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screen printing => Tips and Tricks to Share (Please don't ask questions here) => Topic started by: Frog on May 06, 2011, 02:58:04 PM
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I try to never mix designs, even when they fit, from the same job, typically front and back. Even when trying to save screens, whenever possible, I try to mix up the jobs, to prevent the need for a re-setup when a shirt is found to be defective after the second print has been made.
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On the other side of that when we were rocking and rolling running autos and making money, we ganged a lot of drops, left chests etc., and ran those manually, pritner loved it that she could drop 4-6 orders and not go chasing screens.. even if the drops were diffent colors she worked with it.. We did a lot of 144 or more of a desing and then broke that out into smaller orders per ship and hence 144 could have 3-4 different drops..
dlac
mostly I am just writng this stuff to get to ten...
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We mix frequently, but one does have to be careful.
Steve
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I try not to burn any screens with just one image on them. I typically put a large and small image on the same screen, and if they are different jobs, I try to have them similar in color, but if I can't get close to a color match, I'll just clean out the ink. It takes us all different labor times for a single screen to be put through a production cycle, but anytime I can cut down the number of screens we put into production I will do it.
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Well, as I said, I do gang, I just try to not mix from the same job to reduce the chance of having to set up again if a shirt gets screwed up or is found to be defective when running the second side, or upon folding. Unllike Terry, I do find a bad one in every case or two. >:(
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We don't gang either. Seems like it was just faster to throw another screen in there when we moved to the tri-loc. I don't do ink washups either. takes forever to clean those things, and now we just throw another screen on the press and go. back before we went with a dip tank we ganged like crazy and would do washups...not anymore.
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We don't gang either. Seems like it was just faster to throw another screen in there when we moved to the tri-loc. I don't do ink washups either. takes forever to clean those things, and now we just throw another screen on the press and go. back before we went with a dip tank we ganged like crazy and would do washups...not anymore.
This is the sanest thing to do with todays turn and burn production strategies.
Take advantage of technology and buy your time, don't try and save it by creating more work for yourself.
If you want to save money, improve the process the money is being spent on.
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We don't gang either. Seems like it was just faster to throw another screen in there when we moved to the tri-loc. I don't do ink washups either. takes forever to clean those things, and now we just throw another screen on the press and go. back before we went with a dip tank we ganged like crazy and would do washups...not anymore.
This is the sanest thing to do with todays turn and burn production strategies.
Take advantage of technology and buy your time, don't try and save it by creating more work for yourself.
If you want to save money, improve the process the money is being spent on.
I agree, you only have to mess up one job with ganging screens and that lost production time will more than pay for five or more jobs worth of screens.
An example, you have a mixed shop of manual and automatic, the automatic is full (according to schedule) and you give a set of ganged screens to the manual press, an overrun of 500 shirts. The automatic gets free by producing faster than scheduled and the six color back is on the screens the manual is printing...
How about mistakes, missed shirts, shirt flaws, and set-up times?
I propose that screens are inexpensive for us here in the US compared to labor and production costs.
There is always a risk one is money in the screens the other is money in production of the two screens are less expensive.
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I gang a lot of different prints together because I'm thinking I will save time & money ganging and I may only be working on a couple of jobs to do this with. This has caused me problems here and there, when it works it's great, but you cannot underestimate the stupid things a printer can do.
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Well, my method is a compromise. Gang, if you wish, but gang from different jobs.
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we try to gang jobs as follows,
mentally, (no smart a$$ comments here please) we see a strip acorss the top of the screen that holds left chest logos, we can sometimes can get 3 across on our MZX frames. lets say it is a 4 inch high by screen width area.
The next block down is for a back or front print or whatever, it starts just below the imaginary 4 inch strip and offers the rest of the screen.
we typically look at the jobs ready for burn and pile on as much as we can in the zones. The more we fill the happier we are sometimes we get 4 jobs on one screen sometimes we get just one. It all depends on what is up , on deck, what lines up etc. Sometines the mesh is wrong when the ganging is right or the ink changes just don't make time sense or I am in a fog and just can't think straight.
The only hard rule we have is like Frog we don't gang the same job in one screen we have learned the hard way on this.
respectfully
mooseman
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Something similar for manual machines:
http://www.screenprinting-aspa.com/2009/02/how-to-print-a-three-color-print-with-just-two-screens/ (http://www.screenprinting-aspa.com/2009/02/how-to-print-a-three-color-print-with-just-two-screens/)
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We're bass ackwards. We actually try to get the same colors of the front, back or sleeve of the same job on the same screens. Especially if it's going to be a repeat custy.
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We gang everything we can. We don't have any issues with doing so, and every time we gang a design we save one screen. That one screen doesn't have to be reclaimed, coated, exposed, taped, etc. and over the course of a year, we might save thousands of screens by ganging. I understand why some shops don't, cause it really doesn't take long to just slap another screen on the press rather than flip the screen or do a color change, but I think of it by looking at the entire process that you don't have to do by saving a screen. I'd like to know how long each shop spends on one screen to go through the entire production process?
A minute to coat
3 minutes to expose & washout
A few minutes to dry
1-2 minutes to tape up
5 minutes to reclaim
I figure that for each screen put into production, it takes 15-20 minutes of labor, no telling how little or how much chemicals go into that screen, maybe several dollars worth overall. I would rather save that 15-20 minutes by ganging screens since for whatever reason, we don't have to deal with any issues that arise from ganging some jobs. It takes only a few minutes to do a color change or to flip the screen and tape up the old image, so to me, it saves us more time by saving a screen from the production process.
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We gang everything we can. We don't have any issues with doing so, and every time we gang a design we save one screen. That one screen doesn't have to be reclaimed, coated, exposed, taped, etc. and over the course of a year, we might save thousands of screens by ganging. I understand why some shops don't, cause it really doesn't take long to just slap another screen on the press rather than flip the screen or do a color change, but I think of it by looking at the entire process that you don't have to do by saving a screen. I'd like to know how long each shop spends on one screen to go through the entire production process?
A minute to coat
3 minutes to expose & washout
A few minutes to dry
1-2 minutes to tape up
5 minutes to reclaim
I figure that for each screen put into production, it takes 15-20 minutes of labor, no telling how little or how much chemicals go into that screen, maybe several dollars worth overall. I would rather save that 15-20 minutes by ganging screens since for whatever reason, we don't have to deal with any issues that arise from ganging some jobs. It takes only a few minutes to do a color change or to flip the screen and tape up the old image, so to me, it saves us more time by saving a screen from the production process.
I guess it would depend on where that time is coming from. If you're doing a color change and the press is waiting, I don't think you're saving any money. If you gang and all the color changing and retaping, etc is done off press with another job being run during that time perhaps you are saving money. We used to gang everything, but don't do it anymore. I personally would rather just throw another screen on and get to printing. I do the same thing for color changes as well.
I'd guess I have around 12 minutes into each screen.
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I gang like colors mainly, it saves a lot of time. If I had to wash out screens to change the color, it wouldn't save much time.
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We gang everything we can. We don't have any issues with doing so, and every time we gang a design we save one screen. That one screen doesn't have to be reclaimed, coated, exposed, taped, etc. and over the course of a year, we might save thousands of screens by ganging. I understand why some shops don't, cause it really doesn't take long to just slap another screen on the press rather than flip the screen or do a color change, but I think of it by looking at the entire process that you don't have to do by saving a screen. I'd like to know how long each shop spends on one screen to go through the entire production process?
A minute to coat
3 minutes to expose & washout
A few minutes to dry
1-2 minutes to tape up
5 minutes to reclaim
I figure that for each screen put into production, it takes 15-20 minutes of labor, no telling how little or how much chemicals go into that screen, maybe several dollars worth overall. I would rather save that 15-20 minutes by ganging screens since for whatever reason, we don't have to deal with any issues that arise from ganging some jobs. It takes only a few minutes to do a color change or to flip the screen and tape up the old image, so to me, it saves us more time by saving a screen from the production process.
I guess it would depend on where that time is coming from. If you're doing a color change and the press is waiting, I don't think you're saving any money. If you gang and all the color changing and retaping, etc is done off press with another job being run during that time perhaps you are saving money. We used to gang everything, but don't do it anymore. I personally would rather just throw another screen on and get to printing. I do the same thing for color changes as well.
I'd guess I have around 12 minutes into each screen.
This comes down the the answer no screen printer wants to see - it depends.
I hate that answer myself but it is far too often true some things that are great savers for a small shop would make a larger shop go broke in short order.
This also brings up what I refer to as active and passive tasks active tasks cost labor dollars passive tasks on the other hand only cost labor dollars in the movement in and out and of course whatever the energy, water, or supplies cost.
This idea of targeting each task and review the effects of your methods in relation to the total process is important and you will find that each person is different at the same task. I am slow and meticulous by nature, this works great for art production or fine tasks that take skill and planning, not so great for production, again targeting your needs will be necessary.
Part of our problem in the industry is the desire for cut-and-dried cookie-cutter answers for everything and it often does not exist, we have facts we work with, like photo emulsion exposure and chemical reactions, and then we have process implementation and that second part becomes contentious and problematic.
There is nothing inherently wrong with “ganging” screens, we use the same sets of products in a set way to produce the stencils, how that fits into each shop or even each printing team is now at question. To add to this problem is the fact that things change - inks, emulsion, individual workers, locations, equipment, and customer demands all change and to have intrenched inflexible procedures will only make things difficult.
Change, exploration, and pursuit of information has been my central theme for 11 years now, every shop could benefit from stepping back and analyzing the procedures set in place. If a time, supply, or step saving procedure cost more later in the process then the savings is nullified or even becomes a liability - you have to keep looking for this constantly and this changes as you grow and change.
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We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.
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We ( I ) gang all the time, unless the next few jobs are 'up in the air' due to whatever.
Nice tip Andy, forgot to respond before.
I guess I've been doing the same thing, but not consciously.
Now I make a point of it.
Thanks.
:)
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We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.
We found a tube of ruby lith and have cut several pieces of different lengths. We put the sep on a carrier and put the carrier on the pins. Then we cover most of the rest of the area with a piece of ruby lith. We burn one end then change the art, flip the screen around an we're ready to burn the other end.
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We gang when we can, mostly a left chest print with the like color for the back. Generally we pin the full back (tri lock) and tape the left chest the old school way. I havent figured out how to tri-lock both.
We found a tube of ruby lith and have cut several pieces of different lengths. We put the sep on a carrier and put the carrier on the pins. Then we cover most of the rest of the area with a piece of ruby lith. We burn one end then change the art, flip the screen around an we're ready to burn the other end.
Steve.....Why not burn it all in one shot? Is it because of the pre-registration?
BTW nice comments from Doug. Well thought out. I don't consult anymore but when I did I used that approach often. Its common to see printers and Production Managers switch jobs and try to make immediate change based on what worked for them elsewhere. That can quickly lead to failure. I've at times been asked (and asked others) "If you were to run this place starting tomorrow what would you change first?"
The answer is..........nothing. Observe and record. Postulate the consequences of implementing change. Proceed with caution.
tp
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Yes, it's because we want to use the tri loc pins on both ends. We could tape the 'other' end the old school way but that would be defeating the tri loc. Even though we're shooting it twice we've still got only one screen in the production loop. It won't work on the screens with the sqaure bar on the bottom because the bolts get in the way. Well it'll work but that screen will be out by about the depth of the bolt heads and that's too much of a pain to try and dial in.