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screen printing => Ink and Chemicals => Topic started by: Rockers on June 25, 2012, 11:28:11 AM

Title: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Rockers on June 25, 2012, 11:28:11 AM
We have been using CCI Microwash 2 in our dip tank but I can't see myself getting hooked on that stuff.
What's in your tank?
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Prosperi-Tees on June 25, 2012, 11:35:08 AM
Try the new CCI dip n strip. Love it.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Rockers on June 25, 2012, 11:49:37 AM
Try the new CCI dip n strip. Love it.
I was looking at the dip'n'strip just now. How many screens can you get recycled with one tank filling?
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Shawn (EIP) on June 25, 2012, 11:49:50 AM
I quit using the dip tank once the last batch expired CCI. I tried just for the hell of it to spray ink remover and emulsion remover at the same time , scrub it in and pressure wash it out. I'm reclaiming screens just as fast or at least it feels like it. I think I'm going to lay the dip to rest for awhile.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: jasonl on June 25, 2012, 12:36:15 PM
I quit using the dip tank once the last batch expired CCI. I tried just for the hell of it to spray ink remover and emulsion remover at the same time , scrub it in and pressure wash it out. I'm reclaiming screens just as fast or at least it feels like it. I think I'm going to lay the dip to rest for awhile.

And your roller frames WILL last longer, thats why I HATE dip tanks.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: alan802 on June 25, 2012, 01:12:55 PM
Easiway Supra.  We are about 600 screens into a fresh batch and it could use a recharge right now.

And we can reclaim about 20 screens an hour with the dip tank and 8-10 the old school way, it's not even close, plus we use a hell of a lot less chemical overall since we went dippin.
Title: What's in your dip tank
Post by: inkbrigade on June 25, 2012, 01:30:49 PM
We've tried some CCI and I hated it. We've been using the Fran Marr one step clear for like 3 to 4 years. It's awesome we get about 600 screens
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: jasonl on June 25, 2012, 02:08:02 PM
I reclaim an average of 22 screens an hour, the OLD SCHOOL WAY.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: alan802 on June 25, 2012, 02:14:50 PM
I reclaim an average of 22 screens an hour, the OLD SCHOOL WAY.

Thin stencils, high mesh counts?  If we had 230 and up with 20 micron stencils then we could do it, but not mid and low mesh.  It takes too long for the ER to break down thicker stencils with a spray bottle and scrubber, so while screens are soaking we are cleaning one.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Screened Gear on June 25, 2012, 03:07:12 PM
I would love to start a video post of everyone reclaiming screens. I know we could all learn a ton. Who wants to go first???
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: jasonl on June 25, 2012, 04:48:16 PM
I reclaim an average of 22 screens an hour, the OLD SCHOOL WAY.

Thin stencils, high mesh counts?  If we had 230 and up with 20 micron stencils then we could do it, but not mid and low mesh.  It takes too long for the ER to break down thicker stencils with a spray bottle and scrubber, so while screens are soaking we are cleaning one.

spray bottle and scrub pad, what?  I use a garden sprayer 110 to 305 mesh coated 2/1.  No problems.  It really depends on how much u dilute the concentrate.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: alan802 on June 25, 2012, 05:36:41 PM
I reclaim an average of 22 screens an hour, the OLD SCHOOL WAY.

Thin stencils, high mesh counts?  If we had 230 and up with 20 micron stencils then we could do it, but not mid and low mesh.  It takes too long for the ER to break down thicker stencils with a spray bottle and scrubber, so while screens are soaking we are cleaning one.

spray bottle and scrub pad, what?  I use a garden sprayer 110 to 305 mesh coated 2/1.  No problems.  It really depends on how much u dilute the concentrate.

We've used chemicals that you dilute and some you don't, it's pretty much all the same.  We know how to reclaim, I'm simply saying it's impossible to clean 22 of our screens in an hour with any other method other than a dip tank, that's why we use it.  Not one of the 10+ emulsion removers we've used over the years will break down the emulsion fast enough to reclaim that many screens an hour, just simple chemistry based on emulsion type and thickness at our shop.  A 2/1 coating method with some emulsions will give you thin stencils, so I can see how it's possible.  But a 70 micron stencil literally takes 3 times longer to break down than a 20 micron stencil.  Our 230's reclaim in a minute with the dip tank versus a 110 that takes 10 minutes or more with a messy screen.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: jasonl on June 25, 2012, 05:41:37 PM
i can see that, my 2/2 with waterbase emulsion is more difficult.  Dip tank would make it easier if you had superthick stencils.   Guess every shop is different.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: chubsetc on June 25, 2012, 06:21:56 PM
I am using Supra in my tank but feel it doesn't do a great job breaking down ink, I always clean the ink first then dip to reclaim the stencil, am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: brandon on June 25, 2012, 08:18:44 PM
Franmar all the way. Thanks Ink Brigade! We just got about 4/5 months out of 15 gallons for three presses. 60 screens a day easy if not way more
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: alan802 on June 26, 2012, 10:19:30 AM
I am using Supra in my tank but feel it doesn't do a great job breaking down ink, I always clean the ink first then dip to reclaim the stencil, am I doing something wrong?

Nope, it just doesn't have the ink degradent properties that you'd think.  I've used probably 6 different dip tank chems that were for ink and emulsion breakdown and none of them have done much to the plastisol ink.  It's better to hit the ink with something like Easiway 701, scrub it for a few seconds and spray away with water, then put in the dip tank.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: chubsetc on June 26, 2012, 11:30:30 AM
I am using Supra in my tank but feel it doesn't do a great job breaking down ink, I always clean the ink first then dip to reclaim the stencil, am I doing something wrong?

Nope, it just doesn't have the ink degradent properties that you'd think.  I've used probably 6 different dip tank chems that were for ink and emulsion breakdown and none of them have done much to the plastisol ink.  It's better to hit the ink with something like Easiway 701, scrub it for a few seconds and spray away with water, then put in the dip tank.

Well it's good to know I'm not an idiot, well at least in this case!  Thanks
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: ebscreen on June 26, 2012, 12:31:16 PM
Nope, it just doesn't have the ink degradent properties that you'd think.  I've used probably 6 different dip tank chems that were for ink and emulsion breakdown and none of them have done much to the plastisol ink.  It's better to hit the ink with something like Easiway 701, scrub it for a few seconds and spray away with water, then put in the dip tank.


Which is exactly the reason we ditched the all-in-wonders and go for just an emulsion remover. CCI GemZyne is $40 for my 37 gallon tank and lasts
a seemingly long time.

Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: screenprintguy on June 26, 2012, 12:47:54 PM
we use SPA ink/emulsionremover, same original fill from 2 and a half years ago. Once a month we drain the tank down to containers, clean out the solids, put the fluid back in, and top it off, it never loses it's strength. Stuff is awesome, and cheap from Screen Process of Alabama.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: snuggles on June 29, 2012, 09:50:13 AM
I have been using the easiway dip tank products for years...first the easistrip then the SUPRA (more concentrated)  these products last forever!!! And I love the fact they are green.  I tried all the others and they die in the tank before I even get to the 3 month point. 
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: screenprintguy on June 29, 2012, 10:00:36 AM
That's what we love about the SPA products, they never lose potency, we used to use Easyway, but the SPA was more cost effective and is also "green", both suppliers are great
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: alan802 on June 30, 2012, 05:49:01 PM
Damn Mike, that is impressive that the chem can last like that.  I've had my guy keep numbers on how many screens he's reclaimed with the latest tank refill and we are at 700 screens.  That's not bad but if I can find a chemical that all I have to do is recharge every once in a while then that's obviously better than what we are doing now.  Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Rockers on July 05, 2012, 05:55:09 AM
We've tried some CCI and I hated it. We've been using the Fran Marr one step clear for like 3 to 4 years. It's awesome we get about 600 screens
At least I can say for sure that CCI Microwash 2 won`t be in our dip tank for much longer. It just stopped having any effect on the emulsion, after maybe 150 screens and 2 1/2 month in the tank it`s a pretty bad performance.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: screenprintguy on July 05, 2012, 11:23:42 AM
@--Alan----- I know what you mean man. We were told when we first got set up with it that we would push it if we went past 10 months, but here we are on the same original stuff. I think the major thing is that we drain the tank, remove the gunk, wash the tank, and then re-pour the solution and top it off. Another thing we do, is we don't let the screens sit in the tank long enough to make everything come off in the tank. The strength of the SPA ink/emulsion remover is strong enough that after 3-5 minutes of soak, the emulsion layers are still on the screen, but are liquified when the pressure washer hits them. My guy Scott has a rhythm, working with 3 screens at a time. If he hits a stubborn screen, say one that got hit with hardener and tape glue all over it, he will hit it with the pressure washer to get as much off quickly and set it aside to keep the flow going with the others. We are about to do another gunk flush and top off this weekend. I just ordered another 5 gall of SPA ink/emulsion remover, it's $144.00 for the 5 gal, great stuff!!
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on July 05, 2012, 12:53:49 PM
we use easi-strip..works great
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Gilligan on July 05, 2012, 10:18:02 PM
... If he hits a stubborn screen, say one that got hit with hardener and tape glue all over it, he will hit it with the pressure washer to get as much off quickly and set it aside to keep the flow going with the others...

Explain this further, where does he put it, I'm missing something because I'd be concerned about emulsion locking in with reclaimer sitting on it and drying up.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: screenprintguy on July 06, 2012, 09:47:57 AM
If a screen is stubborn, do what you can with the pressure washer but once you've rinsed all of the reclaimer off of it and emulsion is still locked on, it's not really going to make much of a difference. Better to set that one aside rather than spending 30 mins on 1 screen and potentially locking up a few others that are dripping. We have a rail that we attached to a wall that can hold up to 5 frames. It's angled so we pull screens out of the tank, set them on the rail, the top side of the frame is leaning on the wall, the rail angles down into the tank so that the chemical runs down the rail back into the tank, helps lesson the mess and conserve chemical. Like I said he works with 3 so by the time he's shot the emulsion off of 1, 2 is dripped down enough to move to the booth. When he get's to the 3'd screen on the rail, he dips 3 more screens in the tank. It's a pretty smooth system. Once in a blue moon we will hit a stubborn screen that maybe tape glue came off on, say if you used blue tape to block out with, that stuff will leave residue after a couple days on the screen, the glue keeps the reclaimer from getting to the emulsion so it needs more attention. Rinse that bad boy off and move on to keep the flow moving forward. People have their systems, this has really worked out efficient for us, not only on the output, but on the cost as well.

Happy Friday!!

Mike
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Gilligan on July 06, 2012, 10:37:19 AM
I gotcha.

Hey, I'm not knocking anyone... I'm observing and taking notes on all of this so when I get my tank I can start working as efficiently as you guys!
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: screenprintguy on July 06, 2012, 11:15:15 AM
I hear ya Gil. I was originally told, oh, you'll have to do a total change over of chems every 6-12 months. Do the math, on a big tank, that's alot of money. We don't dilute the chems, so it's 40 gals of straight chem in there, kind of expensive to change over. So we decided, let's test it out, see how it goes, and when it loses it's potency, empty and start fresh. Haven't had to do that yet, just clean the gunk out ever couple months, and then top it off. If it starts to take 10 mins to break down emulsion on a screen, then we will know it's time to start from fresh, but so far, 2 and a half years down the road, and the process we have been using is working issue free. I think the key is good solution, and keep the tank from building up too much gunk at the bottom with a fresh top off, that's what's working for us.  ;D
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: RICK STEFANICK on July 06, 2012, 02:15:47 PM
I have been using the easiway dip tank products for years...first the easistrip then the SUPRA (more concentrated)  these products last forever!!! And I love the fact they are green.  I tried all the others and they die in the tank before I even get to the 3 month point.
that is exactly what we have been using but im going out on a limb and ordered some franmar one step clear for this round in the tank. we'll see i guess
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: tancehughes on July 06, 2012, 05:55:02 PM
I'd say we ran around 1,000 screens before we cleaned out the tank, maybe more maybe less. Anyways, here's what we dug out today..

Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Mr Tees!! on July 06, 2012, 07:51:49 PM
...on a whim, I tried just mixing in a pound container of reclaim crystals (used to be about $35) into my 14G gal with water, and it worked just fine. Way cheaper, needless to say. All that drivel about "a little bit of surfactant to loosen the ink a bit" is nonsense, I think (or a way to sell and ship you water, essentially).

...Trouble is, now the reclaiming crystals are nearly impossible to come by. My supplier first tripled the price, then quit carrying it entirely. My rep said it had something to do with sodium metaperiodate being used to somehow combat radiation in Japan, where the earthquake/tsunami caused all that trouble at the nuclear plant there.
Title: Re: What's in your dip tank
Post by: Rockers on July 06, 2012, 08:37:12 PM
Didn`t you hear, the final report about the nuclear meltdown here in Japan states that the accident was mainly due to human error. Which is very convenient considering the government is about to restart some reactors again. Anyway let`s hope that we won`t have any more meltdowns and that those reclaim crystals wil be back in stock soon.