TSB
screen printing => Screen Making => Topic started by: mooseman on May 06, 2012, 10:23:41 PM
-
Anyone have any experience with this new product?
mooseman
-
We have been using it since March. Over all pretty happy with it but the jury is still out.
Had a little trouble building the stencil up in the beginning, had to change how I coat a little now seems fine. Need to coat slower then with other emulsions.
Holds detail, half tones and fine lines well. Again in the beginning they were washing out. I have not tried 4 color or simulated with it yet.
Haven't seen any difference in exposure time over what we were using, Saati Chem Textile PV.
A lot cheaper then other emulsions, I go through 20-30 screens a day which is a big help.
Ran a 1800 piece job last week white on royal one hit then off. Coated 2-2, dryed then 2 more on the print side. The back which was three lines of bold text made it through the whole job. The front a large white logo started to brake down at about 1k imprints. With some Scotch tape was able to get another 400 out of it. I ended up burnning another screen for the last 400.
Dryes quick on the screen.
I need to be extra carefully when washing out on dyed mesh. The orange color makes it almost impossiable to see if there is any emulsion residue left behind especially when wet. I have gone to print several times only to find out the stencil was not completely washed out.
-
Thanks binkspot, very good information. I am going to call Ulano but you know no company will down side thier product, especially a new product. We currently use Ulano QTX , it is @ $90.00/ gallon but we do like it. The Orange product from Ulano reads just like the QTX description but you have to wonder how the same / same shows up with a $30.00 / gal difference.
We think we will get what we pay for but will give it a try.
Thanks again for your energy.
respectfully
mooseman
-
Thanks for the LT info--was wondering how it would hold up on long runs.
I haven't used it a load yet, but it may become a standard for short run spot colors--as Bink mentioned, it coats a little different, but for me the big kicker was how well it reclaims. I had problems with lock-in with Textil PV, and many other PP's I've tried, and this one performs well for me start to finish. I'm kind of in the opposite situation coating--used to a thicker mix so I need to coat faster, but it coats well on low and middle meshes. I couldn't get it to coat evenly or easily on 390 mesh though--seemed to get 'skippy', like the surface tension was funny. But I'll probably stick to a DC for HT work anyway. For the money, especially, seems like a great product.
-
We've been using it and like it, but so far only on coarser fabrics as far as I know. I'll check with my screen guy and get his feelings on it.
Steve
-
Thanks for pointing out the "skippy". I thought it was just me doning something wrong. I notice it on 280's and seems to get worse the higher mesh count. Its a wavey appeaence of thick/thin emulision on the higher counts even on ones with high tension.
-
Thanks all for the feed back we are going to try a bucket of orange , i will let you know how we think it stacks up to it 's higher priced cousin Ulano QTX
mooseman
-
we like it better than QTX, it will be our back up to the Kiwo Discharge if that pans out, still working on that one too. . .Orange is nice, you'll like it. I know a rep in your area if you want a free sample. Also, if you like QTX, try out Chromaline CT-R, same thing -almost- it's just 49.95/gallon. . .being using it for years but I am trying out dual cures and so far I like it better.
-
we like it better than QTX, it will be our back up to the Kiwo Discharge if that pans out, still working on that one too. . .Orange is nice, you'll like it. I know a rep in your area if you want a free sample. Also, if you like QTX, try out Chromaline CT-R, same thing -almost- it's just 49.95/gallon. . .being using it for years but I am trying out dual cures and so far I like it better.
thanks Homer I was going to order 2 buckets of orange but maybe i will try one of orange and one of CT-R.
By the way who is the rep. you are reffering to hope it is not D. I., Pm me please or buzz me # is on my card as avatar and looks a lot like 315 568 1663.
Thanks bro
mooseman
-
Anyone ever use clear? What is its purpose? I was doing some above the pocket prints today a d thought hmm clear emulsion woulda been nice here.
-
I received a sample of Orange last week and have had good results. I did also notice the "skipping" while coating this morning but just slowed down and everything was fine. I have also tested aquasol HPV recently and liked that too. Both are exposing in roughly the same amount of time as the chromablue I have been using. Out of the 3, the aquasol seems to make the heartiest screen and takes a bit longer to soften in the dip tank but has reclaimed fully.
-
When I was at the ISS show I was told by the Ulano guys that this emulsion is made for the lower mesh counts. The orange color was to help get better resolution on the lower mesh that is white and not dyed. Since we really don't use anything under 160 yellow mesh we passed on a sample after talking to him. That may be why you guys are having issues with the way it floods a cross the mesh during coating.
-
Hell no it's not D.I -talk to Shawn about them, I'll call my rep in the morning, he a ton of samples if you want anything else. . he's from the "G" company Sam hates. haha I'll PM you the details on where to find the CT-R at half price. . .
JB -it's thin though, I would think a thicker emulsion would be best on low mesh counts? either way, this stuff is ok in my book. A little difficult to see at washout but just move the screen around a bit.
-
I've got a gallon of orange coming in today, hopefully within the hour. I've got 5 screens waiting to be coated with it and I might expose them later today if I can. I hope it's thick enough for building decent eom in lower mesh counts. Website says 44-46% which is slightly lower than I'm used to, the chromablue is around 50% and Saati "says" the PHW Red is only 50% but I have plastisol ink that is thinner than that stuff, I would guess it's around 55%.
-
Hell no it's not D.I -talk to Shawn about them, I'll call my rep in the morning, he a ton of samples if you want anything else. . he's from the "G" company Sam hates. haha I'll PM you the details on where to find the CT-R at half price. . .
JB -it's thin though, I would think a thicker emulsion would be best on low mesh counts? either way, this stuff is ok in my book. A little difficult to see at washout but just move the screen around a bit.
I dont know what to tell you on that one. They just spoke to its ability to hold better detail on white mesh due to the color of the dye that it uses. Right now we have not tried it. I rarely use a screen that has white mesh on it.
-
We're using it on Murakami 110s, great mesh bridging for fine detail.
Steve
-
Got my gallon in and coated up about 10 screens with it using the glisten, round edge and mesh counts ranging from 34 (yes...not a typo) to 180 standard thread. I'd put the solids content and viscosity as pretty good, along the same lines of the chromablue, but slightly runnier, not near as thick as the PHW Red, and maybe on par with the Kiwo One Coat. It coated easily, dried quickly from what I could tell, truthfully I didn't really monitor that variable. I'll be exposing a few in the morning, I think it's going to be a good emulsion. Hopefully it will be a great performer for us.
I thought I remember reading a price for this stuff from a post on this site but I couldn't find it last night. Anyone care to share the per gallon price with me? Email or PM would be fine if you don't want to post publically.
-
Ok, I'm sure most of you have been on pins and needles awaiting my review of this emulsion, so hear it is.
It's good.
:)
-
Texsource has the orange on sale super cheap but the sale is only valid if you attend their open house.
-
Ok, I'm sure most of you have been on pins and needles awaiting my review of this emulsion, so hear it is.
It's good.
:)
On another thread I spoke of positives sticking to emulsion. Did you need the baby powder on this emulsion?
-
Seriously, I burned 6 screens with it today, using the same coating method we always do, and I tried many different exposure times and it exposed very quickly. I burned a white 110 coated 2/2 with 4 light units, and there were zero sings of under exposure. 4LU's is about 40 seconds, give or take. It sprayed out nicely, but it was a thinner stencil than what I get with the phw red and the same coating procedure. If you can work out a deal with your supplier and get this emulsion for around $50/gal or less then it's a sure winner. And one of the best parts was I didn't need to do the baby powder step. I'll have to burn a few thicker stencils to make sure we don't have any real film-sticking issues, but so far so good with the 30 micron eom stencils.
I don't think it's solids content and viscosity are high enough to build a thick stencil with a 2/2 technique, I'll coat a few lower mesh counts with a 3/3 or more,which is what I'm after, but I'm going to finish this gallon and put it through the paces and see what it's capable of. I'll burn some finer mesh counts with it tomorrow and some half tones then look at them through my loupe to see what we're dealing with.
I'll have more to say on this emulsion by tomorrow afternoon if anyone cares enough to read it. I'm gonna coat some higher mesh tomorrow and see how this stuff performs. I don't do anything halfassed and I've got samples of different emulsions coming from all over and hopefully in a few weeks I'll have the perfect emulsion or emulsions for our needs.
-
Seriously, I burned 6 screens with it today, using the same coating method we always do, and I tried many different exposure times and it exposed very quickly. I burned a white 110 coated 2/2 with 4 light units, and there were zero sings of under exposure. 4LU's is about 40 seconds, give or take. It sprayed out nicely, but it was a thinner stencil than what I get with the phw red and the same coating procedure. If you can work out a deal with your supplier and get this emulsion for around $50/gal or less then it's a sure winner. And one of the best parts was I didn't need to do the baby powder step. I'll have to burn a few thicker stencils to make sure we don't have any real film-sticking issues, but so far so good with the 30 micron eom stencils.
I don't think it's solids content and viscosity are high enough to build a thick stencil with a 2/2 technique, I'll coat a few lower mesh counts with a 3/3 or more,which is what I'm after, but I'm going to finish this gallon and put it through the paces and see what it's capable of. I'll burn some finer mesh counts with it tomorrow and some half tones then look at them through my loupe to see what we're dealing with.
I'll have more to say on this emulsion by tomorrow afternoon if anyone cares enough to read it. I'm gonna coat some higher mesh tomorrow and see how this stuff performs. I don't do anything halfassed and I've got samples of different emulsions coming from all over and hopefully in a few weeks I'll have the perfect emulsion or emulsions for our needs.
It sounds good so far. I want to find sometning that exposes fast and doesnt have that film sticking to the screen.
-
It sounds good so far. I want to find sometning that exposes fast and doesnt have that film sticking to the screen.
If those are the most important factors for you, then Aquasol HV meets those specs perfectly. About $62/gal depending on source, so possibly a little more out the door than this Orange.
Alan, I'd be interested to hear about the detail of halftones you get out of it. Also if you have a discharge or wb job to run, see how it holds up!
Nazdar is sending me a sample of the Kiwo Discharge and I'll post some feedback on it with a wb job some time soon.
-
I just finished off my first 5 gallon bucket of the Orange this morning and will be ordering more. After reading what has been posted here I changed my coating again to 2/2 fat side and even the 280's look great. Yesterday I coated 10 manual screens diffrent ways, burned and washed out this morning and the 2/2 made the best stencil for me.
I burned some 230's yesterday with some fine detail and half tones and it worked fine. I was going to snap some pictures of it today but my new help did what I asked and reclaimed everything I took off the press.
-
Well, I spent a little time after everyone went home and tried to coat some low mesh screens with thick stencils and I did have a little issue that doesn't happen with the phw red. I coated an 83 with a 3/3 (overkill, but im trying to push the limits) method and even with scraping the corners and edges I had some serious drippage. Not just at the edges either, in the middle of the screen as well. That is a little disappointing considering that this emulsion has passed the other tests with flying colors. As I suspected,the viscosity and solids content isn't high enough to build really thick stencils (200 micron eom) with simple wet on wet coating methods. I'm not ready to give up on the emulsion because of this, it's really good stuff and I need to see if there is a way to .get those extreme stencils with the orange before I pull the plug on it. I may back off a few microns on our thickest stencils and see how our prints are. Maybe I could keep a gallon of the phw on hand for those few times a month I'm going for a one hit print or something out of the ordinary.
My visit with the kiwo rep today was excellent and I learned a lot. He was very knowledgeable on the Ulano products since they own them and he gave me plenty of things to look for when comparing the orange to any other emulsion. I got some kiwo diazo water resistant emulsion to try on our next discharge job. I also have reworked our darkroom a bit andi think I might show some pics of that tomorrow when I'm done with it. It's a lot br igniter now and easier to deal with. Turns out we had our dark room too UV blocked where it was overkill and the room was so dark you couldn't work in it and there was no need for it. We had 2 amber UV blocking sleeves over each flouro bulbs and also a red tinted UV blocking tint over the light diffuser when just one of the amber sleeves would have been fine. A rep from a supplier set up our darkroom many years ago and it was before I ever thought about working for the family business. I guess the guy really wanted to make sure our screens were safe.
-
we have used uncovered fluo tubes with no problem. we don leave the screens out for a long time, but a few minutes won't hurt them. we now use yellow sleeves on the tubes, works great and it's pretty easy to see
-
I know every one is going to jump all over me but I didn't even put a dark room in our new shop. I built a 4' deep x 16' long closet with sliding doors to keep our screens. Has a heater, dehumidfyer and two circulating fans. I coat and burn out in the ambiant light with no trouble.
-
i have said this several times we do all of our coating in open light and about 15 feet from a 5 x 8 foot window in our shop. The walk from our exposure unit to washout booth is anout 20 feet and passes right by an uncovered window where the sun (when it is out in NY ) shines directly in.
Currently we use Ulano QTX which is reported to have very fast expose characteristics
We just don't seem to have any problems
mooseman
-
Our dark room is only used to store coated screens, nothing more, nothing less. We coat outside in the shop, store the coated screens horizontally in the dark room till they dry, then they are put along the wall based on mesh count. Our exposure unit is outside, next to the dark room and the screens are out in the natural light of the shop for about 10 seconds before they are on the exposure unit. We've used mostly SBQ PP's that expose quickly and sometimes I'll let a screen sit outside for a minute while taping up film and ganging up images and I've never had an issue. I know these screens are light sensitive but you can do a lot with one without it pre-exposing. I might do some testing one day when I have time, but I think you can walk a screen around our shop for a good 5 minutes and not have a problem.
-
I would also like to point out the sample quart of the Orange we tried was a lot thinner then the 5 gallons we purchased. I dont know if it was just a fluke the sample came out of an un mixed bucket or something but the viscosity was much thicker out of the 5.
-
I would also like to point out the sample quart of the Orange we tried was a lot thinner then the 5 gallons we purchased. I dont know if it was just a fluke the sample came out of an un mixed bucket or something but the viscosity was much thicker out of the 5.
That's not good. Just a few %'s different in solids content makes a big difference to me. I hope the next gallon or 5 that we get is the same as the first.
I'm going to go out right now and expose a few more of the thicker stencils to see how they work, stay tuned.
-
Had some issues today with the orange, the thicker stencils aren't going to be as easy to achieve and maintain as with the PHW red. Here are some pics of a screen that I was trying to do a color change on and the emulsion delaminated from the mesh rather easily. I've done it before with other emulsions but not quite this easily. This stencil is very thick, an 83 mesh count that we use for a "one hit" light tan in on a military green shirt. We previously had to underbase this with white or sometimes we'd use the light tan as the UB and flash and hit again, but this mesh count with the stencil thickness allows us to print with one stroke and move on. Here is the screen as I was trying to take the ink out of the screen so we could store the screen for the next time we print that job, about a week or two from now.
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/280DC258-E74A-4394-8CAD-49D2F797AFB7.jpg)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/D044DC6D-CC6E-4A5D-BA67-A32F2F86032A.jpg)
(http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/44D2D943-5F53-493F-A747-F4D1AC26D00D.jpg)
This screen printed great, no issues until I started rubbing the shirt side with a rag and some press wash.
-
When I used the first photopolymer emulsions from Murakami back in the late '80's or so, we cleaned with xylene, and noticed that I was losing dots. (Screen opener spray was bad as well)
I have to wonder if this situation was aggravated by an incompatibility with your press wash.
-
The Ulano Orange came in today, here is our comparison vs Ulano QTX
Right out of the bucket the Orange seems to have less viscosity than QTX. We did some un-scientific testing but can assure you our bucket of Orange is thinner than our bucket of QTX.
Filled a 18 inch coater and hit a 156 screen 3 / 2. It seemed to apply slightly better than the QTX and be less stringy when we broke the coater off the mesh at the end of the coating stroke. Most like direct result of the apparent viscosity difference.
the orange color on a yellow screen is going to take some getting used to we use a visual review after coating and drying to evaluate the overall condition of the emulsion film caoting. With the pink reporting dry as red it is much easier than the dry orange on yellow.
washout was virtuially the same in time effort and mechanics, a dead heat here .
Exposure time was the same by our exposure meter calculation possibly even a little faster, lets call it a dead heat here
the exposed screen held boffo detail..... on 4 & 6 point block text on a 156 screen an excellent result.
the EOM result appears to be the same as QTX, this is purely subjective we do not have a way to measure other than a claibrated thumb nail and index finger tip but the stuff looks great.
have not had a chance to ink it up and experience the lubricity or drag of a squeegee blade undert ink and manual pressure.
We find this a critical factor for many reasons well beyond fatigue. We definately see a big difference in drag over several brands of ink, it will be interesting to see how the orange reacts to the squeegee .
Have not had a chance to experience the visual condition of aligning the exposed screen to a positive on the pallet.
Yes we put our positives on the pallet then bring the screen to center upon it. I know this is taboo whit some but since I sign the pay checks here I let me get away with it.
My overall opinion so far is it is a keeper even with the sick looking orange color on yellow mesh.
From my wallet Orange runs $20.00 a bucket less than QTX so if it continues to report kindly as so far it looks like a win win.
mooseman
-
Had some issues today with the orange, the thicker stencils aren't going to be as easy to achieve and maintain as with the PHW red. Here are some pics of a screen that I was trying to do a color change on and the emulsion delaminated from the mesh rather easily. I've done it before with other emulsions but not quite this easily. This stencil is very thick, an 83 mesh count that we use for a "one hit" light tan in on a military green shirt. We previously had to underbase this with white or sometimes we'd use the light tan as the UB and flash and hit again, but this mesh count with the stencil thickness allows us to print with one stroke and move on. Here is the screen as I was trying to take the ink out of the screen so we could store the screen for the next time we print that job, about a week or two from now.
([url]http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/280DC258-E74A-4394-8CAD-49D2F797AFB7.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/D044DC6D-CC6E-4A5D-BA67-A32F2F86032A.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr211/alan802/SRI%20Pics/44D2D943-5F53-493F-A747-F4D1AC26D00D.jpg[/url])
This screen printed great, no issues until I started rubbing the shirt side with a rag and some press wash.
Hey Allan, Just a thougt after looking at you pics, when I see edges (like I see in your pics) on our lower mesh counts it is usually a result of underexposure. We find on 80's I have to expose at 1.5 times my tytpical or I get tha same result right out of the washout booth.
just for waht it is worth.
mooseman
-
I hear ya moose, unfortunately, I didn't expose this screen. My printer did it and he could have very well have underexposed it. When the edges came up I showed him and asked him if this was the first one that had done it and it was because we hadn't done a color change or de-inked a screen with the new emulsion. It could have been weak right after the sprayout, but everything seemed solid until I started to put some elbow grease into it. I haven't dialed in our exposure light units for this stuff yet, but I've noticed it is around 20% or so faster than the phw red with the same mesh counts, but the stencil thicknesses are significantly lower with the orange.
-
Have done a few color changes with the Orange and haven't had that issue yet but screens I know will be on long runs or color change I will post expose for half the normal time after they dry. We have been doing this for the past few years, someone from another shop suggested it when we had our old florescent exposure unit and just never strayed from it when we got the 3140. Maybe I am way off on this but don't really want to experiment on a long run.
I don't know if it helps but we are exposing 110 mesh on our 3140 for 70 ltu, might give you a reference.
-
cant believe you are exposing 110 at 70 ltu on a 3140. I expose for 28 ltu on the same model and at my old shop on an old 3140 I also exposed at 28 ltu. QTX or Kiwo Discharge, they both expose the same. Thats odd you need 70 ltu.
-
If I dont the emulsion is spongy and starts to wash out along the edges of the image. I have checked with a Chromaline (wrong spelling) calculator and thats what works. I may be doing something wrong, wouldnt be the first time.
I'm not at the unit now but these are my general exposure times for Textile PV and Orange off the top of my head.
150=60
230=45
305=38
-
Jason, you and Bink may both be exposing 110 mesh, but you may not have anywhere close to the same EOM.
-
Understood, thats probably the reason it has worked for me at 2 different shops. My techniques are the same from shop to shop. Someone elses could be way different.
-
That is a PHAT stencil! I think I need to up to 3/3 on my coating. The emulsion I use only has around 39% solids. Either that or change emulsion. Has anyone used the orange for discharge?
I am going to coat some kiwo discharge emulsion this weekend and see how that goes
-
No trouble always looking to improve our operation. I know if Megan coats and we use those times the image either is a bitch to get out or wont come out because the way she coats is diffrent and the stencil is not as deep.
-
No trouble always looking to improve our operation. I know if Megan coats and we use those times the image either is a bitch to get out or wont come out because the way she coats is diffrent and the stencil is not as deep.
May I suggest that Megan and you both, if you don't already, use the glisten method which should get your EOM's closer together, whether it takes one of you more strokes or less strokes. The end result will be similar.
This was one of the first articles here.
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html)
-
That is a PHAT stencil! I think I need to up to 3/3 on my coating. The emulsion I use only has around 39% solids. Either that or change emulsion. Has anyone used the orange for discharge?
I am going to coat some kiwo discharge emulsion this weekend and see how that goes
Hey Gerry, I don't think you're going to have much luck coating a lower mesh count (80-110) with a 3/3 and 39% solids content emulsion. You are going to have major drippage, more than likely. And not just around the edges and corners, it will be all over the screen. The reason why I have to use the high solids content emulsions is because of those thick stencils on low mesh counts. I have a sample of some Murakami pure photo that is high solids and really high viscosity so I'll be reviewing that sometime next week.
I meant to coat some higher mesh screens today with the orange but I got sidetracked by a broken 42" heat buster fan, some idiot sales people, looking for my tools, and some deliveries I had to make since our delivery driver called in sick. I'll coat some on monday and do some halftone sampling with our handy dandy test film my artist made to test emulsions and mesh count capabilities.
-
I didn't think of that Alan. You are right, even with a 2/2 round side I do get drips on the edges. You know of any high solids emulsion that will hold up well with discharge? I'm trying to stick with one emulsion but the more I research the more I find one emulsion may not do it for everything.
-
No trouble always looking to improve our operation. I know if Megan coats and we use those times the image either is a bitch to get out or wont come out because the way she coats is diffrent and the stencil is not as deep.
May I suggest that Megan and you both, if you don't already, use the glisten method which should get your EOM's closer together, whether it takes one of you more strokes or less strokes. The end result will be similar.
This was one of the first articles here.
[url]http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html[/url] ([url]http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,2621.0.html[/url])
I actually do use this method. She had always coated the screens before I started full time. It was always an argument about how thin the stencil was and there had to be a better way, mostly for printing white in one hit. When I did decide to make the move one of the first things on my list to do was start coating the screens myself and build a better stencil. I used the same way she did then after the screen dried would add another coat. Got better results but still not happy. I kept reading post and articles how guys were getting thick stencils by coating wet and not having to go back to recoat. Every shop I visited working on the Ptex's I would make some time to watch how the screen guys would coat. Then I read the article here and it changed everything. With a little practice I was making what I would consider great stencils. Once I was getting consistent results I tweaked the process to refine it some more to where I am at now with 2/2.
We have actually found the best thing for our shop is to keep Megan up front in the office or on the road generating work;) We sometimes let her come back and catch off the dryer or run a heat press.
-
Couple of comments/questions.
Alan, how long did you expose that screen? That's pretty thick on yellow mesh. On my exposure unit that thickness would take about 40ltu. Related question for Brian, can you calibrate the 3140? I know with my nuarc light source and integrator you can calibrate the photo cell to get the cell calibrated to 100 which means one ltu equals roughly one second. I'd probably still post expose with that stencil thickness too.
I guess the most important question for the Orange to the end all be all, would be discharge and waterbased performance without hardening.
-
I didn't think of that Alan. You are right, even with a 2/2 round side I do get drips on the edges. You know of any high solids emulsion that will hold up well with discharge? I'm trying to stick with one emulsion but the more I research the more I find one emulsion may not do it for everything.
Gerry you dont need that kind of stencil thickness for discharge. There is no reason for it. If you use the right emulsion and techniques to prep your screens your emulsion will hold up just fine.
-
from our test, orange does not perform well with discharge /wb.
-
cant believe you are exposing 110 at 70 ltu on a 3140. I expose for 28 ltu on the same model and at my old shop on an old 3140 I also exposed at 28 ltu. QTX or Kiwo Discharge, they both expose the same. Thats odd you need 70 ltu.
Jason I also have a 3140 and I bought a macdermid exposure calculator and spent a whole Sunday dialing in all of our mesh counts. On 110 I am exposing 78 ltus very close to Brian's numbers, same as all the other counts. This is using qtx and qlt I use one for spot and one for higher details.
If I exposed a 110 even at 60ltu I would have a slimy screen on the ink side maybe acceptable if post exposed but not ideal, if I went. Low as you mine would wash right out. Like Brian I coat heavy, 2/2 at a slow speed with decent pressure, my dried surface is perfectly smooth when inspecting from a extreme side angle with light, you cannot see any valleys from the mesh itself.
Hey Brian when you say you post expose do you mean out side in the sun or on your exposure unit? Reason why I ask is its a waste of energy to do it on the unit since the light has to re penetrate the already exposed layers which is actually quite a bit longer than the first exposure time, sun light is almost immediate and free even on cloudy days, clouds do not block uv it's always there.
-
I brought specs from the shop I used to work at and my Nazdar rep came down one day and we did exposure tests for a few hours and my specs from 13 years before were the exact same at my new shop. 30 ltu or less on 110 with qtx 2/2.
-
I didn't think of that Alan. You are right, even with a 2/2 round side I do get drips on the edges. You know of any high solids emulsion that will hold up well with discharge? I'm trying to stick with one emulsion but the more I research the more I find one emulsion may not do it for everything.
We are currently in the real world testing stage with our Nova. This emulsion is the highest solids at between 58% and 60%. It holds great detail as it was designed for a customer that prints on pacemakers. Current coating for the test is 2 on the substrate side and one in the ink well. The ink being used is CCI White Discharge. The Hardener is ours as well. First job out 500 plus pieces on a 196. The detail held was consistent with a 305.
-
When we have the time the screens go outside in the sun even on cloudy or cold days. If it is a rush they get washed, blotted with news paper, blown out with low pressure dry air and placed in my dry box for about 15-20 min. Then exposed again and go to the press.
-
Couple of comments/questions.
Alan, how long did you expose that screen? That's pretty thick on yellow mesh. On my exposure unit that thickness would take about 40ltu. Related question for Brian, can you calibrate the 3140? I know with my nuarc light source and integrator you can calibrate the photo cell to get the cell calibrated to 100 which means one ltu equals roughly one second. I'd probably still post expose with that stencil thickness too.
I guess the most important question for the Orange to the end all be all, would be discharge and waterbased performance without hardening.
I think I exposed that screen for 10 ltu's which is probably around 90 seconds. I also burned a 110 yellow mesh at only 4 ltu's the other day to find the sweet spot for each mesh count. There were no signs of under exposure on the 110 but it wasn't as thick as what we've been using.
-
fellas, the ltu is user set. (unless nuarc does not have this feature) I set our 5k Olec to have the ltu appx =1 sec. but you can set it wherever you want. I dont see how this unit of measurement could be universal or relevant for comparison even if it was.
Sent from my intelligent phone-a-majigger.
-
Zoo we are comparing since we are each talking about the msp3140. No it's not identical to each user since the integrator compensates for the bulb age but I may be close assuming none of us adjusted our ltu differently
-
I used a 1998 msp3140 at my old shop and I have a 2011 msp3140 at my new shop. Exposure times are exactly the same.
-
Where do you guys with the 3140's have your LTU's set at? I guess what I'm asking is how long is a 10 ltu exposure, 10 seconds? Earlier in the day 10 ltu's on our richmond is faster than after we've shot 30 screens, it's noticeable. Having the light integrator is very valuable in my opinion, especially if you're doing high end stuff. 10 ltu's for us is approximately 75-90 seconds and that seems like forever sometimes. That's why I have such a hard time thinking about moving to a dual cure. 3-5 minute shoots ain't gonna work when we are busy.
-
Can you set your ltu's down to the decimal or only whole numbers?
-
Where do you guys with the 3140's have your LTU's set at? I guess what I'm asking is how long is a 10 ltu exposure, 10 seconds? Earlier in the day 10 ltu's on our richmond is faster than after we've shot 30 screens, it's noticeable. Having the light integrator is very valuable in my opinion, especially if you're doing high end stuff. 10 ltu's for us is approximately 75-90 seconds and that seems like forever sometimes. That's why I have such a hard time thinking about moving to a dual cure. 3-5 minute shoots ain't gonna work when we are busy.
75 ltu's for us is 6 min 37 seconds, that's for a dual cure emulsion though, I don't have anything else timed right now.
I thought you had a 10k exposure bulb? You can only do one screen at a time though? If we start getting to 60-100 screens a day we will probably have to get an exposure unit that can do 2 23x31 screens at a time.
-
Where do you guys with the 3140's have your LTU's set at? I guess what I'm asking is how long is a 10 ltu exposure, 10 seconds? Earlier in the day 10 ltu's on our richmond is faster than after we've shot 30 screens, it's noticeable. Having the light integrator is very valuable in my opinion, especially if you're doing high end stuff. 10 ltu's for us is approximately 75-90 seconds and that seems like forever sometimes. That's why I have such a hard time thinking about moving to a dual cure. 3-5 minute shoots ain't gonna work when we are busy.
Alan i timed our nearly brand new MSP (new bulb) 60 LTU's equals 71 seconds, that is nearly a second an LTU, I am sure in a year it will be double that.
-
Where do you guys with the 3140's have your LTU's set at? I guess what I'm asking is how long is a 10 ltu exposure, 10 seconds? Earlier in the day 10 ltu's on our richmond is faster than after we've shot 30 screens, it's noticeable. Having the light integrator is very valuable in my opinion, especially if you're doing high end stuff. 10 ltu's for us is approximately 75-90 seconds and that seems like forever sometimes. That's why I have such a hard time thinking about moving to a dual cure. 3-5 minute shoots ain't gonna work when we are busy.
75 ltu's for us is 6 min 37 seconds, that's for a dual cure emulsion though, I don't have anything else timed right now.
I thought you had a 10k exposure bulb? You can only do one screen at a time though? If we start getting to 60-100 screens a day we will probably have to get an exposure unit that can do 2 23x31 screens at a time.
We can do 2 at a time but it seems like we aren't burning like mesh counts at the same time very often. If we went to a dual cure it would be 2 at a time every exposure for sure.
-
CCI have an orange emulsion out too now called TX-orange, I'm told its thicker than the Ulano product so should give a good build on coarse meshes.
-
CCI have an orange emulsion out too now called TX-orange, I'm told its thicker than the Ulano product so should give a good build on coarse meshes.
I've come to the conclusion after a gallon of the orange that overall it is a great emulsion that will be perfect for a good number of shops out there. It is versatile, does everything really well except build thick stencils on lower mesh counts. That's why it isn't going to be a gamer in our shop. The PHW red will give you a thicker stencil with a 2/1 than the orange will get you with a 3/3. If you try to get a thick stencil out of the orange you'll end up getting major dripage before you're able to achieve that stencil. Oh well, it was a good emulsion for the money and I recommend others try it out, especially those shops that don't mess around with 100 micron stencils.
-
Well we have gone through 2 buckets of Ulano Orange and just ordered two more buckets of Ulano QTX.
We are off the orange, just not worth the $20.00 / bucket savings to us.
Thinner mix, fussier stick to screens, doesn't seem to reclaim as well and just don't like the color.
Other than that how was the play Ms Lincoln?
mooseman
-
Well we have gone through 2 buckets of Ulano Orange and just ordered two more buckets of Ulano QTX.
We are off the orange, just not worth the $20.00 / bucket savings to us.
Thinner mix, fussier stick to screens, doesn't seem to reclaim as well and just don't like the color.
Other than that how was the play Ms Lincoln?
mooseman
Exactly my findings. At first we thought this is the emulsion we have been looking for but too many issues popped up. Next I will try Xenon products. Do they have a website, tried to google it without any luck.
-
Cant find their website anymore but it sucked ^%& big time. Hopefully they are revamping it. Here is a link to their ebay store http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect (http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect)
I am sure Sonny aka Printficient would give you better pricing, he is a member here.
-
Exactly my findings. At first we thought this is the emulsion we have been looking for but too many issues popped up. Next I will try Xenon products. Do they have a website, tried to google it without any luck.
NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. . . .sorry Sonny. . .
I think they make that sh!t in a bathtub. . ..
-
Lmao Homer. I often wonder why they don't want to invest in marketing or a website. Just doesn't look professional. I did try some Plastofast emulsion from then and had decent results.
-
NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. . . .sorry Sonny. . .
I think they make that sh!t in a bathtub. . ..
I think I see the problem. Jason, you're not supposed to drink it. :D
-
Cant find their website anymore but it sucked ^%& big time. Hopefully they are revamping it. Here is a link to their ebay store [url]http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect[/url] ([url]http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect[/url])
I am sure Sonny aka Printficient would give you better pricing, he is a member here.
Wow that is a shitty website they have.
http://about.me/www.xenonproducts.com (http://about.me/www.xenonproducts.com)
-
Exactly my findings. At first we thought this is the emulsion we have been looking for but too many issues popped up. Next I will try Xenon products. Do they have a website, tried to google it without any luck.
NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. . . .sorry Sonny. . .
I think they make that sh!t in a bathtub. . ..
Based on their website, Facebook page and eBay store you might actually be right with that statement.
Ok back to Chromaline and and Image Mate products.
-
Cant find their website anymore but it sucked ^%& big time. Hopefully they are revamping it. Here is a link to their ebay store [url]http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect[/url] ([url]http://stores.ebay.com/xenonproductsdirect[/url])
I am sure Sonny aka Printficient would give you better pricing, he is a member here.
Wow that is a shitty website they have.
[url]http://about.me/www.xenonproducts.com[/url] ([url]http://about.me/www.xenonproducts.com[/url])
What's funny is they actually had a slightly better before this one lol.
-
cant believe you are exposing 110 at 70 ltu on a 3140. I expose for 28 ltu on the same model and at my old shop on an old 3140 I also exposed at 28 ltu. QTX or Kiwo Discharge, they both expose the same. Thats odd you need 70 ltu.
We are exposing our 110s on the 3140 for 170LTU otherwise we have problems keeping the stencil on the mesh. That's coated with the round edge 1X2. We change the bulb once a year on our exposure unit. What might make a difference though is the high humidity we have.
-
Hmm... that's crazy.
I don't use any of that emulsion but I do use 35 LTU's for Chromaline Chroma Blue and that is coating fairly thick... getting a thickness gauge this week. I noticed a LOT of latitude with our exposure unit... I'd have to look at our notes but I know from like 20 to maybe like 65 all could have been usable LTU's, I had to REALLy look hard to decide that 35 seemed like a good time. Right now since our coating technique sucks and we have no clue how thick any of our stencils are from one screen to the next, I'm using that latitude to my advantage and just exposing everything at that same LTU. 110's are coated VERY thick (for us) and the same for out 158's that aren't coated as thick but still much better than something like a 1:1.
We just got a new AWT scoop coater that should resolve some of our problems, hope to put some rollers in the mix and that should help us get our coating technique down... plus the thickness gauge will let us check ourselves and probably laugh at ourselves a bit. ;)