons. I only use shims when I have a high density screen.
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Was it one side that was really low? Did you do a four corner read as well as the center?
Seems like some of those guys (at least that I've dealt with in the past,) don't maintain their equipment very well...
Dan--that is a great point--I've pulled 50 newtons on a 156 mesh, work hardened it, and then transferred it on a static. Went to 33 first reclaim, went to 25 second. Looking down the edges, you can see the bow in the frame.
Perhaps you were trying to imply what John was going to say, but everyone knew. :)
Just did it for my own experience, (and S&G,) but what many say is true in my observation, statics just won't hold high tension.
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As some of you might remember I picked up 60 Newman MZX's for a song.
I finally got a meter recently and threw it on some of the ones that still had mesh on them. The ones that I thought were amazingly tight. 16n! That's where they were... seemed tight like a drum!
Holy cow! So I grabbed the screens I had been printing with... 11-13.
What a shocker.
I really got to get some mesh and get these guys set up!
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Our old Gauntlet - where we run our 6 & 7 color jobs- doesn't like to hold roller frames as well as statics. When we order our static frames (or remesh) we ask that they be stretched to 25 and allowed to sit for 48 hours before shipping. If we have them stretched to 25 or more they won't take the freight handling and about 3 out of 10 come in split.
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I measured them in the middle only, both directions. For some reason, long side had better tension.
Long side was at 14 and short side was at 12. I put the tension meter at the corner so I could get the numbers of the screen in the pic. So they could see it is their screens.
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Yes, I'd send them back too. Though I printed a lot of t-shirts with stapled mesh that wouldn't even register on a tension meter, that's not what you thought you were buying.
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I just talked to them. They are guaranteeing the screen sto be at least 20n. They will have their manufacturer send me the replacements right away.
They will still let me know if I keep these ones or they will send me a return UPS label.
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After waiting for them to get back to me or to see the new screen, I decided to call them today.
"Oh, that is normall, it depends how long they were sitting at the manufacturers warehouse. The ones that are 20 will drop down to 12 over time...... Blah, Blah, Blah......Blah!!!!"
After I almost started yelling at them and told them that I will not be dealing with a supplier that sells new screens at 12 N, he changed his story and they are sending me new screens with the return labe (i asked for these screen to be checked before they mail them). BTW, I asket them what am I suposed to do with a screen that is 12 N that will become 5-6 N ove time. No answer on that one. Wonder why ???
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Who did you get them from?
If you don't want to say here PM me please.
Johnny
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i feel your pain DK
ABOUT printficient he claims to stretch 3 or 4 times
before shipping. are they better than 12 o 13 newtons
i would like to know
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I would like to know as well. I'm looking into converting my frames to shurloc ez frames
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i feel your pain DK
ABOUT printficient he claims to stretch 3 or 4 times
before shipping. are they better than 12 o 13 newtons
i would like to know
If someone think it is Sonny, It is not him!!!
It is someone else that I would not disclose publicly. They are not on the forum.
I understand that they do not make them, but they should stand behind product they sell and they should held their supplier (screen manufacturer).
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Way to stand strong with the guy. I played hardball with one of our screen suppliers way back when we were still using statics and they wouldn't guarantee any tension levels and I was trying to get them to provide me with screens that were at least 20 newtons and they wouldn't do it. They lost out on a small timer but I also stopped buying everything else from them too. I had brand new screens that had never been touched by a squeegee that were 12 newtons.
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i feel your pain DK
ABOUT printficient he claims to stretch 3 or 4 times
before shipping. are they better than 12 o 13 newtons
i would like to know
If someone think it is Sonny, It is not him!!!
It is someone else that I would not disclose publicly. They are not on the forum.
I understand that they do not make them, but they should stand behind product they sell and they should held their supplier (screen manufacturer).
Thanks
Dennis. We do pretension all mesh. Always have. The owner that does the screens invented the Newman Roller Master. This guy knows more about mesh and screens than anybody I know. Out of curiosity, what did you pay?