TSB
screen printing => Waterbase and Discharge => Topic started by: Mr Tees!! on May 23, 2012, 07:52:52 PM
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Hey gang..didnt want to ride the coattails of the previous topic, as it concerned a specific emulsion type.
...I have not been real pleased with the emulsion I am using for WB/discharge. I am currently using Xenon 903WR, using the Xenon hardener, blocking out with emulsion, post-exposing, all that stuff. The issue is that the stencil still gets "tacky" and the garment sticks to it, pulling it off the pallet. This is especially true in the areas where the ink wells up, like between the squeegee and the floodbar. I have, however, been totally pleased with this emulsion in all other aspects when using plastisol (price, exposure time, reclaimability, etc).
What I would like to see this thread become is a sort of user database of what products, methods, and suppliers you folks use for this. For instance,I have heard some of you mention adding extra diazo, what effects does that have, all around? How do you get more of it separately, and from where? How much extra do you add, is it a percentage? I would also be interested in coating techniques; I wonder if its better to have more stencil on the squeege side for durability?
Any comments GREATLY appreciated. Thanks gang!.... ;D
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peep this thread.
http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3818.0.html (http://www.theshirtboard.com/index.php/topic,3818.0.html)
I certainly don't mind you piling on. Plus the more attention it gets the better it serves EVERYONE!
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Thanks Gilly, I actually DID consider that list, which is quite informative. Trouble is, all but one is being used for plastisol. I was hoping to gather more info on discharge specifically, especially from the shops doing longer runs, or any shop that has the whole process nailed down tight, yknow?
...also, havent forgotten to get you that info on the dryer, its just been stupid ridiculous crazy here. Ill get it to ya, I promise.... ;)
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I knew you hadn't forgotten. I have not been in a rush yet either so no sweat.
I knew what you were after and I agree, the list isn't there yet... YET. It will take time and a bit of effort by everyone.
What we have so far is getting good... I'm just hoping more people get the time to dump some info into it.
Until then I'll just have to be that guy and bump it up from time to time because it will drop off the map and people will forget. :(
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guys -there was an awesome thread going on this with some of the big guys chiming in, not knocking yours gilly, but it was the king sh*t of emulsion info. . .let me see if I can hunt it down. .Mr. Courday made an appearance.
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ZERO offense taken... I'm the new kid on the block... I just was looking to get something all in one page without the need to read for days through various pages of thread post and between people talking about their favorite fish and the ways to cook it. ;)
If we could revive that thread and get those involved to input some data on the spreadsheet then we really could have a great resource for everyone.
That spreadsheet isn't "mine", it's everyone here's spreadsheet. I just got the ball rolling with it.
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I use the CCI 25WR with their hardenerX......both plastisol/waterbase
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...Thanks Tony! Knowing the sort of shops you work with, I assume you make pretty long runs with it? Does it get "tacky" too, and is that just inherent in the process? Are you using it as-is, or adding diazo or anything?
...TIA!!
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Aquasol HV with post exposure in the California Sunshine and Murakami's Hardener.
We're finishing up with a 27,000 piece discharge run on the same set of screens. We rinse
at end of day, dry, and start again.
We leave the screens flooded during lunch and double print a few tests before beginning production again.
The screens will get tacky and might lift a shirt, but this doesn't happen until 5,000 pieces or so.
The screens need to naturally exude some moisture, so some of it is inevitable, but shouldn't happen
for a long long time. I bet if we cleared the screen during lunch, wiped it out with water and let dry
that we wouldn't have it happen at all.
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Hey Sean, what kind of runs can you get out of it without the hardener? And where you getting it?
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The Xenon stuff? Or are you asking ebscreen? I'm a Sean too.... :D
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Whoops. Well Sean how long does the Xenon stuff hold up for? I know it's a cheap emulsion but cheap and discharge usually don't go hand in hand. Oh and I use the CCI WR25 without a hardener and it get moist after about 200 shirts.
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Lot of Shaeuwns become screenprinters. Weird.
Gerry we typically use hardener on anything over 150 pieces or so, or if
the design is tricky or warrants it. Sort of a gut feel thing, and cheap insurance.
I have not seen Aquasol (properly post/exposed) degrade from any quantity
of discharge.
I suspect part of the reason is the softer squeegees and lower angle used with
waterbased places less physical stress on the stencil.
Both emulsion and hardener come from Screen Printers Resource.
Also, I still have the exhaust stack for your dryer here. Just found it yesterday if you want
it.
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Lot of Shaeuwns become screenprinters. Weird.
Gerry we typically use hardener on anything over 150 pieces or so, or if
the design is tricky or warrants it. Sort of a gut feel thing, and cheap insurance.
I have not seen Aquasol (properly post/exposed) degrade from any quantity
of discharge.
I suspect part of the reason is the softer squeegees and lower angle used with
waterbased places less physical stress on the stencil.
Both emulsion and hardener come from Screen Printers Resource.
Also, I still have the exhaust stack for your dryer here. Just found it yesterday if you want
it.
Cool and hell yes I want it! Do you know how it is to run discharge in a 800 sq ft shop without exhausting the dryer in 95 degree weather? LOL!
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I use the CCI as is......it is a Diazo so it is added when opened. Important to post expose. That Aquasol/Murakami combo sounds like a winner as well. Never ran into that "lift off the shirt" issue though. Don't use spray tack though.
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Lot of Shaeuwns become screenprinters. Weird.
Gerry we typically use hardener on anything over 150 pieces or so, or if
the design is tricky or warrants it. Sort of a gut feel thing, and cheap insurance.
I have not seen Aquasol (properly post/exposed) degrade from any quantity
of discharge.
I suspect part of the reason is the softer squeegees and lower angle used with
waterbased places less physical stress on the stencil.
Both emulsion and hardener come from Screen Printers Resource.
Also, I still have the exhaust stack for your dryer here. Just found it yesterday if you want
it.
Cool and hell yes I want it! Do you know how it is to run discharge in a 800 sq ft shop without exhausting the dryer in 95 degree weather? LOL!
Whoa that has to be brutal!! Especially on the sinuses.
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We ran the gambit, of every emulsion out there for WB. Our final choice for long pot life, clean detailed stencils, even for halftones, long lasting on the press, and easy usage in coating as well as reclaiming, Ulano 925 WR. Expose, dry, spray both sides and wipe with CCI Harden X, for extra dotting of the I's and crossing of the t's, we will set in the sun for a few mins and have zero issues during runs. For block out, we found Kiwo Block Out WR has worked the best, and saves in the long run by not using your emulsion for blocking out. It dry's fast, does not need to be exposed and it lasts on press with no break down. We recently did a 1200 piece wet on wet Water based, and discharge job, had no break down of the emulsion on either screens, after job, washed out, inspected stencils and everything was still in tacked. Same expose method, block out, harden, post expose for us using CCI hybrid, Saati WR, Chroma line CPTex, and a couple others, all broke down after about 400 prints and we found ourselves having to burn duplicate set ups to get through jobs. Now with the Ulano 925 WR, no problems. I order it from Valley Litho, it's like 56 bucks a gallon vs high pricing at other Ulano dealers. Ulano 925 WR and using CCI discharge base, and CCI White Discharge has made printing Discharge welcome in our shop now!!!
Mike
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We ran the gambit, of every emulsion out there for WB. Our final choice for long pot life, clean detailed stencils, even for halftones, long lasting on the press, and easy usage in coating as well as reclaiming, Ulano 925 WR. Expose, dry, spray both sides and wipe with CCI Harden X, for extra dotting of the I's and crossing of the t's, we will set in the sun for a few mins and have zero issues during runs. For block out, we found Kiwo Block Out WR has worked the best, and saves in the long run by not using your emulsion for blocking out. It dry's fast, does not need to be exposed and it lasts on press with no break down. We recently did a 1200 piece wet on wet Water based, and discharge job, had no break down of the emulsion on either screens, after job, washed out, inspected stencils and everything was still in tacked. Same expose method, block out, harden, post expose for us using CCI hybrid, Saati WR, Chroma line CPTex, and a couple others, all broke down after about 400 prints and we found ourselves having to burn duplicate set ups to get through jobs. Now with the Ulano 925 WR, no problems. I order it from Valley Litho, it's like 56 bucks a gallon vs high pricing at other Ulano dealers. Ulano 925 WR and using CCI discharge base, and CCI White Discharge has made printing Discharge welcome in our shop now!!!
Mike
If you look in Valley's catalog, there is an emulsion that they claim is exactly like the 925 WR but the diazo is a powder instead of a liquid -or vise versa- so there isn't any extra handling charge or something? I think it said it out performs the 925 too. Can't find my catalog. I've got about 15 different emulsions here, I'm going to check out the aqua sol hv next.
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We ran the gambit, of every emulsion out there for WB. Our final choice for long pot life, clean detailed stencils, even for halftones, long lasting on the press, and easy usage in coating as well as reclaiming, Ulano 925 WR. Expose, dry, spray both sides and wipe with CCI Harden X, for extra dotting of the I's and crossing of the t's, we will set in the sun for a few mins and have zero issues during runs. For block out, we found Kiwo Block Out WR has worked the best, and saves in the long run by not using your emulsion for blocking out. It dry's fast, does not need to be exposed and it lasts on press with no break down. We recently did a 1200 piece wet on wet Water based, and discharge job, had no break down of the emulsion on either screens, after job, washed out, inspected stencils and everything was still in tacked. Same expose method, block out, harden, post expose for us using CCI hybrid, Saati WR, Chroma line CPTex, and a couple others, all broke down after about 400 prints and we found ourselves having to burn duplicate set ups to get through jobs. Now with the Ulano 925 WR, no problems. I order it from Valley Litho, it's like 56 bucks a gallon vs high pricing at other Ulano dealers. Ulano 925 WR and using CCI discharge base, and CCI White Discharge has made printing Discharge welcome in our shop now!!!
Mike
If you look in Valley's catalog, there is an emulsion that they claim is exactly like the 925 WR but the diazo is a powder instead of a liquid -or vise versa- so there isn't any extra handling charge or something? I think it said it out performs the 925 too. Can't find my catalog. I've got about 15 different emulsions here, I'm going to check out the aqua sol hv next.
We have used both the Aquasol HV and Ulano and they both work great. No breakdown on the Ulano so far. With discharge it pays to spend the extra coin on the best emulsion you can buy that works for you. If you miss a breakdown and it does not get caught until the other end of the dyer you just lost whatever you saved on a low cost substitute.
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Valley has never charged us extra fees for the Ulano 925wr with the gel.
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I figured they wouldn't but they said something about a UPS handling fee or something, I'll dig it up if I can remember. I found it odd. Love Vally though, great prices.
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I order our inkjet film, the Bab's film from them, and on those orders, I order any Union inks that we use since they are quite cheaper in price than any local distrubitor of Union, and then the Ulano 925. I want to say my last order with them was 2 packs of film, a 2 gallons of ink, and 2 gals of Ulano, the freight was like 25 bucks. That 25 bucks in freight was about the price difference in the cost of Union Maxopaque Scarlet red from Vally vs Tubelite. It makes it worth it. Not to mention the film. I love the Bab's film, $95 for 100 sheet packs of 17"x22" vs $150.00 or more for other 100 packs of the same size film. The Babs film works great with epson printers.
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I order our inkjet film, the Bab's film from them, and on those orders, I order any Union inks that we use since they are quite cheaper in price than any local distrubitor of Union, and then the Ulano 925. I want to say my last order with them was 2 packs of film, a 2 gallons of ink, and 2 gals of Ulano, the freight was like 25 bucks. That 25 bucks in freight was about the price difference in the cost of Union Maxopaque Scarlet red from Vally vs Tubelite. It makes it worth it. Not to mention the film. I love the Bab's film, $95 for 100 sheet packs of 17"x22" vs $150.00 or more for other 100 packs of the same size film. The Babs film works great with epson printers.
you should try brad from maverick graphics for your ink jet film. great product and sevice.
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you should try brad from maverick graphics for your ink jet film. great product and sevice.
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I'll check him out for sure brotha!
ps---lovin your personal text!! Amen brotha!!!
Mike
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x2 for Brad. . I've gone through about 4-6 boxes of his film. . .cool guy too.
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Do y'all remember when waterproof film was $200 for 100, 13x19 sheets? I pay $85 now.
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do you guys have a link for Brad at Maverick, when I googled it, I got male modeling links, don't need those :-\
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http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/ (http://www.maverickgraphicsupply.com/store/)
There ya go
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Thankya!
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Don't forget to enter the code TSB to get the "real" price. . .
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Ok, my modeling career is a thing of the past :) but the film thing seems to be going ok. I leave the modeling to my wife.
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Brad you should put a link to your website in your signature.
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Good idea. I just changed it.