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screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: ZooCity on May 15, 2012, 10:10:11 PM

Title: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ZooCity on May 15, 2012, 10:10:11 PM
If you had to start all over, which would you choose?

We have our new setup and we're ready to get wet and I'm trying to narrow down our selection for the new ink system.  I would prefer to have a singular system for wb and discharge but I'm open.  Here's the serious contenders I'm aware of, I know there are others like jantex, etc., but these are the ones I've narrowed down to, what can we add to this list?


Ideally, a pigment concentrate system that works with various bases wb or discharge would be preferred but not a must. The Sericol RFU/mix concept is very appealing.

Pigment quality is paramount.

Tech support is important though not as critical.

As is the effect of any system on the shop environment while printing.  Now, regarding that, the MSDS sheets for the various systems are absurdly inconsistent and some are practically blank.  So far, I've noted that Sericol and CCI contain white or stoddard solvents in their inks which doesn't sound too appealing in terms of long term exposure (though I wonder if the use of white solvent is what puts these inks over the top, as reported here, compared to others).  Then again, it's not like using formaldehyde, even in a small %, is super appealing either.   Matsui appears to be the only mfg with some sort of overall environmental commitment and was my default choice as their RC inks perform well and are readily available but, if anyone has an opinion here, I'd love to hear it.   

thx in advance.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 15, 2012, 10:23:55 PM
Don't have to much input but the Matsui and Jantex systems have too many additives and makes it confusing for me anyway. I like the CCI white and the ease of use and the performance of the Sericol system.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: JBLUE on May 16, 2012, 12:03:44 AM
Sericol here as well. I dont think it gets easier than that system.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ericheartsu on May 16, 2012, 02:15:24 AM
We use Matsui here at the shop, but we just took the plunge into Sericol...hoping for a better pantone match!
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: mjrprint on May 16, 2012, 07:51:31 AM
I am using the Rutland WB-99. Color matching has been pretty easy so far and it is working well. Easy to look up the formulas through their website also. The biggest complaint has been the smell.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: Rockers on May 16, 2012, 08:23:34 AM
I don't think you have to worry about any negative impact by the Sericol Texcharge inks.
As a matter of fact the Sericol and the Magnacolor discharge inks are the only ones that are real environmentally friendly and are certified organic.
Check Permaset aqua and Permaset Supercover inks from Australia. Standard wb inks but as well organic and super soft. And the colors are brilliant. They can be used on cotton, mixed cotton polyester, 100% polyester without the need for any additives.

This should answer your concerns regarding the Sericol Texcharge inks
http://www.sacert.org/textiles/newsandfeatures/articleid/2524/fujifilm-inks-first-to-be-approved-by-soil-association-certification (http://www.sacert.org/textiles/newsandfeatures/articleid/2524/fujifilm-inks-first-to-be-approved-by-soil-association-certification)
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: alan802 on May 16, 2012, 08:25:17 AM
I hate giving advice on products when I haven't used a ton of them that are in the running, but the sericol texcharge is very impressive to me.  That system along with the CCI D White, winner winner chicken dinner.

It should really change the way a manual shop prints.  No more flashing, and flashing, and flashing, and spinning the carousel around 3 and 4 times, just print, spin the screen carousel and print.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: tonypep on May 16, 2012, 09:17:28 AM
Its not uncommon that some will find that there are certain colors that you can hit with discharge that cannot be exactly replicated with std plastisols. Mainly due to the absence of fillers.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: mjrprint on May 16, 2012, 10:25:25 AM
Where are you guys getting your sericol from. I want to try it out.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: tonypep on May 16, 2012, 10:32:46 AM
Sericol........Fujifilms 800-255-4562. Dealers are just going to tack on $$ unless freight makes that make sense. This is the CS # that will point you to your closest Sericol rep
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ZooCity on May 16, 2012, 12:25:21 PM
Gathered some more intel and I'm leaning hard toward Sericol now. 

That's interesting by the way that a white solvent ink with a formaldehyde activator is certified organic GOTS, etc...what a world...seems there's a lot I don't know about chemistry or a lot that some groups are banking on people not knowing.  GOTS or no, white solvents and formaldehyde aren't super great items  to have around regarding long term exposure in the workplace but I think proper ventilation and makeup air will resolve the issue and we have good dryer chamber and general ventilation now and the option to do even more so I think I'm okay with it.

Thanks so far to all.  I gathered a little more info on Texcharge:

Sounds pretty good to me.  This system has been in use for I think it was 20 yrs. now so that's promising as well.

Has anyone hit a wall with the RFU system that can only be overcome with a PC system?
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: tonypep on May 16, 2012, 01:24:04 PM
With care I can boost Sericol w/ Oasis PC but it's very rare
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: jasonl on May 16, 2012, 01:44:12 PM
the atlanta rep is Marvin Foreman.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 16, 2012, 10:04:06 PM
Sericol has "halftone" colors in their lineup. What are these used for?
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 16, 2012, 10:11:49 PM
Sericol has "halftone" colors in their lineup. What are these used for?
I just looked at the colors and its blue, red, yellow and black. I wonder if this is their inks for cmyk
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ZooCity on May 17, 2012, 12:54:12 AM
I believe it is. 
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ebscreen on May 17, 2012, 12:04:48 PM
CCI Base and White, Rutland Pigments, Matsui modifiers.

Might be switching back to Rutland white and base though. CCI screwed
the pooch on an order of 25 gallons, and I had to get something in quick.


Gerry if you start selling supplies you've got my business. CCI makes great products
that are near impossible to get in any sort of decent fashion.



Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: tonypep on May 17, 2012, 01:26:28 PM
The ImageStar base and white from Nazdar is CCI under private label FYI......same thing
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on May 17, 2012, 01:31:21 PM
CCI Base and White, Rutland Pigments, Matsui modifiers.

Might be switching back to Rutland white and base though. CCI screwed
the pooch on an order of 25 gallons, and I had to get something in quick.


Gerry if you start selling supplies you've got my business. CCI makes great products
that are near impossible to get in any sort of decent fashion.
Was it CCI direct and our favorite rep?
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ebscreen on May 17, 2012, 02:15:59 PM
Tony:   I had wondered that. Awesome to know for sure, and my current supplier
not on my poop list carries it. I do like the Rutland White Plus though, seems like they
changed it up a bit since last time, and it has a grey/blue hue as opposed to the CCI
cream/yellow whatever color that is.

Gerry:  Yep. Gotta be a made up name. AOL email address = ugh.
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ZooCity on May 18, 2012, 05:40:06 PM
CCI Base and White, Rutland Pigments, Matsui modifiers.

Might be switching back to Rutland white and base though. CCI screwed
the pooch on an order of 25 gallons, and I had to get something in quick.


Gerry if you start selling supplies you've got my business. CCI makes great products
that are near impossible to get in any sort of decent fashion.

Interesting. Why the Rutland pigments specifically?
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on May 18, 2012, 05:52:31 PM
Sericol has "halftone" colors in their lineup. What are these used for?
I just looked at the colors and its blue, red, yellow and black. I wonder if this is their inks for cmyk
you need to look at the numbers as they do offer halftone colors used for process printing. I have some, have used them and had good results other than the screens drying in.. It was sugessted to not go above 230 mesh using these colors in a process application..
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: ZooCity on May 18, 2012, 05:56:25 PM
Sericol has "halftone" colors in their lineup. What are these used for?
I just looked at the colors and its blue, red, yellow and black. I wonder if this is their inks for cmyk
you need to look at the numbers as they do offer halftone colors used for process printing. I have some, have used them and had good results other than the screens drying in.. It was sugessted to not go above 230 mesh using these colors in a process application..

That's exciting.  I'd be willing to commit to separating for their process inks if they did a good job.   Those, plus the some of the other rfu colors as bumps could make for a very speedy pre-press on full color jobs if you had the variables worked out and an even faster print run. 
Title: Re: WB/Discharge Roll Call
Post by: patfinn on June 07, 2012, 09:58:44 AM
I've boosted my serial with pigments before.. Ver few and far between though