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screen printing => Newbie => Topic started by: Du Manchu on March 20, 2012, 09:59:08 PM
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Hello Gang. My first post here......
I just purchased Mr. Tee's Hopkins 4/4 press and dryer and I'm gearing up to dive (back) into this crazy industry, but I've forgotten quite a bit. I want to buy about 12 aluminum frame screens, but I'm not sure what variety of mesh counts to order and why/when to use them. Yes, it's a loaded question, but can someone post an opinion on the matter.
An opinion on newbie squeegie selection would help also.
I plan to do the simple jobs starting out, and farm out the complex and larger jobs to some auto guys locally.
Many thanks,
Dewey
Memphis, TN
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110 and 180 mesh and 70 duro squeeze will get you ready to go for 90% of jobs.
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Hey Dewey! Glad to see ya made it home, and found the good folks here at TSB!
I realized after you left there were a LOT of things I meant to tell you about....but I'll start with the screens. Essentially, lower mesh screens will lay down more ink when its needed and allow thicker inks (such as most whites) to pass thru the mesh more easily, but you may be limited on the amount of detail you are able to image in the screen. Conversely, the higher mesh screens will lay down less ink but can hold more detail. If you are looking to start with 12 screens, I would start with a good mix of the common ones and experiment from there. I would suggest maybe two 110's, four 160's, three 200's and three 230s. As you progress and learn, you will figure what you need more of as you expand your collection. I order from GM Graphics/Rhinotough when they run a good special... http://www.rhinotoughgraphics.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1_7_9 (http://www.rhinotoughgraphics.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=1_7_9) . I am goint to try these guys next time I order, they have really good prices as well... http://www.aaframes.com/store/ (http://www.aaframes.com/store/)
SOME OTHER THINGS WE FORGOT TO DISCUSS:
-If you are going to a waterbased pallet glue, BE sure to use a pallet mask tape before applying. That way you can just peel the tape off when it gets dirty and start anew. That glue is darn near impossible to clean off of the boards otherwise. Something like this is what I use... http://www.texsourceonline.com/p-669-pallet-paper-18-x-100yd.aspx (http://www.texsourceonline.com/p-669-pallet-paper-18-x-100yd.aspx)
-If you go the inkjet route for film (like the Epson 1400 I use), you will need to use inkjet film. Many of us here get ours from Fixxons... http://fixxons.com/1/online.html. (http://fixxons.com/1/online.html.) I use the 13x19 sheets, and cut them in half if the image isnt tall. If you get the 1400, let me know and I will help you out with the settings.
-here is the emulsion I use, not the fastest but a good price and easy to expose...http://www.texsourceonline.com/p-179-xenon-plastisol-903-wr-emulsion.aspx (http://www.texsourceonline.com/p-179-xenon-plastisol-903-wr-emulsion.aspx)
Let me know if I can help with any more info!
OH, and for the the rest of the TSB'ers here...Dewey and I managed to disassemble both my Hopkins 4/4 AND a 30-inch Vastex EC1 with EIGHT AND A HALF FEET worth of conveyor crammed into the cargo area of a small Honda SUV. It was like playing Tetris, but noisier.... ;D. Dewey, do you mind if I show the pictures I took?
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WOW, those AA frames are priced great.
Do not make a same mistake as I did and get a bunch of 110, I ended up selling most of them.
I love printing white with 155 or 200, a lot smoother and lighter feel to it.
I would agree with Mr. Tees on screen selection.
Pallet tape is a must and water-based glue. Fixxons is great, I use their 13x19 waterproof on my Epson 1100. It is a bit cheeper than 1400, you can get it for around $100-$120. I love Chromaline emulsions and use Rutland StreetFighter white ink, all other inks I use are WM Plastics
Good luck and WELCOME!!!
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I am glad to have been recommended to the community, and really appreciate the guidance!
Mr. Tee's, go ahead and post those photos, as they are astounding, hilarious, and rather dangerous. I wouldn't recommend 9 hours of rattling, clanking metal, but the volume knob cured most of it.
Thanks again,
Dewey
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If your getting 12 this is what I would do. I hate 110's I only have one in my shot and has been siting with out emulsion for months.
6) 123 - low detail, solid spot colors that need coverage
4) 156 - I like these in white mesh, higher detail maybe some large halftone (I do up to 42 LPI on these)
2) 230 - high detail, halftones and anything else that does not need heavy ink coverage
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If your getting 12 this is what I would do. I hate 110's I only have one in my shot and has been siting with out emulsion for months.
6) 123 - low detail, solid spot colors that need coverage
4) 156 - I like these in white mesh, higher detail maybe some large halftone (I do up to 42 LPI on these)
2) 230 - high detail, halftones and anything else that does not need heavy ink coverage
Totally agree. Tubelite should be able to get you these. They are local.
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start off with roller frames...why not do it right from the start...
get 156 mesh and 230 and you will be golden...
but then again you can do it anyway you want..
sam
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I use primarily 110 and 160 on the manual. A lot of people don't use 110's. I want to know what they are doing to get white ink through a 160 without killing themselves. I would say get 5-110, 5-160, and 2-230.
After you get the feel for which mesh counts you prefer and when, buy Newman's. You can definitely get by with static frames as many do, but I honestly don't know why people do.
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start off with roller frames...why not do it right from the start...
get 156 mesh and 230 and you will be golden...
but then again you can do it anyway you want..
sam
I will agree with this.
I struggled with trying to find good screens for over a year. Now I have 25 Newmans and I could not be happier with them.
Last night I almost had perfect white without flash/print through 156 mesh. 2 strokes with 60/90/60 through 35 Ncm tensioned screen looked pretty close to passable white print. I hit it one more time just to be sure :)
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I use primarily 110 and 160 on the manual. A lot of people don't use 110's. I want to know what they are doing to get white ink through a 160 without killing themselves. I would say get 5-110, 5-160, and 2-230.
I still use 110's when a job is p/f/p exclusively on fleece. Otherwise, most whites that I have seen for the last few years, are way more printable than their predecessors, and print through a 160 pretty well. If not, the same advice as always given, a little ink modification if it helps it clear the screen.
Perhaps a compromise and a 125-140 would find use in your shop as well.
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If your getting 12 this is what I would do. I hate 110's I only have one in my shot and has been siting with out emulsion for months.
6) 123 - low detail, solid spot colors that need coverage
4) 156 - I like these in white mesh, higher detail maybe some large halftone (I do up to 42 LPI on these)
2) 230 - high detail, halftones and anything else that does not need heavy ink coverage
123's are ok, we have about 10 of them, slightly less ink deposit than the 110, about 10% less depending on thread thickness. I prefer yellow mesh in every mesh count but I've never really had any issues with white mesh, just personal preference.
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155, 195, 230 yellow on retens and you are good to go untill you get smarter than me...should take you about 1 1/2 days even if you break for lunch. from there I have no clue but those 3 mesh counts will handle several different ink viscosities, halftones to athletic ink printing.
The real key is to understtand how to get a nice thick emulsion deposit on the mesh.....EOM "mulsion over mesh" is Very Important
mooseman
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Hello Gang. My first post here......
I just purchased Mr. Tee's Hopkins 4/4 press and dryer and I'm gearing up to dive (back) into this crazy industry, but I've forgotten quite a bit. I want to buy about 12 aluminum frame screens, but I'm not sure what variety of mesh counts to order and why/when to use them. Yes, it's a loaded question, but can someone post an opinion on the matter.
An opinion on newbie squeegie selection would help also.
I plan to do the simple jobs starting out, and farm out the complex and larger jobs to some auto guys locally.
Many thanks,
Dewey
Memphis, TN
Hi dewey first off welcome to board
you will get a lot of info. from other member here
but ultimately you apply what works best for the type of printing you`re doing
many rookies try to dive into head first, "that`s crazy"not the industry
some member suggestions in my opinion are way too complex for a newbie
if i were you just keep it simple 110`s 158`s for spots colors, if you are ready for halftone dots
try 180`s or 200`s mesh statics or wood are o.k.
not trying to bash on geeky printers here with retens, high tesion, this or that
screen printing should not be this intimidating at these early stage
after all you learned you A,B,C, before you learn to read
Gabe
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Welcome to the board. I see the guys are being really helpful that is what makes this place so great.
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alright I gotta call bullshit...telling someone to get wood screens...
I gotta hand it to you guys...buy stuff twice..yeah that is a way to do business.
good luck!!!
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alright I gotta call bullshit...telling someone to get wood screens...
I gotta hand it to you guys...buy stuff twice..yeah that is a way to do business.
good luck!!!
No sh!t. Why buy shitty stuff and then realize its shitty? Save up and do it right the first time. With all the money and wasted time fooling with crap, you could by the right stuff two times over when all is said and done.
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i agree as well, spend your money wisely the first time and you wont end up buying things twice.
and yeah, wood frames, screw that.
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I agree with doublestroke. I know of several large auto shops that use wood. I agree that he should buy what he is comfortable with. If he has the technical will and expertise then retens would be a good fit. To say that wood is crap is just not so. At least ours are not. Not all are ready for retens out of the gate. Sam I love your passion for printing but everyone learns at a different pace and from a different background.
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Sonny with all due respect bullsh*t....buy what is right the first time and build...why keep buying over and over...I really wish I got my mentor before I spent a lot of money that I should not have...
I would give the advise of getting a mentor who is in this business and can help lead you to success....some people want to be successful and other think about...which one are you?
Sam
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I would not recommend wood, but I do think that there is certain sense to buying a few well stretched aluminum frames and actually learning how to coat and expose, and print basic stuff before also tackling how to make a screen.(I've seen a lot of posts here indicating that there can be problems and a learning curve)
Besides, we can't all learn to drive in a Porsche, some of us learn in a Toyota or Ford.
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I like Frog's analogy--and I see good points on either side of the argument. If you're just getting into printing, wood or aluminum will get you into printing. You have plenty to learn if you're just starting out. (or even if you know everything ;D)
I use both retens and aluminum statics, and personally, I find they both have their places.
Try out whatever you can, and make your own decision--make sure you have the time, energy, money, and initiative to most properly implement whatever type of screen stock you decide on--or it will be a waste of what you put into it.
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I see the point and I respect the points being made about statics... and in all truth I'm still not stretching up my own screens YET.
BUT the one thing I learned when I went to Alan's and printed on, and got a couple of Newmans stretched up, was mostly how much harder I was making it on myself trying to print on crappy statics!
I'm still printing on crappy statics but let me tell you how much I wish all my Newman's were up and running when I have to.
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Did you guys realize that this thread was started back in March :)
I think that he have already bought those screens some time ago
(I realized that after I made my post yesterday)