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screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: Gilligan on February 07, 2012, 01:44:45 PM
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So I'm about to pull the trigger on an order of bolt mesh.
Gonna get some 110, 160 (both of these are in white), 200 and 230 (in yellow).
I'm getting 110 even though I've never used it before... guess I should have some (glitter?)
This is all for a manual press 18x20 MZX's.
Should I get 305's or would that be almost useless on a manual?
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I dont know if you would be able to get a glitter through a 110. we use 24s for glitter, 86-110 for shimmers. 160 should be available in yellow. We've been using Sefar E-Mesh - but they dont seem to have a 24 or an 86:
http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=4§ionID=118&subSectionID=64&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=64&catTab=sub_section&productID=1059 (http://www.sourceoneonline.com/item.asp?categoryID=4§ionID=118&subSectionID=64&subSection2ID=0&subSection3ID=0&attrCatID=0&attrIDs=0&catID=64&catTab=sub_section&productID=1059)
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i would get 110`s 160`s 180`s yellow or 200`s yellow
give it a shoot with these meshes
i would not go beyond 200 on a manual
unless you are very strong muscle fella
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I go up to 230 and 260, but only on some finer halftoned jobs
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I'd get yellow mesh in everything, I hate white mesh. There usually isn't a cost difference so get the yellow. I don't think I've ever tried to print through a 305 on the manual press, we don't do much manual printing, but I'd bet it isn't easy. I've struggled to print a good ink through a 195 on the manual and had to get on top of it and use a ton of pressure. If I were manually printing a lot, I'd get S thread mesh from Murakami because the pressure needed to clear a 150/48 is roughly equivalent to an 86 Sefar pecap.
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Good to know (Glitter).
Unless you think they will price match Atlas (230 Mesh (45 Microns) 55" wide @ $12.76/yard for 10 yards for example) I can't justify the extra cost given I've never done this before and have LOTS of learning and mistakes to make... plus my shop is not setup to hand "fragile" mesh at ALL so I imagine I will bust a lot of mesh doing stupid things at first. Plus I'm getting 10% off being my first order... hence why I'm making sure I get as much as I "need" so I can take advantage of the discount.
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Is this extra pressure still a concern with the push method?
I feel like I can put a lot of force on the squeegee that way... but I of course have no clue what I'm doing... I know I see my buddy's guys using the pull stroke and STRUGGLING!
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110 for glitter, I use mostly 155, 200 and 230.
Just got some 305 to try CMYK.
I have printed white through 230 with no issues, but then again, I'm 6'5" and 240.
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Quote from Shout box,
"Frog, quick question not really worthy of a post I figured... as a simple single answer would satisfy such a trivial question".
Not so simple. eh? Lots of feedback
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Quote from Shout box,
"Frog, quick question not really worthy of a post I figured... as a simple single answer would satisfy such a trivial question".
Not so simple. eh? Lots of feedback
yeah yeah yeah... Granted, I haven't changed my shopping cart yet. :p
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We have run process ink through 355's on the manual but unless this is what your doing no sense to get it just to have it. We run glitter through 60's.
Push all the way, only pull to fill in sometimes. I had a guy working for me that thought pushing was a cardinal sin in the screen printing world, so at the end of the day when his back and arms were aching I'd ask him how the pull thing was working. Always gave me a dirty look. He didn't last very long.
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Assuming you're planning on doing the 305 mesh on the MZX's, I'd get some. I do 86,125,156,200,230, and 305, and although the 305's are a little tricky printing and prepress wise, as well as being very easy to damage, they will save your butt when someone brings in some kind of crazy detail they just HAVE to have on their (hopefully white) shirts. And although you can get into process with 230's, 305's will be easier to hold down your dot gain with.
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I print my white on black through 305's manually. Well, maybe not.
I have a pretty boring shop. We do 90% basic spot colors. I have printed almost everything through 110's and 160's (manual). I've used 200's a few times. If it is going on a dark shirt or white ink or metallic ink, I use 110's. Going on light shirts or an underbase, 160's. I've used 200's for heavy halftones (like a photo).
Even on the auto I seem to be using mostly 110 and 160. Although I do plan to experiment a little more with higher mesh counts soon.
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i would not go beyond 200 on a manual
unless you are very strong muscle fella
Well call me Popeye then. Aye gad a guy ga guy!
Seriously, you can go much higher than that printing manually with a proper pull to fill and push to print set of strokes. Same rules apply as auto printing I suppose so if yer press is not in parallel, your blade's not sharp, etc., etc. than it's not going to work at any mesh count.
+1 for S mesh on the manual. It's all I'm running right now and we go up to 330/30. I posted a pic awhile ago with opaque neon pink ink that flowed right through a 310/30 and hit both halftones and solid fill open areas. It's worth the extra effort to care for and adjust to this mesh and is one of the few products/methods that have changed how I work in the shop for the better and improved our print quality.
For first time stretching the newmans, don't stress it. If you really want, get some cheapo stuff to practice but it's okay to dive right in. This forces you to take each screen very seriously, especially when you get to your first higher mesh screens. What you don't want is a whole quiver of screens with cheap mesh that our underperforming compared to what you could have had for all that work. Don't skimp on this part of your setup, it's not worth it, not by a long shot. The labor to install and maintain is worth more than any of the mesh, so think about it that way.
I actually have a whole box of Murakami T (maybe a little HD which are slightly thicker threads) standard meshes. The hierarchy goes something like HD - T - (M? not sure on this one) - S - SS, from thick threads to thinner. Excellent stuff, very stable and durable. You could have the lot of it for a song or a trade if you like as I don't see myself using it now that I'm hooked on S. If you were to use it all as "practice" mesh your end result would still be a set of kick ass screens, not a set of well build screens with crappo mesh, which is kinda pointless as I said. Let me know.
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True but even crap mesh in a MZX is better than my crappy wooden statics or low tension aluminums.
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Good to know (Glitter).
Unless you think they will price match Atlas (230 Mesh (45 Microns) 55" wide @ $12.76/yard for 10 yards for example) I can't justify the extra cost given I've never done this before and have LOTS of learning and mistakes to make... plus my shop is not setup to hand "fragile" mesh at ALL so I imagine I will bust a lot of mesh doing stupid things at first. Plus I'm getting 10% off being my first order... hence why I'm making sure I get as much as I "need" so I can take advantage of the discount.
I will do that for $7.90 cents a yard. There would be a $10 cut fee as you are not getting the whole 40 yard bolt. So 10 yards of 230 dyed Italian mesh for $89 all in. Plus a little shipping.
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True but even crap mesh in a MZX is better than my crappy wooden statics or low tension aluminums.
I will remesh your crappy wood or static frames for you. Ask MK162 (Brad) about our quality.
Call me tomorrow and I will give you my pricing on other mesh counts.
Sonny
404-895-1796
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Hey Sonny, I may take you up on that offer... but Zoo is looking to do me right for now. If there are any holes in the catalog I'll get with you to fill them in.
As far as remeshing, shipping is just the killer there... I can't see doing it. Hell, I only paid $12 bucks each for the MZX's... hard to argue with that!
I'll probably be selling my statics unless someone can convince me why I should keep them. :)
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One reason to keep them, if they are decent, would be if there are any jobs that you would like to catalog.
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One reason to keep them, if they are decent, would be if there are any jobs that you would like to catalog.
I'm planning on "renting" my screens... $30 bucks for a year or maybe 18 months. At the end of that period they could renew or decide to pay the screen charge ($12 bucks) next time they want that job. That way it makes it more "acceptable" for me to tie up a roller for that long.
That is my thoughts right now at least.
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One reason to keep them, if they are decent, would be if there are any jobs that you would like to catalog.
I'm planning on "renting" my screens... $30 bucks for a year or maybe 18 months. At the end of that period they could renew or decide to pay the screen charge ($12 bucks) next time they want that job. That way it makes it more "acceptable" for me to tie up a roller for that long.
That is my thoughts right now at least.
That sounds scary. What if you have 200 screens "rented" that means you have to store them and have enough other screens to print. A local guy has 5000 square feet and he only have one auto and 3 manuals. The rest of the place is full of wood frames that people paid screen fees for. He holds them for 6 months then after that they have to pay the screen fee again. He has to have thousands of wood screens. Many have to be years over the 6 months and the customer have not been back.
If I was you do the same thing your thinking about doing just don't keep the screens with the designs on them. Reclaim them and if they reorder make the screen again. If you have some guys that do order alot keep them but the rest just reclaim. Just my 2 cents.
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If I was you do the same thing your thinking about doing just don't keep the screens with the designs on them. Reclaim them and if they reorder make the screen again. If you have some guys that do order alot keep them but the rest just reclaim. Just my 2 cents.
Two tricks... I don't have that many customers (yet) and two... that's what I planned on doing. If I really need them I'll reclaim them and just reburn them if I need to run them again.
It's like the "extended warranty" that you should never buy. You never use it but they got your cash! ;)
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The whole 'screen charge' = storing the actual screen concept is over. Let it go and avoid the warehouse of wooden frames.
What the hell is someone paying the fee for exactly in that sort of a setup? To get their job reprinted on some warped wooden frame that's been sitting in god knows what sort of hot/cold/humid/bone dry environment? I don't get it.
This is my case that I make to clients who are accustomed to the idea of their screens being filed away in other shops- we don't do it because quality suffers and you shouldn't have to think too hard about what's going on on our end as the printers. We price by the job at whatever size that job is, doesn't matter if it's a reprint and there's not screen charges anywhere on our invoice. And besides, actual, screen-for-screen reprints are a rare, rare bird in our shop.
That said, it does make sense to file some jobs on stable, work-hardened screens but I would expect to toss that mesh when it's all said and done. I would like to do this as funds are available for new screens since we have a pre-print line that involves constant printing of the same, fairly simple, low-color designs.
Instead, check out the pin-lock system. It uses carrier sheets and you can easily file those carriers, pop 'em back on the fresh screens and there you go. Takes up way less space, your screens stay in rotation and are getting retensioned consistently. If someone buys the 'extended warranty' break out the good film and take your time in pre-reg. Your costs will be far lower here as well so you can actually reap some earnings from the 'ol warranty program.
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Gilligan, PM me an address, I'll send you a few pieces of 305 that will fit your Newmans so you can try it out. 305's on a manual are totally do-able with the right ink and seps, but the detail needs to warrant it.
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We use 305's on a manual all the time. Dark inks on light/white shirts is no problem. Plus having 4 or 5 to run the occasional CMYK job is nice. And being 6'4" 275lbs and using a push stroke doesn't hurt either.
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I'm surprised no one (including me) has mentioned it, but start out with the lower mesh--save that 230 and 305 until you've done a couple dozen, retensioned them, and popped some. Your checkbook will thank you.
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I'm surprised no one (including me) has mentioned it, but start out with the lower mesh--save that 230 and 305 until you've done a couple dozen, retensioned them, and popped some. Your checkbook will thank you.
Noted, thanks!