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screen printing => Equipment => Topic started by: Screened Gear on February 06, 2012, 11:46:04 PM
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Ok so I thought this would be a good topic to start with. Remember this is a video series so only post videos of your Auto press. I added the Poll feature to this post just for fun. Now it is really a war. We can see what everyone thinks. I feel like kind of a tool making these posts. I hope everyone likes them. I would like to do one for every aspect of each press.
Now if you have a press and want to post a video go ahead the more the better. I will add the name of the press to the list so people can vote it as the best option for micros. Make sure to vote for at least one press. You can change your vote as new presses are posted.
Make comments also. This is for learning so please no bashing.
UPDATE
These are the AUTO WARS so far
AUTO WARS 1 - Micro Registration
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2830.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2830.0.html)
AUTO WARS 2 - Screen Holders
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2868.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2868.0.html)
AUTO WARS 3 - Squeegees & Flood Bars
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2914.0.html)
AUTO WARS 4 - Pallets
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html)
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Here is my MHM E-type
mhm e micros (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jCIp68I5HE#)
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Pretty nice Jon! I like it. Nice machine too. By the way you sound so much different sober........ ;D
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Pretty nice Jon! I like it. Nice machine too. By the way you sound so much different sober........ ;D
When did you hear me sober??? I only drink at ISS shows.
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Pretty nice Jon! I like it. Nice machine too. By the way you sound so much different sober........ ;D
When did you hear me sober??? I only drink at ISS shows.
You sound sober there in your video. I really dig the micros after watching it again.
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I really dig the micros after watching it again.
They are really easy to use. I don't know how other presses work so I can't comment if they are better. That’s the reason I wanted to do this Video Series.
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Here is my MHM E-type
I would say that we do the changes on the fly all the time. If the print is out of registration it is usually a very small amount and when you make the adjustment it is getting closer to where it needs to be so it works great on the fly.
pierre
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Here is my MHM E-type
I would say that we do the changes on the fly all the time. If the print is out of registration it is usually a very small amount and when you make the adjustment it is getting closer to where it needs to be so it works great on the fly.
pierre
Pierre I agree with you. I knew if I said you can do it without the disclaimer that people would say that it would mess up wet on wet. You are talking about very fine adjustments, I do that also.
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I made a video today but didn't have time to do anything with it. I was installing a new 6/4 sidewinder today and a triloc regi system. I'll do my best to get it up here tomorrow.
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That is pretty cool. I won't bother with showing my Anatol which you have to lock and unlock. Obviously this system is probably the best on the market.
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I like the fact that you don't have to lock the micros, but engineering wise, how does it accomplish that and is it 100% locked in like it would be if it had a locking mechanism? I'd like to take one apart and see how it works, I'm not doubting it, I just wonder if there is a reason why other manufacturers use a locking mechanism on their micros. Damn Austrians might just be ahead of the game with that system.
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That is pretty cool. I won't bother with showing my Anatol which you have to lock and unlock. Obviously this system is probably the best on the market.
Donnie,
Even if you think your system is not better, make a video and post it. Its nice to see the compairisons. Thats why this AUTO WAR series was started. This goes for everyone.
Thanks
Jon
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Come on Donnie we have some cool presses, but hey I will agree, I like the way those mics work not having to tighten after micing has some benefits.
Darryl
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I like the fact that you don't have to lock the micros, but engineering wise, how does it accomplish that and is it 100% locked in like it would be if it had a locking mechanism? I'd like to take one apart and see how it works, I'm not doubting it, I just wonder if there is a reason why other manufacturers use a locking mechanism on their micros. Damn Austrians might just be ahead of the game with that system.
from what I can tell, the micros are a high ratio worm gear system and thus do not require locking. They are under slight tension so they do not turn freely and because of it do not drift. The adjustment force is higher than regular micros, but it can be done with just two fingers.
I have several that have developed a little bit of slop in them so they have few thousands of free play (not drifting while printing, just jump a little instead of smooth pickup when you initially turn the wheel), but overall, it is a very good system.
pierre
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i like the idea of the locking mechanism also
that a side. he is only turning one knob to make the adjustment
another time saver. whereas when working with two knobs you gotta
make sure both knobs are going evenly up or down together
just my two cents
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i like the idea of the locking mechanism also
that a side. he is only turning one knob to make the adjustment
another time saver. whereas when working with two knobs you gotta
make sure both knobs are going evenly up or down together
just my two cents
yes, for the most part, micros are linear. One to move the screen back and forth and a set to move them side to side (one moves the front and another for the back).
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that looks pretty similar to our S-type, except that the front to back adjuster is down on the same piece as the left/right adjuster.
Steve
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Here is my MHM E-type
mhm e micros ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jCIp68I5HE#[/url])
Sorry dumb question but what is holding the screen place in the video , it looks like rubber blocks at each end???
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they're nylon cups that fit over pins on the frame holders. Roller frames use pin adapters that fit into holes on the frame holders... the frame holders accommodate both types.
Steve
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they're nylon cups that fit over pins on the frame holders. Roller frames use pin adapters that fit into holes on the frame holders... the frame holders accommodate both types.
Steve
You beat me to it.
Not a Dumb question. MHM has a special way of mounting the screen that works with its Film Positioning Unit. They have 2 bushing (cups) that are installed on the same spot on all your screens with a drill jig. Then the FPU and press has metal studs that the bushings go over. The press then is like a vise and uses air pressure to hold the screen tight. In the video you can see the bushings by the mirco adjustments. (they look like a grey spacer (half inch round grey bar) between the screen and the screen holder) It is very different but works really will and it is really fast. (The next AUTO WAR will be screen clamps)
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Anatol Micros.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPE9ZKitaKE#)
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i was thinking about anatol having similar micros
thanks Donnie
nice video ;)
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Personally any press where the screen does not come unclamped during micro-registration
is a winner in my book. Too much room for jumping when those clamps hit the screen.
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Anatol Micros.wmv ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPE9ZKitaKE#[/url])
Thanks for posting Donnie. That looks like a nice press. You have to unlock the screen to move the micros?
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You have to unlock the opposite side. I really do not have much in the way of "jumping around" when you lock it back unless the screen is pretty warped but even then you can use the manual lock to keep it fairly level without completely locking it down.
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The mhm features are really out of the others league all around. But out of the more traditional presses I do like the anatol micros a lot on our manual. They're identical to Donnie's but plastic knobs and you don't unlock a side. Theres almost no jump if you use them correctly and the side to side movement is truly linear. When I need to micro it's a simple left or right nudge 99% of the time. I love them compared to x-y style micros. I think it's crazy that anyone voted for m&r style x-y s, I hate that setup regardless of press brand- the movement sucks and then when you finally get it there it jumps when you lock it down. they can walk out of reg in a run too. So thats my vote- mhm and then the anatol style.
Do you need to back off the mhm ones after adjusting or does the spring loading take care of this?
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You have to unlock the opposite side. I really do not have much in the way of "jumping around" when you lock it back unless the screen is pretty warped but even then you can use the manual lock to keep it fairly level without completely locking it down.
That make more sense. I was thinking how does it work if the screen is not locked down. So one side of your press does all the adjusting then you lock the other side down. It kind of works like my Workhorse press if I had another clamp on the front of the screen and I only lock that one down after I have the rear clamp holding the screen in the right place. Makes sense.
As long as it works then your good. I don't need a press that saves time like the MHM does. I am not a full production shop and don't plan on being one anytime soon. I got my auto so I don't burn my shoulders and arms out before I am 40. I maybe the only screen printer that didn't buy an auto so I can run it at top speed on huge orders.
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I think it's crazy that anyone voted for m&r style x-y s, I hate that setup regardless of press brand- the movement sucks and then when you finally get it there it jumps when you lock it down. they can walk out of reg in a run too.
Do you need to back off the mhm ones after adjusting or does the spring loading take care of this?
I have never seen the M&R style of micros..Someone post a video please...
The MHMs adjust just like I did in the video. You just let go of the knob when its in the right spot. There is no jump or need to Back off.
Back off, I am not sure what you mean?
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I think it's crazy that anyone voted for m&r style x-y s, I hate that setup regardless of press brand- the movement sucks and then when you finally get it there it jumps when you lock it down. they can walk out of reg in a run too.
Do you need to back off the mhm ones after adjusting or does the spring loading take care of this?
I have never seen the M&R style of micros..Someone post a video please...
The MHMs adjust just like I did in the video. You just let go of the knob when its in the right spot. There is no jump or need to Back off.
Back off, I am not sure what you mean?
yeah yeah.. I'm slacking. The M&R works wonders when done correctly.. to many people lock the rear holder and then using the front micros to try and move a metal frame around. It walks as the metal frame wanting to return to it's natural position is stronger than the clamps holding it.
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hey you did not include a freedom press. I will post a video later today with the micros we use.
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hey you did not include a freedom press. I will post a video later today with the micros we use.
I did not limit the post to presses that are listed in the poll, those are just presses that have videos so far or presses people said they would post a video of. I will change the poll when a new video is posted. The more videos the better.
Freedom is a good press. Its made about 15 mins from my shop. Great guys at Workhorse.
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here is my video probably will leave more questions than answers. i am a printer not a video guy ;)
freedom press micros (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp-GGO0sJDo#)
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The mhm features are really out of the others league all around. But out of the more traditional presses I do like the anatol micros a lot on our manual. They're identical to Donnie's but plastic knobs and you don't unlock a side. Theres almost no jump if you use them correctly and the side to side movement is truly linear. When I need to micro it's a simple left or right nudge 99% of the time. I love them compared to x-y style micros. I think it's crazy that anyone voted for m&r style x-y s, I hate that setup regardless of press brand- the movement sucks and then when you finally get it there it jumps when you lock it down. they can walk out of reg in a run too. So thats my vote- mhm and then the anatol style.
Do you need to back off the mhm ones after adjusting or does the spring loading take care of this?
just turn the micros and print...
Steve
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The mhm features are really out of the others league all around. But out of the more traditional presses I do like the anatol micros a lot on our manual. They're identical to Donnie's but plastic knobs and you don't unlock a side. Theres almost no jump if you use them correctly and the side to side movement is truly linear. When I need to micro it's a simple left or right nudge 99% of the time. I love them compared to x-y style micros. I think it's crazy that anyone voted for m&r style x-y s, I hate that setup regardless of press brand- the movement sucks and then when you finally get it there it jumps when you lock it down. they can walk out of reg in a run too. So thats my vote- mhm and then the anatol style.
Do you need to back off the mhm ones after adjusting or does the spring loading take care of this?
just turn the micros and print...
Steve
on some occasions, we don't even stop the press. They keep printing and I just turn the knobs and wait for them to put it on the belt.
pierre
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yeah yeah.. I'm slacking. The M&R works wonders when done correctly.. to many people lock the rear holder and then using the front micros to try and move a metal frame around. It walks as the metal frame wanting to return to it's natural position is stronger than the clamps holding it.
Gotcha on that John but my beef is with the fundamentals of the x-y/anti-droop plate system. You don't find it to be awkward having only the option to move in an arc or problematic when it jumps upon tightening?
Also, with M&R presses specifically, I've seen some listed as having front and back micros, how's that system work?
Pierre, that sounds too sweet. I feel that often we printers want to see it technically perfect whereas the client wouldn't even see the difference between the shirts before the small tweak and after. This sounds like a great way to scratch that itch without slowing things down.
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Sorry for the late entry, been a busy week but not for the good reasons like having a ton of jobs to print.
RPM Micro Functions.MOV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYtiqEE0lE#ws)
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Sorry for the late entry, been a busy week but not for the good reasons like having a ton of jobs to print.
RPM Micro Functions.MOV ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYtiqEE0lE#ws[/url])
Great video Alan. Thanks for posting it, I know you have been really busy. Your micros works almost exactly like the anatol press. Looks like a easy to use system.
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Sorry for the late entry, been a busy week but not for the good reasons like having a ton of jobs to print.
RPM Micro Functions.MOV ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwYtiqEE0lE#ws[/url])
Great video Alan. Thanks for posting it, I know you have been really busy. Your micros works almost exactly like the anatol press. Looks like a easy to use system.
Yeah, I've played with the micros on several different anatols at shows and shops and they are pretty close. There are some subtle differences but nothing that is a deal breaker either way. They move differently though, for whatever reason. It's basically the same but they use different components and parts. I really couldn't say which one is smoother or which one works better either, they both work really well and hopefully hold up well under years of production. Our centurian micros got really sloppy over time and they had tons of slack and backlash that sometimes you were purely guessing. They would also jump and move slightly when locking down the micros and you don't get any jumping or movement on the RPM.
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So who's got a MHM 4000 with Auto Reg to show?
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So who's got a MHM 4000 with Auto Reg to show?
That would be cool to see. Do we have big money guys on here???
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I think Rick Roth at Mirror Image has one of those presses, with the emphasis on "think"
Steve
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Anyone else want to post a video? We are still missing quite a few of the big manufactures here like TAS, M&R, Brown, Lawson, Progressive / Falcon.
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I have a Mhm 4000 with the auto reg and I will post a video on here tomorrow so everyone can see how they work, we also have an etype and if you like the etype micros than you will love the 4000s auto reg. For now here is a video of the press printing, its hard to show the actual micros but if you look there is a digital pad on each head and there are 6 arrows to micro the screen, essentially it's the same concept of the S-type but with the auto reg you know with out a doubt how far you are moving that screen when you touch up or down. If anyone asks we are double hitting the discharge underbase because its on a 255 mesh and its cmyk with 2 spots on dark.
http://www.youtube.com/v/zYMkww04vfk?hl=en_US& (http://www.youtube.com/v/zYMkww04vfk?hl=en_US&)
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i have a manual chameleon 8/8 with air clamps and i love the micors on it. They have the exact amount of resistance when you turn the knobs...nice and firm.
My ONLY wish is that there was only one knob to turn to push the screen inward or outward....if you never used one before , in order to move the screen outward and inward you have to turn the two "twist-screen-left-or-right" knobs in unison....and i have yet to pull a screen ONLY in or out...every time I do it i turn one knob to much or not enough and then have to now adjust the screen with the twist left or right.
did that make sense?
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i have a manual chameleon 8/8 with air clamps and i love the micors on it. They have the exact amount of resistance when you turn the knobs...nice and firm.
My ONLY wish is that there was only one knob to turn to push the screen inward or outward....if you never used one before , in order to move the screen outward and inward you have to turn the two "twist-screen-left-or-right" knobs in unison....and i have yet to pull a screen ONLY in or out...every time I do it i turn one knob to much or not enough and then have to now adjust the screen with the twist left or right.
did that make sense?
It makes perfect sense, and it's frustrating at times when having to make adjustments on the manual press compared to the auto.
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THAT'S why your breaking screens!!!! You're setting your freaking part on them!!! (Sorry, couldn't resist)
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lol. the auto reg video for the mhm4000 is private. Any way to make it not private? :D
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i have a manual chameleon 8/8 with air clamps and i love the micors on it. They have the exact amount of resistance when you turn the knobs...nice and firm.
My ONLY wish is that there was only one knob to turn to push the screen inward or outward....if you never used one before , in order to move the screen outward and inward you have to turn the two "twist-screen-left-or-right" knobs in unison....and i have yet to pull a screen ONLY in or out...every time I do it i turn one knob to much or not enough and then have to now adjust the screen with the twist left or right.
did that make sense?
It makes perfect sense, and it's frustrating at times when having to make adjustments on the manual press compared to the auto.
So its the same micro reg situation on a m&r auto like on a m&r manual?????
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i have a manual chameleon 8/8 with air clamps and i love the micors on it. They have the exact amount of resistance when you turn the knobs...nice and firm.
My ONLY wish is that there was only one knob to turn to push the screen inward or outward....if you never used one before , in order to move the screen outward and inward you have to turn the two "twist-screen-left-or-right" knobs in unison....and i have yet to pull a screen ONLY in or out...every time I do it i turn one knob to much or not enough and then have to now adjust the screen with the twist left or right.
did that make sense?
It makes perfect sense, and it's frustrating at times when having to make adjustments on the manual press compared to the auto.
So its the same micro reg situation on a m&r auto like on a m&r manual?????
They are different where it matters most and that's the width apart from the two like axis movements. The further apart those two are, the easier the micro movements are to judge. At least that's been my experience. It's all relative when comparing the micros on our auto to the sidewinder. I don't like one mainly because what I know is the best I've ever dealt with so take that into consideration.
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Yes side clamp do have the advantage there
being the longer leg. Rick F mentioned "true XY"
registration.
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I don't want my post to be construed as the manual's micros don't work, clearly they do or they wouldn't be on every manual that M&R has ever made, but you need to use a few "tricks" to make them work as well as they can. The threaded micros will do a great job in the end once you get used to using them where on our auto, the micros are much easier because you don't need as much time or experience to get them to work "true".