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screen printing => General Screen Printing => Topic started by: jason-23 on June 28, 2012, 10:23:11 AM
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I reclaim screens maybe once a week and it seems that the day after I get a sore throat. I use strip-e- doo and bean-e-doo to reclaim with. Should I be using a particulate mask or respirator? The pressure washing atomizes the products and Im surely inhaling them.
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That happened to me with those same products. Out the door they went. Wearing some sort of respiratory protection is a good idea however simple dust mask do not block or filter out fumes. They only stop particulates and not the vapor.
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So what products are you using now?
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This may sound over simplistic, but how about merely not inhaling while directly over a screen if brushing it on, or likewise, when blasting, if not a reasonable distance away?
I don't use those particular products, but all reclaiming liquids that I've seen are darn similar, varying only in strength, (though I am not familiar with any bean-based products which breakdown emulsion)
If this is all true, then there is a certain irony to the "all natural safe alternative" being more harmful than the nasty stuff.
As some of you may know from my oft repeated history, I actually was a full time screen cleaner for more years than I care to remember, and like so many things regarding printing technique, some things just come naturally, and are difficult to quantify.
I definitely notice the odor and potential "sting" of the reclaiming liquid, but apparently have learned to really minimize its effect with no respirator. I don't even know what the standard industry recommendation is.
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I use Murikami. That is the emulsion we use now and it works good for us. It also works on Ulano, Kiwo, and CCI. I have gone through a lot of different chems looking for the least offensive smells and side effects. If I dont want to breath it then I do not want my guys in the shop doing it either.
When I clean screens I do like Frog says. I minimize the atomizing of the chemicals as much as possible to avoid inhaling that crap.
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CCI and put an exhaust fan by your side of a fan blowing on you. I had this problem with easisolve ink cleaner..
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I use ICC and plus I clean outside in back of our shop and I still get a good wiff of clems at times, being in a close area I would have a good exhuast fan to pull flumes out.
D
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Minimizing exposure is definitely the easiest step to implement.
I use a 3M particulate/carbon filter mask--#8247--it helps with the mist as well as the vapors. They are not not heavy duty--but even nasty chemicals are much less noticeable with it.
Even if chemicals don't 'irritate' you, that doesn't mean they are good for you...
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screen foo is right. if OSHA came in they would fine your butt for that.
I have 2 options available for my guys, either eyewear with a 3m mask, or a full face "gas mask." Their choice.
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Actually, if OSHA came out, they wouldn't do a heckuva lot to a small shop with no employees like Jason's.
And when, sufficient full face masks and goggles are made available to employees in larger shops, many would need to be forced to wear them.
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I cut a hole in the roof of our booth and put an 8" turbo duct blower to exhaust any fumes from the booth, it works awesome. If it's not on, you can really tell the difference. We use SPA chems and beenie doo and that with the exhausting allows our reclaim guy to spend full days back there without any fumes.
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screen foo is right. if OSHA came in they would fine your butt for that.
I have 2 options available for my guys, either eyewear with a 3m mask, or a full face "gas mask." Their choice.
"gas masks" or respirators have some issues too - the employee has to be checked by a doctor to make sure that they are fit to wear one. resistance from the filters can cause some persons to not breathe normally, preventing them from getting enough oxygen.
our guys use a face shield - they preferred it to goggles. safety glasses dont protect against splashes. we also have reusable and disposable aprons. elbow length gloves too...
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Actually, if OSHA came out, they wouldn't do a heckuva lot to a small shop with no employees like Jason's.
Stop it frog, I am trying to scare him into taking better care of himself. ;)
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Two chemicals I use that raise hell with me is EasiSolv 701 and Renuit haze remover. I'll get irritation in my throat from the 701. I can't even breathe with the Renuit when I hit the screen with the pressure washer.
I use a 3M respirator I got at Home Depot. They run about $40. Worth the money.
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Update!!! I have developed a high grade fever of 103.5,and a super sore throat, went the doctor and I tested positive for strep throat. I asked the doc about the chemical exposer and he said you have strep and the chemicals irratated the strep in my throat. So know I'm stuck on the ezchair, sucking down fluids, ibuprofen, Tylenol and he put me on a z-pac.
I am a one man show and that's the bitch of it all, I'm super busy and unable to work due to the fever and dizziness. Thank God that my clients are very understanding and want me to get well. Hopefully I'll be feeling better by tommorow so I can push some ink around.
But I still get a sore throat from reclaiming. My home made washout booth is shighty at best and I think my neighbors would freak out if they saw me wearing a full on "time for your shower" gas mask...lol! I really don't need a visit from city code or anything. Freaking washout booths are feaking expensive for what they are, I just can't afford a $400 hit for a freaking sink and that's a cheap one from Ranar. My spine crawls everytime when I see a city truck or an unidentified car drive by. I really don't know If I'm breaking any laws or city codes and I don't want to know or inquirer about it at this time.
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I'd try some of the other suggestions given here.
I've got a medium size booth and there is still some spray and vapor issues.
Didn't want you to put too much importance on one.
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hell, a small booth may well concentrate the bad stuff more than the old place at my old place, outdoors, against a chain link fence! lol
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Ventilate your booth, that's the best solution, it will also help get rid of humidity in your screen room.
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So, do we have any kind of product that is more "green" available to where we do not have this bad of a chemical? I asked for a more "green product' and this is what I was sold.
I have ELITE Extra Stencil Remover and EASY STRIP. Both say,
SWALLOWING: Ingestion may cause sore throat and abdominal discomfort.
INHALATION: Inhalation of mist may cause irritation of the nose and throat with coughing or discomfort.
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The SPA chems , which are actually re-labled Chor-Chem are not bad on the strong smelling side. the actual dip tank solution for ink/emulsion remover has no smell. the de-haze, degrease solution actually has a sweet smell, get ready to laugh, reminds me of bathroom air freshener. Now, we do have that turbo exhaust fan we have ported into our booth helps it from getting overwhelming, but out of all of the "green" solutions we have used, these have proven to be the best for us. My reclaim guy knocks out about 100-120 full on reclaims a week, he only comes in 2, 4 hour shifts. The system we have locked in, for us, has become very efficient, and we end up with stain free, oil free, very clean clean frames ect. Tanner Smith at Screen Process of Alabama really helped us dial in an earth friendly, easy to use, safe set up.
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The most common reclaim/emulsion removers are sodium metaperiodate. What are the green alternatives?
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according to the reps, citrus and soy
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That explains why I had trouble with my screen after spilling my lemonade and chow mein on it! ;D
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hahahahahahhahahahha, that citrus isa killa. have a great weekend Frog!!
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Freaking washout booths are feaking expensive for what they are, I just can't afford a $400 hit for a freaking sink and that's a cheap one from Ranar. My spine crawls everytime when I see a city truck or an unidentified car drive by. I really don't know If I'm breaking any laws or city codes and I don't want to know or inquirer about it at this time.
Get a double-basin utility sink from Home Depot and cut out the partition. Build a framework around it and use some of that corrugated plastic that people use for greenhouses to form up the three sides. Works pretty good. Half the price of a purpose-made one.
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I'd add to that excellent suggestion--if you have a re-source or habitat for humanity type of place in the area, a used shower bottom ran $40--I built a washout booth years ago for around a hundred bucks worth of stuff.
But I should make the disclaimer--I like making stuff. :)
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I cut a hole in the roof of our booth and put an 8" turbo duct blower to exhaust any fumes from the booth, it works awesome. If it's not on, you can really tell the difference. We use SPA chems and beenie doo and that with the exhausting allows our reclaim guy to spend full days back there without any fumes.
Could you share some more details about this exhaust fan? I'm about to get a booth that has an exhaust port and was looking forward to making it work but had no clue what I was gonna get to do that.
Thanks!
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Gil, most HVAC supply shops, or even the local hardware store will have in-duct fans for sale, add a few elbows and some straight duct and you're in business. I'd also recommend a one-way flap on the outside vent to prevent drafts from coming back in when you don't want them.
Some of the inline duct fans are available with variable speed control, which is a nice option for some applications. I run that on my dryer vent and can dial in enough air flow to keep the oven shell cool and/or remove fumes when using graphic inks without sucking too much air out of the shop or causing the ovn to over compensate for being over-cooled.
These work okay,
(http://www.single-family-home-remodeling.com/images/duct-fan-large.jpg)
but don't move as much air as tumbler cage style:
(http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-picgroup/30192303.jpg)
Another option is a squirrel cage blower from a furnace, these move a ton of air, in many cases they may move to much air, but imo for venting a wash-out tank you want to move as much as possible to counter-act the blast-back and vaporization a pressure washer causes..
(not my picture)
(http://www.willowridgestudio.com/images/SquirrelCageTight.JPG)
These move a lot of air, and some are available in 4-5 speed configurations, but require a bit of fabrication to run a duct in the round side for air-draw and going from the rectangular blower port back to round if you need to run duct to the exhaust exit. the one in the picture appears to be for removing heat from near the ceiling, which is very effective to help keep a shop cool. i run something like that in my shop.
Cheers,
jon
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Gil, most HVAC supply shops, or even the local hardware store will have in-duct fans for sale, add a few elbows and some straight duct and you're in business. I'd also recommend a one-way flap on the outside vent to prevent drafts from coming back in when you don't want them.
Cheers,
jon
And critters! There are plenty of stories about pigeons apparently trying to join the workforce ending up maimed or roasted or both in dryer vents.
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Thanks for the follow up.
I've got quite a few plans for my duct work and figured I'd need something at the end to assist even though my dryer vent would be a fairly short and straight run (one 90).
I want to do a radiator inside the duct (appropriately sized to not cause too much restriction) that I would circulate (thermal siphon) to a storage tank for washing out screens. I'll be plumbing a portable AC unit's exhuast in there as well.
I'm guessing some Y's should keep things from back feeding and keep things moving.
I also have a couple of extra large squirrel cage fans... I'm wondering if I put one in front of the Y coming from my dryer would it work to siphon out the heat from the dryer as well or do you think it might push against the air coming out of the dryer?
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Sorry Gil, this is the booth we have, we cut a hole in the upper left side of the top to duct in the duct and the other image is the blower that we use. So far the set up has lasted 6 years and still tickin'.
(http://ak.buy.com/PI/0/500/226437560.jpg)
(http://www.coastgraphicsupply.com/images/WOB2StandWFU1.jpg)
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Thanks for the follow up.
I've got quite a few plans for my duct work and figured I'd need something at the end to assist even though my dryer vent would be a fairly short and straight run (one 90).
I want to do a radiator inside the duct (appropriately sized to not cause too much restriction) that I would circulate (thermal siphon) to a storage tank for washing out screens. I'll be plumbing a portable AC unit's exhuast in there as well.
I'm guessing some Y's should keep things from back feeding and keep things moving.
I also have a couple of extra large squirrel cage fans... I'm wondering if I put one in front of the Y coming from my dryer would it work to siphon out the heat from the dryer as well or do you think it might push against the air coming out of the dryer?
For my money, you want to be able to attenuate the air flow out of the oven, too much and you can be in trouble, not enough and it gets hot and hazy inside. In my shop we run everything from pad-print to lexan-graphic to glass/ceramic/metal to garments through the oven, so being able to dial it in is a real asset. Heck being able to dial it down and enjoy the ambient heat in the winter is great being in the frozen North ;D. For garment-only finding the right flow and leaving it there is probably fine. You can do that by a blast-gate, or by a dump that allows air-intake somewhere else on the line to lessen what you get down-stream. Blast gates are great, but if you are rally toning down how much suction you have you can end up creating a vacuum for the bolwer and over-rev it. A vacuum dump up by the ceiling is a great way to cool down most shops.
Out of the wash-out booth it's hard to have too much air flow as long as it's not sucking in you glasses, hat, small people etc. I'd look at a dedicated line to one of your big squirrel cages, and run the oven through a fan you can turn down a bit on a separate line.
I run the same one as screenprintguy on my oven, they come in a variety of air-flows and duct diameters, for an extra 30-40 I was able to get the speed control rheostat system, which requires a minor-rewire in the fan control box. it's whisper silent at the speeds we run it, and barely audible at full speed.
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Gil, most HVAC supply shops, or even the local hardware store will have in-duct fans for sale, add a few elbows and some straight duct and you're in business. I'd also recommend a one-way flap on the outside vent to prevent drafts from coming back in when you don't want them.
Cheers,
jon
And critters! There are plenty of stories about pigeons apparently trying to join the workforce ending up maimed or roasted or both in dryer vents.
Lol. About 15 years ago we came into the pad-print shop one morning and the workers were freaked right out. There was an awful screeching/moaning/wailing sound from the ventilation system. it sounded like a rabid Raccoon or something. We traced it down to the squirrel cage at the bottom on the wall. Wearing welder gloves, a full face mask and heavy jacket my co-worker waited with an old fishing net. i slowly undid the duct work and we found........................-------------->!
........A tiny little kitten, that had been in there overnight, peed and gotten all mucked up in the dust/dirt in the squirrel cage for years. Boy did the ductwork amplify his little wails. We washed him off and cleaned him up and I took him to a good friends house. He had him for over to 10 years, a great cat as far as cats go....named Dusty of course.
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according to the reps, citrus and soy
Actually it is Soy and Water Based. Citrus is not necessarily "green" It is better than solvent based chemicals such as mineral spirits.