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Computers and Software => Separation Programs => Topic started by: Denis Kolar on February 13, 2012, 05:19:38 PM
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Hi there. More questions from me.
Which separation software are you using and what do you like about it?
I was looking at Ultra Sept, T-Seps, Quick seps, Wilflex Easy Art......... No particular order.
I'm thinking about pulling the trigger and buying something. It is not that I will be doing a lot if advanced stuff, but if I could save 10-20 hours in next year, I would be ready to spend few hundred bucks.
Please do not answer "I use Dan", or "I use My Seps guy" or something like that. I know that Dan and other guys are great, but I need something that I can access at any time ag get the seps in few minutes. If something more complicated comes up, I will give them a call and outsource printing to someone else if the order is bigger. ( ;) P)
Thanks
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Dan is the best at what he does in the sep world. Quick seps plug in for photoshop works pretty dang good with some adjustments here and there.
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Don't all of the options besides Dan offer a free trial?
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QuikSeps Pro. Can't say that it's better or worse than the others, as it's the only one I've ever used. I originally bought it new off eBay for $150, when Fresener was selling his product for substantially more. The one thing Fresener's latest set of actions are alleged to have are process on dark shirts, which I've pulled off in tests, but it'd be nice to have something quick and dirty to use if only for a good starting place. The one thing I'd like to see is stochastic process color plug-ins or actions for Photoshop with an underbase and highlight.
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I use easyart and quik seps. There are features of both I like better than the other. Overall, EasyArt is easier to use.
But, even owning both of those programs...I use dan. I don't have to jack around with the prints once they are on the press. Set it up and done. It's a matter of how much your time is worth.
If I had the time, I'd learn how to better sep
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but I need something that I can access at any time and get the seps in few minutes.
HA! Ok. Seriously, it's a pipe dream. None of them are push button without tweaking so there goes the few minutes dream. You can have any of them do what they do by pushing the button and some do use the seps (as is). That don't mean they are good but hey, many people print that stuff as is and sell shirts so, why not you as well. Even Mark Coudray's (out of the can) seps need tweaking before using. To get his "pro seps" you need to pay $25.00- $50.00 per color for the high end stuff.
I cant't say what one is best for the price as they seem to all be pretty much equal in end result. Just add skills to each one to enhance them. They are a tool to speed up the process for many people.
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I started with easyart -and found out it ain't any easier. I now do my own in PS. . I would save the coin and start watching all the youtube vids you can find on manual seps in PS. . .you will be way ahead. . not to say those programs are bad or anything, Wayne just bought something he was telling me he liked, I forgot what it was, maybe he'll chime in here. . .I run a little different than most, I want to be in control, I don't like waiting for people and I don't like excuse why it's not done -so I do it all myself. . .maybe not the right way all the time, but if I fail, it's at my own hand -not because someone forgot to send the e-mail. . .on the other hand, sending out does free up a ton of time for you to focus on what you know, or to better hone your craft and let the experts like Dan take care of the rest. . not what you wanted to hear, I know, but probably the best way to go. . .
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I like the 'Make custom channel" action in easy art. I use that to do my own seps. I am sure there is a good action for free on that one.
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@ Homer,
I had to check my emails to see if you were talking about me. ;D My excuse for not getting an email out on time was true. ;) It was all Pierre's fault for playing with my computer and installing stuff while I was at his shop. ;) Although, I have been known to forget something now and then. :-[
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Thanks guys..... and Dan :)
Yes, I know that tere is a need to tweak som stuff to get the good seps with the programs like that. I'm not great with PS , but I can get around. I'm much more comfortable with Illy and InDesign.
Dan, I know that there is no magic button to make seps, but with having a full time job, having to deal with my private business (printing, embroidering, web design......) and with having two small boys and wanting to spend some time with them, any savings on time and money is a big plus. If I can get away with doing a simple 4-5 color seps in 20-25 minutes instead of an hour, I'll take it. If I get jobs that are 7-8 colors, I would not even attempt to separate them and I can not even print them. That is where someone like you and Pierre come in.
I know that first thing I need is a RIP, I'm looking at the FilmMaker for Epson 1100. After that, I will try some of the sep software and see where it goes.
Thanks guys again, if someone else wants to share something, I'm eager to hear more.
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I would say even thought you said not to...go with a pro...we have two in house artists that are awesome, but subbing it out works much better....we know it is going to work on the press...we are trying to get more and more sim process work, and until we are doing 4-5 a week we will keep subbing it....we are thinking of having Dan come up and do what he did with Pierre to us....
sam
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Sam, why don't you just hire Dan? He can be like a kept woman. ;D
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I use fast films. It was simple to learn and the more you use it the better you get. Yes I have outsourced films but that is because i was in a crunch for time and the job was big enough to allow for the cost.
But a little of my background is that I started screenprint and art 11 years ago and did tons of r&d to get to where I am at. It is ironic that I started with corel for all art then went to photo shop because of fastfilms and now I am back in corel and creating all of the thing I did in photoshop but now in vector in corel. Both have there advantages. I am now in the process of learning illustrator.
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Also Ultraseps.....newer and better. And yes you can try a demo.
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Dear MK162
I doesn`t matter what sep software you try
you can start with the one most printers prefer
you know what is a printable dot you can hold
and stick to the one you enjoy working with
just a thought
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that is true, but ease of use is a major factor.
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Well, I learned before the sep packages came out, but I do like QuikSeps Pro, and have installed the newer UltraSeps upgrade, but haven't had time to use it just yet, waiting for the next image that needs it. They are OK right out, but you will notice stuff on press and see why most of us say to tweak the files, and experience is everything on this, so go for it. But if you need something quick, and excellent, Dan has done that for me too. When one of my artists was on vacation last year, and I was too busy, that was the route I went, and I had it in the morning. So, maybe it depends on the situation at the moment...
Steve
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I use Quikseps - it gives good results. I have also tried a trial version of T-seps - also not bad, something better than something worse, but still every design need to be corrected. so that we can safely opt for Ultraseps! All the best.
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I just downloaded the Separation Studio. Ran few images through it and had a smorgasbord of results.
the good:
user interface
speed
usable results (from what I can tell).
Crips! with a capitol C.
the bad:
almost all the results required tweaking in the curves.
does not work well with other than black background (unless I am missing something).
please remember, I only had about six hours with it so far and there might be stuff that I am missing.
For example, I have a print going on the green shirt and the program is leaving the dark areas open assuming a black background. This is now coming through as green rather than black.
The results for the piece we are printing are actually remarkably crisp. Sufficiently enough that I am considering buying it. I will keep playing with it for few more days and hopefully remember to update.
Pretty sure I would print it as generated on the first pass, but still it looks like it could be a game changer!
pierre
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Crips! with a capitol C.
Shoot, those folks are as bad as the Bloods.
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LOL, that was supposed to say Crisp!
pj
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Its on sale from Ryonet for $795
http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/spot_process_separation_studio (http://www.silkscreeningsupplies.com/spot_process_separation_studio)
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Right now on a local Craigslist, near Worcester, MA, where Sam is, a guy is selling a 1400, and a copy of AccuRIP for $200... that's dirt cheap
Steve
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QuikSeps Pro...........hey pierre u doing a little moonlighting on Dan with the sep software? :o
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QuikSeps Pro...........hey pierre u doing a little moonlighting on Dan with the sep software? :o
yeah, we needed something done right away and Dan was not available so I gave it a try!
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I was forced to learn photoshop , it's pretty simple to learn the basics, especially when I offer 24 hr turn
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I have a print going on the green shirt and the program is leaving the dark areas open assuming a black background. This is now coming through as green rather than black.
Previous versions had 3 different black plates to choose from. Find the one you prefer for lights and darks a adjust to your liking.
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I have a print going on the green shirt and the program is leaving the dark areas open assuming a black background. This is now coming through as green rather than black.
Previous versions had 3 different black plates to choose from. Find the one you prefer for lights and darks a adjust to your liking.
thanx! tried that, but will revisit and spend a little more time with it. We'll make it work in the end . . .
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yo@ MK what separation software did you end up buying
just curious?
i might be looking for some software for sepping as well
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Just my .02 here.
Quick background... I have been doing color seperations since the winter of 2000. I went through 4 sep programs in 6 months before I gave up in frustration and taught myself how to sep by hand and how to automate the begining portion of what I do, all in order to acheive a superior product.
Dan has it right. There is not a single sep program available that you will not have to spend 15 minutes to an hour fixing the results of.
I have personally watched several images almost dissapear through push button programs. This is due to the pre-programmed set of curves and adjustments those programs do during thier color generating process.
Push button sep programs are all very very very image dependant for the results you want. The brighter and more saturated the image, the better your results are. The more "primary" your colors are (in the RGB computer color spectrum) the better your seperation will be.
With that said, the more popular programs have a better user interface. Go with the one that gives you the best customer service and walkthrough.
Just understand that you will not be saving as much time as you hope to with your purchase. But yes, you will save some time :)
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Just my .02 here.
Quick background... I have been doing color seperations since the winter of 2000. I went through 4 sep programs in 6 months before I gave up in frustration and taught myself how to sep by hand and how to automate the begining portion of what I do, all in order to acheive a superior product.
Dan has it right. There is not a single sep program available that you will not have to spend 15 minutes to an hour fixing the results of.
I have personally watched several images almost dissapear through push button programs. This is due to the pre-programmed set of curves and adjustments those programs do during thier color generating process.
Push button sep programs are all very very very image dependant for the results you want. The brighter and more saturated the image, the better your results are. The more "primary" your colors are (in the RGB computer color spectrum) the better your seperation will be.
With that said, the more popular programs have a better user interface. Go with the one that gives you the best customer service and walkthrough.
Just understand that you will not be saving as much time as you hope to with your purchase. But yes, you will save some time :)
Colin,
did you by any chance check out ICISS?
pierre
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I have both EasyArt and QuikSeps. Neither is perfect, but the shortcuts are nice.
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Pierre,
ICISS is an awesome program akin to photoshop. What Coudray had the programmers of that program do is frikin awesome.
Easiest way I can explain it is: It basically allows you to change the RGB color spectrum - Example R:255 G:000 B:000 for a solid RGB red - into a specified color pallet, typically pantone colors that YOU CHOOSE, as many as you want. You want 12 colors, program in 12 colors. You want 7 colors, program in 7 colors. Not just the 6 that are available (internally) in Photoshop. You program the curve adjustments you want each color generated to have and voila! Beginner seps in the color pallet you have asked for. And yes, you still need to tweak them for awesome prints. The seps you get from Coudray are from this program and like Dan said, you still need to tweak them unless you pay extra.
A old customer of mine here in Seattle has the program, so I took the chance a few years ago to ask him about it and give me a quick walkthrough. If I could (easily) aford it..... I would get it! I just looked at their site... It contains less info than the last time I looked about 10 years ago. Is it still priced around 10k?
End result, a superior seperation tool that quickly gets you to a pre-selected set of colors that you then, with your screen printing knowledge, make into press ready films. But I am not sold on the cost Vs. return for the average shop, you need to be using the program several times a day to see a reasonable return IMO.
Colin
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Pierre,
ICISS is an awesome program akin to photoshop. What Coudray had the programmers of that program do is frikin awesome.
Easiest way I can explain it is: It basically allows you to change the RGB color spectrum - Example R:255 G:000 B:000 for a solid RGB red - into a specified color pallet, typically pantone colors that YOU CHOOSE, as many as you want. You want 12 colors, program in 12 colors. You want 7 colors, program in 7 colors. Not just the 6 that are available (internally) in Photoshop. You program the curve adjustments you want each color generated to have and voila! Beginner seps in the color pallet you have asked for. And yes, you still need to tweak them for awesome prints. The seps you get from Coudray are from this program and like Dan said, you still need to tweak them unless you pay extra.
A old customer of mine here in Seattle has the program, so I took the chance a few years ago to ask him about it and give me a quick walkthrough. If I could (easily) aford it..... I would get it! I just looked at their site... It contains less info than the last time I looked about 10 years ago. Is it still priced around 10k?
End result, a superior seperation tool that quickly gets you to a pre-selected set of colors that you then, with your screen printing knowledge, make into press ready films. But I am not sold on the cost Vs. return for the average shop, you need to be using the program several times a day to see a reasonable return IMO.
Colin
hey Colin,
yes it is still expensive. The quote I got from Mark is about $15k.
My thinking is, a program like that is just like another piece of equipment. It speeds up the production and when it's paid off, there is equity built up. Another advantage is being able to bring the seps back in house. Dan is often so busy that he can not get to the stuff as soon as I'd like him to. This is not a knock on him, as it always gets done, but it would provide us with a little more flexibility with scheduling.
Do you know if there is a difference between what Mark is selling and the version on the European market? Theirs is a little cheaper. . .
pierre
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Wow!
My quote when I was emiling the company directly was just under 10k.... 10 years ago ;)
From what I remember of the discussions at the time, the price was flexible depending on the salesman you were talking to. But Mark could very well have the North American rights to distribute the program. The company who makes it is based out of the UK so....
However, if you can aford it (eep), you do enough sim-process work, and you want to spend the time to learn an amazing tool for color seperations you may want to pull the trigger.
How much high end/sim-process work do you do on a daily/weekly basis?
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Wow!
My quote when I was emiling the company directly was just under 10k.... 10 years ago ;)
From what I remember of the discussions at the time, the price was flexible depending on the salesman you were talking to. But Mark could very well have the North American rights to distribute the program. The company who makes it is based out of the UK so....
However, if you can aford it (eep), you do enough sim-process work, and you want to spend the time to learn an amazing tool for color seperations you may want to pull the trigger.
How much high end/sim-process work do you do on a daily/weekly basis?
we print simulated process about every other day, but most of it is reorders. We are still a very, very small shop (about 200k impressions per year). My guess is, maybe one job a week that would benefit from the software.
Yes, you are right, it is hard to justify it now. I just want to stay educated and get as much feedback as possible before we pull the trigger on it. I figure, we are about two years away from buying it, year and a half with a little bit of luck.
pierre
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Ah, yea. One new sep a week is not nearly enough work to justify that price :)
Hopefully soon though ;)
Colin
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Dan is often so busy that he can not get to the stuff as soon as I'd like him to. This is not a knock on him, as it always gets done, but it would provide us with a little more flexibility with scheduling.
Thats the trouble with doing good work. The better you are, the busier you get and then sooner or later, you don't have enough time to do it all and people turn to automation and the next thing you know, your selling boiled peanuts and watermelon on the road side.
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Or hiring some employees... ha ha ha, you're gonna love that.
Steve
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We've been happy with Separation Studio so far. It does require some tweaking to get the best results. BUT, it is still very quick.
Here are some examples of ones we have printed from it:
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0822.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0911.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0824.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_1060.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0955.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0891.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0817.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0810.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0801.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0542.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0540.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0489.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0446.jpg)
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0305.jpg)
Now I dont suggest these are all perfect, hell probably all could be improved even. BUT, these are at the very worst good results.
We did also use Dan for a sep just to try him out. Was happy as well:
(http://www.graphicdisorder.com/gallery/uploads/Silkscreening/SAM_0255.jpg)
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Nice prints. As with any of the sep programs out there it is best to know how to manually do the separations yourself in order to get the most out of these programs. As mentioned above, highly saturated, primary colored designs sep the best. If you know how to do these types of separations manually, these programs will save hours on color separating by giving you a good foundation to start with. I learned to do all these separation types manually before even thinking about these programs. I purchased on of the first Fast Film's back in the day which now I believe is called T Seps. Running a couple sep routines will save me on average around 1-2 hours worth of time yet no matter what design, I spend on average 1-2 hours after running a routine cleaning up, adjusting and pulling my own colors.
As long as you don't take these progs as a "easy button" you will yield some great separations. Most if not all will yield a decent separation yet if you want a great separation you need to know the basics of extracting and merging as well as a good knowledge of Color Theory.
Color Separations is an Art in itself and should be treated as such. Check out Impressions and Printwear magazines online and search for the previous articles on color separations. You will find a ton of great info at your fingertips. I have been keeping articles from these magazines that go way back to when the magazines were twice the size they are now. It is actually interesting seeing all the greats info evolve from 16 years ago to now. ALso, The WWW is another great place as you can find all sorts of info and tutorials.
Keep the Ink Moving......
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Pierre,
ICISS is an awesome program akin to photoshop. What Coudray had the programmers of that program do is frikin awesome.
A old customer of mine here in Seattle has the program, so I took the chance a few years ago to ask him about it and give me a quick walkthrough. If I could (easily) aford it..... I would get it! I just looked at their site... It contains less info than the last time I looked about 10 years ago. Is it still priced around 10k?
Colin
http://printplanet.com/forums/prepress-workflow-discussion/17841-metal-fx-alternative-5-color-seps/2 (http://printplanet.com/forums/prepress-workflow-discussion/17841-metal-fx-alternative-5-color-seps/2)