TSB
General => General Discussion and ??? => Topic started by: Clark on May 13, 2011, 11:35:47 AM
-
I have been looking for a lease space near where I am now and thinkin of getting back into the retail game. I found the perfect space, the only problem is.....
THERE IS A SCREEN PRINTER NEXT DOOR!
I think this could actually be very good for me because their walk-in business will have another option next door, so getting another quote would be easy. I went in there and talked to them today, the wife seemed okay with it since she would like to outsource the few big jobs they get to an auto shop. The husband was not so okay with it. He got snotty and asked how I would feel if I was there first and a screen printer moved next door. I told him I wouldn't care if someone with a manual moved next door, we aren't in the same market, and that it might be good because I can send small walk-in stuff next door. The mostly do schools and sports teams, I don't deal in either market, although I might consider schools if they were bulk orders.
Anyway, curious as to what you guys think and if there are any potential pitfalls with having two shops so close. I feel pretty comfortable that my work is better, my art is better, and that we can work quite a bit cheaper than them because of automation. Let me hear your thoughts. I mean if Burger King and McDonalds can be on the same corner, why not two screen printing shops.
-
I have been looking for a lease space near where I am now and thinkin of getting back into the retail game. I found the perfect space, the only problem is.....
THERE IS A SCREEN PRINTER NEXT DOOR!
I think this could actually be very good for me because their walk-in business will have another option next door, so getting another quote would be easy. I went in there and talked to them today, the wife seemed okay with it since she would like to outsource the few big jobs they get to an auto shop. The husband was not so okay with it. He got snotty and asked how I would feel if I was there first and a screen printer moved next door. I told him I wouldn't care if someone with a manual moved next door, we aren't in the same market, and that it might be good because I can send small walk-in stuff next door. The mostly do schools and sports teams, I don't deal in either market, although I might consider schools if they were bulk orders.
Anyway, curious as to what you guys think and if there are any potential pitfalls with having two shops so close. I feel pretty comfortable that my work is better, my art is better, and that we can work quite a bit cheaper than them because of automation. Let me hear your thoughts. I mean if Burger King and McDonalds can be on the same corner, why not two screen printing shops.
Hard for me to relate since I am 100% online business only. So it wouldn't bother me a bit. I guess if I was in a retail space and someone moved in "bigger" and "better" than me I may take issue with that, but it could also work to the good as well. I can imagine both of you could end up with "more" business actually. As the community around you finds out two printers are next to each other it would be a great way for them to go find which one they like best. The down side would be the one thats worse will probably die at some point unless they have a large loyal business following.
-
Kinda what I was thinking...I don't need any walk-in retail business to survive as all of my contract work and retail work is done by email then shipped. For them on the other hand, I think my presence is bad-news. It's business, and I won't feel bad about sinking their ship, but at the same time I don't want to be bad mouthed all over town for being the a-hole that went wal-mart on a small time screen printer.
-
It would Pi** me off too, .... Then you would have the price wars!!! But you already said you could do it lower or cheaper. Hey that is business..... But I understand the husbands concern and you looking for a good location at a good price. Good luck
-
We've got a shop about a quarter mile down the street from us so it's not close to the scenario you laid out. They also are tucked behind another building so they have zero walk-in customers. I have no idea how they get their business but they are different than us in how they operate. They aren't printing at 8am and leaving at 5pm, that's for sure. I think they get to work when they feel like it and somehow they've made it work. Honestly, we probably do go after the same customers, and the owner of that shop stops by often and we've become friends. They have a smaller sportsman and we've done a few favors here and there for them, in hopes that someday we could need a favor in return. We have a similar relationship with probably 6 print shops here in town where it seems like we do lots of favors for them, but we've never needed anything in return (knock on wood).
I would think especially since your shops are quite different from each other, it could turn out to be a pretty good relationship for both of you. However, you know the first time he loses a customer to you, there will be some tension and could snowball into an all out war of some type. The more I think about your situation the more I think that it will turn out bad for that other shop. You've got them beat on price, quality and I'm sure service as well, so the difference in the customer base would have to always remain the same to keep that possibility of tension to a minimum. I would also say that they would benefit greatly in potential knowledge they could gain from you if y'all decided to share any techniques or products, so that might make it better for them as well. I bet they would use you way more than you would use them for anything, so I can see it working.
It's a very dynamic situation though, with lots of potential ways it could go. I might recommend a long sit down meeting with them to get a feel of the type of people they are and see if you are compatible. The more you know about them the better idea you'll get on whether or not you can coexist.
-
Kinda what I was thinking...I don't need any walk-in retail business to survive as all of my contract work and retail work is done by email then shipped. For them on the other hand, I think my presence is bad-news. It's business, and I won't feel bad about sinking their ship, but at the same time I don't want to be bad mouthed all over town for being the a-hole that went wal-mart on a small time screen printer.
I think its all how you want to handle it, you can be a uppty prick about it and they will probably return fire and talk a lil smack on ya. Or you can do it as honest and "fair" as one can be moving next door to a competitor. In the end ya its buisness and thats that. But you can do it without making it as hard as possible for sure on them.
-
It would Pi** me off too, .... Then you would have the price wars!!! But you already said you could do it lower or cheaper. Hey that is business..... But I understand the husbands concern and you looking for a good location at a good price. Good luck
I don't do price-wars. Never saw the point in it. My retail prices are fairly low already because I'm an efficient contract shop. My price is my price. If they want to go low it will hurt them in the long run.
-
I thought our meeting today went pretty good. She asked for my card and for my contract pricelist when I left. I'm an open book, if they want to use the auto to run a job here and there, I'd be cool with that. I'd be cool with not actively selling to their customers too, as long as they understood if one of their customers came to be it was game-on. And vice-versa, if my customer leaves me for them because they are next door and they liked them better, oh well..there's plenty of business for everyone.
-
Look at it from the customers point of view - 'I need to go to a screenprinters for a quote, if I go here i can talk to two for the price of one'
You often get areas with lots of fast-food outlets, it can attract more customers rather than dilute them.
I'd have a gentleman's agreement with next door maybe share resources etc.
-
Clark I too hate price wars and will not do it.... They have the internet if they are looking for the low ball price ( nothing against you GD. or any others on this board that runs just off the internet) but you understand what I am saying, heck the $2 Guys can always hook them up ;). I always treat folks the way I like to be treated and hope and pray for the best. We have a shop about 2 miles from me that does some vinal and screen printing and has called me several times for shirts that he is short of and if I have them I sell them to him at cost. I also have not had to ask him to return the favor. Again Good Luck with the situation
-
I'm constantly amazed that with few exceptions (I personally haven't experienced any exceptions), how good screen printers get along in the same city/area.
When I started out, I looked at every printer as a SOB trying to steal "my" customer. Thankfully, it didn't take me long to figure out that us printers are actually a very helpful community.
I've been offered the use of a larger exposure table, been given great referrals, help with seps, been able to grab a Gildan or two for a hot job instead of driving an hour to my local distributor or having to wait days and pay for shipping, get a printing technique demo, etc.
Yes, price is very important to the customer but marketing may be even more important. Marketing can be a lot of things, like traditional marketing but it can be things like image. Does the customer have to step over Gildan boxes to get in? Is the customer greeted pleasantly or seen as a bother, etc.
Somebody mentioned it before but there are printers out there that are crazy expensive and they are busier than ever. Meanwhile the guy low balling everyone is always broke, bitter and can never get respect or customers.
-
If you do better work -I would not worry one bit. Screw'em. Survival of the fittest. I have 2 shops about a mile away from me, both of them are a few doors apart from each other. When we stared up 7 years ago, both of those shops were in the basement and hidden. Now they are both on the main drag in town -and we have more work than we can handle -we need 2 autos. why? We are flat the BEST in town. So people can go to the hack and get hack work for cheap -or get quality from a quality shop for a reasonable price. We don't always win, but we get the type of customers we want.
Basically if it comes down to my family eating or yours -mine wins. I will do anything I have to do, plain and simple.
-
Clark I too hate price wars and will not do it.... They have the internet if they are looking for the low ball price ( nothing against you GD. or any others on this board that runs just off the internet) but you understand what I am saying, heck the $2 Guys can always hook them up ;). I always treat folks the way I like to be treated and hope and pray for the best. We have a shop about 2 miles from me that does some vinal and screen printing and has called me several times for shirts that he is short of and if I have them I sell them to him at cost. I also have not had to ask him to return the favor. Again Good Luck with the situation
Well I am for sure not the lowest price out there, I would say I am in the middle somewhere. Ive seen quotes much higher than me, and lower than me, so I take no offense. I put a price on my stuff I find is fair. As people get into high qtys I think I compete a little harder there for sure. But lower qtys I am for sure not the lowest.
-
I thought our meeting today went pretty good. She asked for my card and for my contract pricelist when I left. I'm an open book, if they want to use the auto to run a job here and there, I'd be cool with that. I'd be cool with not actively selling to their customers too, as long as they understood if one of their customers came to be it was game-on. And vice-versa, if my customer leaves me for them because they are next door and they liked them better, oh well..there's plenty of business for everyone.
I am with you on how others should be treated. One of my friends has a screenprinting shop and was worried that I was going to poach his customers. I told him no way and to this day will not print for them without checking with my friend first. In some cases they fired the customer and were OK with me taking them. In others they said they were still printing for them and that the customer was looking to leave due to the price hike. Those customers I turn down and tell them we can talk after they have somebody else print for them for a while.
All that said and done, I find myself to be a minority or one of the few stand up guys around. While I treat others the way I would want to be treated, it would be foolish to expect other to reciprocate. And generally they do not. Most of the ppl are honest, but not honest to a fault. In the end, cool heads do not prevail and I believe the chances of it working to your advantage are less than 1%.
Just to be on a safe side, I would probably look for a different space.
Did you think about opening a retail space on a short lease and leaving the equipment where you are? It would give you an opportunity to try the retail gig without a big commitment and only minimal additional expenses. The space can now be much smaller and possibly even in a mall or some high traffic area . . .
pierre
-
I you were right next to each other, I would worry people will think you're one company.
-
I had considered just leasing an office, but I'd need somebody there full time, while I am back at the shop handling production...That cost would far outweigh the price of having one location to do it all. Also, my shop is behind my house, and I have 2 screaming 3 y.o. that can undo the gate and get into my office (in the house) several times a day. And lastly, I need more space. When football season comes, I'll be expected to house 20K-40k+ black shirts for my major account, and I just don't have room for it. In fact, they pretty much told me yesterday to get a bigger space after they flew in to visit me. Normally I'd tell them to F' off, but I have been looking for awhile now, and I really need to move. The thing about my customers now is that none of them care where I am. I have one big job I print locally once a year, other than that, everything get's shipped. And I don't think that job can be poached from me by someone local, there just isn't anybody at that level around here. 99% of my customer are not even in the DFW area. They are in Houston, Austin, Chicago, and Lubbock. I am friends with several local printers, I help them with tough jobs they can't do, and in exchange, if I need a red gildan, I just stop by and get one free of charge, and we're all cool with each other...But I've never dealt with these people aside from meeting them today. I'm gonna walk through the space again on Sunday and try to make a decision next week...this space is absolutely perfect for me.
-
I you were right next to each other, I would worry people will think you're one company.
Thats a for sure thing to consider, if the other shop sucks people could just assume your one in the same or get you confused.
-
I you were right next to each other, I would worry people will think you're one company.
It's a 12K sf building total, end cap where I want to be is 3Ksf, then all state has 3K next to that, then the other screen print shop...so there is technically an office in between. Never thought about that..good point.
-
It could turn into:
Person A: Hey where did you get your shirts?
Person B: over on X Street and don't go there they suck.
Person A: Thanks for the heads up.
You know how people are.
-
Yeah..that does have me worried.
-
...I actually have FIVE competing shops within a half-mile from me, two of which you HAVE to pass by to get to me. I have found it to have no ill effect on my business, I think I actually pick up a few clients when one of the others drops the ball.
...I say if the space suits your needs and will help your business, go for it. You cant base your decision on what suits the OTHER shop's needs. If they dont like it, they can also move, just like you are doing now.
-
...I actually have FIVE competing shops within a half-mile from me
There are far too many screen printing shops these days. Maybe I'll be doing everyone a service by thinning them out a bit in my area.
-
I have only skimmed through this thread, but think it is in bad taste (no offense meant in any way).
You are correct, BK and McDonalds do it all the time. Lots of Businesses do it. To me, it is cut throat as in I will move their and put you out (I am not saying that is what you are trying to do).
The only way I can see this working where you are both happy is if you were 100% contract only and they were 100% retail only and neither of you had any desire to cross over. Maybe if they were a dtg storefront that outsourced their printing and you were a to the trade printer only.
Now that is just my thoughts and I am sure 2 people can come to many different agreements and I am sure this same situation has happened and worked before.
I did notice a post by Graphic Disorder, and that is a very good point.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck either way.
-
I hear ya...my thing is, I want in this area. It is easy backroad accessibility to the town I am targeting. There are several spaces available in this area, and I have looked at them all. One other space I like will require too much build out, another is too large to A/C the production area. Regardless, I am opening within 1 mile of this gal's shop because that is the best area for my type of business. Now, I can move in down the road a bit and have a space that doesn't suit me as well or I can move in next door and have the perfect space. It may appear cutthroat, and to some degree it is, when you open up a business, the intent is to take market share from competitors. It will be a hard decision for me because while I intend to take a significant chunk of the market share, I'm not overly excited about doing it next door to the people I plan on taking business from at some point.
But, they may be out of business in a year with or without my help, so I'm thinking of doing what's right for my business..not theirs....thanks for the help everyone...its appreciated.
-
Beware the Ides of March.
-
I've seen several good posts here, but no one has suggested the obvious: just tell them to move.
;D
-
I'm thinking of doing what's right for my business..not theirs....
words of wisdom right there. . . It's nothing personal, it's just business. .sounds cold, but so true. If the gas companies thought about anything other than themselves, we would be paying about .25/gal. I don't know about you, but I'm not doing this for s hits and giggles. I want to make money. plain and simple, check your feelings at the door.
-
Personally I wouldn't do it. Bad Karma IMHO.
Unless there's no other space that would suit you, I wouldn't, especially if the neighbor objects. Maybe he'll change his mind, but if not I would personally look elsewhere.
I also wouldn't want the anxiety of a neighbor that objected to my presence from the beginning because you never know what kind of snitch they might become if they get a hair up their ass (building code, association regulations, misc BS technicalities, whatever). Business is business, but there are 2 sides to every coin.
On the other hand, you both may end up getting along, problem is you have no way of knowing.
-
I will add - there is always a better place than the one you are looking at.
Several months ago I looked at a nice shop. Big square room. 200A 3 ph panel. The entire room was already piped for compressed air. Over sized water heater. A separate built in room with a dehumidifier already installed....
I thought it was perfect but since then I've seen some even nicer, cleaner places with just as much power, smoother floors, nicer office areas, more customer friendly, etc.
I'd say keep looking. There's always something better than having hostile neighbors.
-
I will add - there is always a better place than the one you are looking at.
I would agree. The space I recently vacated was absolutely perfect. Plenty of room for me, a decent office, a second bathroom in the back that the landlord allowed me to modify for washout as long as I put it back upon leaving, and they allowed me to make the single electrical modification I needed for my dryer (a 220v line) without hiring an electrician.
What I found out was that, except for a few days in the winter, it was hotter than hell back there. No back door, front of the building facing the sun in the morning. I put reflective film on the window and door, and had to run the AC in the office constantly. It was in a sidewall that dumped into the warehouse area which only added to the heat buildup. In addition, the parking lot wasn't well lit, and while the neighborhood was attractive, and the buildings all well-kept, when I had to work at night with the roll-up door open, I often noticed cars rolling though the parking lot slowly. There were some apartments built not far from there where there was a bit of sketchy activity, so I kept a gun there, "just in case" any of the locals thought there might be some "bargains" to be had after 5.